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In truth to these rumors? What have ya heard?

Germany, and the German public, have been getting somewhat angst y over the continuing Greek saga - they don't want to bankroll propping up another country. The issue lies in that Greece being a Euro member is threatening to derail the currency and spoil it for the rest of the Euro-zone countries, who also don't want to bankroll propping up the Greek economy. There has been some quite hard-line rhetoric coming out of Germany with reference to the austerity measures that the Greek government needs to introduce to 'prove' they are responsible enough before they will get a financial bail-out. In turn, this has sparked huge riots in Athens from Greeks who don't want pay cuts and job losses. A further knock on to this is continuing uncertainty in the currency and financial markets over whether Greece will get a bail out and whether they can actually afford to pay back their loans. This situation is also mirrored in Portugal, who are close to 'doing a Greece' and Spain and Italy, who have seen their credit rating fall.

All in all, the richer and slightly more stable Euro countries are worried about having to bail out 'lesser' countries in order to preserve the stability of the currency and the financial markets. It's a very real possibility that the Euro may collapse.

filbert wrote:Germany, and the German public, have been getting somewhat angst y over the continuing Greek saga - they don't want to bankroll propping up another country. The issue lies in that Greece being a Euro member is threatening to derail the currency and spoil it for the rest of the Euro-zone countries, who also don't want to bankroll propping up the Greek economy. There has been some quite hard-line rhetoric coming out of Germany with reference to the austerity measures that the Greek government needs to introduce to 'prove' they are responsible enough before they will get a financial bail-out. In turn, this has sparked huge riots in Athens from Greeks who don't want pay cuts and job losses. A further knock on to this is continuing uncertainty in the currency and financial markets over whether Greece will get a bail out and whether they can actually afford to pay back their loans. This situation is also mirrored in Portugal, who are close to 'doing a Greece' and Spain and Italy, who have seen their credit rating fall.

All in all, the richer and slightly more stable Euro countries are worried about having to bail out 'lesser' countries in order to preserve the stability of the currency and the financial markets. It's a very real possibility that the Euro may collapse.

I hope it does... I want my bloody guilders back!

The current financial troubles have really cast a light on just how jolly difficult it is to balance interest rates across such widely disparate economies.

I assume they want to not be tied to countries that are tanking. Wouldn't be suprised.

After all the lovely EU economic mergers, now that we truly have a crisis on our hands, the stronger economies want no part in the dealings of the ones that are not doing so good. They probably want to go back to the good 'ole days when their currencies were tied to nothing but themselves and whatever they controlled rather than a collective system:






Ahh...the good 'ole days where franks almost conquered the world and germans almost conquered the world.

Well...maybe not that far back...

If the euro failed we would be talking rioting, mass migration, starvation and so on, right? I'm not an economist but I imagine it would be catastrophic for pretty much everyone?

Soup and a roll wrote:If the euro failed we would be talking rioting, mass migration, starvation and so on, right? I'm not an economist but I imagine it would be catastrophic for pretty much everyone?

Why?

Soup and a roll wrote:If the euro failed we would be talking rioting, mass migration, starvation and so on, right? I'm not an economist but I imagine it would be catastrophic for pretty much everyone?

Probably not as bad as that - there would be turmoil for sure, but countries wouldn't collapse by any means. Coming out of the Euro is probably no worse to the turbulence suffered when the countries first joined up to the Euro.

This is going to get interesting to watch.

We should set up deck chairs on the cliffs of Dover and sell tickets. Booking will be accepted in pounds sterling only, no Euros please.

Cameron had quickly shown he has a pair within three days of taking office using the word 'veto' when meeting the German Chancellor the first time as Prime Minister on connected issues.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7133106.ece


Merkels face tell you all you need to know.

And to think Gordo and Cleggy wanted to take us into this crud. Its good timing for Tories, it means easy concessions on Europe in the coalition, Clegg has no choice but to eat monetary humble pie. I do have a lot of sympathy for tghe Germans at this moment, but I am glad we got this right, supporters of continuing with the pound have been under a lot of flak.

Frazzled wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:If the euro failed we would be talking rioting, mass migration, starvation and so on, right? I'm not an economist but I imagine it would be catastrophic for pretty much everyone?

Why?

Because it is expensive to change a currency so it would encourage spending cuts, unemployment and so on? Maybe starvation is a bit much, but like I said, I'm no economist.

Or it would be the kessel that forces the craptacular economies to get their act together and get rid of thecradle to grave social welfare systems.

Frazzled wrote:Or it would be the kessel that forces the craptacular economies to get their act together and get rid of thec radle to grave social welfare systems.

Hey, I like the fact that these social welfare systems pay for the cradle that gets crammed into the grave and then gets paves over by a low incoming housing complex.

Is that the Kessel run? Just under 12 parsecs in my opinion.

I find this funny the Gerries and Frogs have been trying to control European affairs for a few centuries. They finally forge something like it and they bottle it as soon as the cracks appears.

Anyone for Cricket?

Send in my Cadian 9th Irregulars. Well sort Greece out and collapse the Euro simultaneously.

Can you kick a nation out of the EU for being fail?

Like surely thats easier then bailing them out.

Also because of the title, and the fact how france hasn't even turned up in this thread yet..

WarOne wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Or it would be the kessel that forces the craptacular economies to get their act together and get rid of thec radle to grave social welfare systems.

Hey, I like the fact that these social welfare systems pay for the cradle that gets crammed into the grave and then gets paves over by a low incoming housing complex.

Frazzled wrote:Or it would be the kessel that forces the craptacular economies to get their act together and get rid of thecradle to grave social welfare systems.

That's my hope.

Truth is Greece is a tiny country with a very small economy

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:GRC&dl=en&hl=en&q=GDP+Greece

Germany's economy is much larger.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=countryEU&dl=en&hl=en&q=GDP+Germany

From another perspective the Greek annual GDP is about what the UK has spent bailing out some banks over the past 18 months.

The Germans could afford to bail out Greece if they wanted too, but why should they? The Greeks got themselves into this mess by bad financial management and wide-spread corruption.

If the Greek economy collapsed the hit to the Euro would be minor in real terms but major in psychology terms.

Always remember that money is a convenient fiction which works because enough people believe in it, so the psychology is important.

If the Greek economy collapsed the hit to the Euro would be minor in real terms but major in psychology terms.

A run on european banks would not be a minor impact.

In truth to these rumors? What have ya heard?

That's a major economic policy shift and those are democratic governments. These are purely speculative rumors based outside of empirical evidence. It would take years of debate and talks to actually do something of this sort and nothing of that kind has occurred yet.

The rioting over in Greece are by government employees that are also unionized. The "bailout" for the EU came from the IMF, and it was used to help bailout the entire EU. No one country in the EU could afford to bailout the Greeks, so they got a loan.

If Spain bellies up, say goodbye to the Euro and the EU.

Stormrider wrote:The rioting over in Greece are by government employees that are also unionized. The "bailout" for the EU came from the IMF, and it was used to help bailout the entire EU. No one country in the EU could afford to bailout the Greeks, so they got a loan.

If Spain bellies up, say goodbye to the Euro and the EU.

IIRC less than a third of the bailout for greece came from the IMF.

Interestingly:
Italy becomes latest to release austerity measures
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5608422,00.html

Stormrider wrote:The rioting over in Greece are by government employees that are also unionized. The "bailout" for the EU came from the IMF, and it was used to help bailout the entire EU. No one country in the EU could afford to bailout the Greeks, so they got a loan.

If Spain bellies up, say goodbye to the Euro and the EU.

Actually, most of the loan came from and will come from the EU:

"The program approved by the IMF’s Board makes about €5.5 billion immediately available to Greece from the Fund as part of joint financing with the European Union, for a combined €20.0 billion in immediate financial support. In 2010, total IMF financing will amount to about €10 billion and will be partnered with about €30.0 billion committed by the EU. The joint financing means that Greece will not have to tap international financial markets until 2012, Lipsky said, providing a breathing space for Greece to get its economy back on track."

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2010/NEW050910A.htm

This is the crux of the matter; Germany have a vested interest in not seeing Greece fail - they have a large portion of loans riding on it, hence why the financial sector are so concerned as to whether they will be able to pay the loans and debts back. The riots in Greece were a direct result of the proposed austerity measures that the Greek government felt they had to implement to prove they had the situation under control enough to receive the IMF/EU loan.

Spain has only had it's credit rating downgraded; Portugal is in a much more precarious state.

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Germans could afford to bail out Greece if they wanted too, but why should they? The Greeks got themselves into this mess by bad financial management and wide-spread corruption.

If the Greek economy collapsed the hit to the Euro would be minor in real terms but major in psychology terms.

Always remember that money is a convenient fiction which works because enough people believe in it, so the psychology is important.

Good points.

But:
We have to , cause we contribute 25% of the EU's finance.
And we got merkel. She and her fellow eurocrats Can't afford to loose the euro.

Shall we (germany, france ) join Liechtenstein and return to the old borders from 12th century?

Well, it's only a matter of time before they take you guys over.

1hadhq wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Germans could afford to bail out Greece if they wanted too, but why should they? The Greeks got themselves into this mess by bad financial management and wide-spread corruption.

If the Greek economy collapsed the hit to the Euro would be minor in real terms but major in psychology terms.

Always remember that money is a convenient fiction which works because enough people believe in it, so the psychology is important.

Good points.

But:
We have to , cause we contribute 25% of the EU's finance.
And we got merkel. She and her fellow eurocrats Can't afford to loose the euro.

Shall we (germany, france ) join Liechtenstein and return to the old borders from 12th century?

Your current measures seem pretty well thought out so far, though you should eventually just conglomerate into a statehood.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Well, it's only a matter of time before they take you guys over.

Yes, we all know that, against the Great Evil that is Leichtenstein, there can be no victory.

There is no escape from the Landespolizei!!!

Kilkrazy wrote:
Shall we (germany, france ) join Liechtenstein and return to the old borders from 12th century?

Why not. Hand back Normandy you Frenchies!

So, if the Euro currency tanks it with the probs in Greece and Spain, and the US Dollar doing meh, won't the global economy go straight into the sh!tter? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. To make things a bit worse, the economy here is a facade anyway.

Second part of the W.