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Thats right! as of now GW stores have an early edition of the 8th edition rule book and are telling customers some of the changes.


Here are some of the major changes as provided by Warseer and improved by recent talks with GW red shirts. DISCUSS!

Their is a limit now as to what you are allowed to take.

Your army, based on the point limit, must contain

25% maximum point cost Lords and Heroes
25% minimum point cost Core
25% maximum point cost Rares
25% maximum point costs Specials

For example if you are playing a 1000 point game

You must have at least 250 points worth of core.
But for every other type of unit, you can only spend 250 points.

MOVEMENT

Single models have a 180 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 90 degrees arc of sight

Standard Movement
Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform).
(edit: It seems I am very close with this, the champion one is only by process of deduction. Still awaiting further confirmation on all this)

Standard Bearer = Re-roll one of the charging dice
Musician = At the end of their movement phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free.
Champion = ?

(edit: As it has caused some confusion, these are all only additions to what all the command models currently do)


Failed Charge
You move basic movement only.


Fliers
Move 10 " and march 20 ". They ignore terrain whilst moving. While fleeing or pursuing, they use their ground movement. (note: the ground movement part may not be entirely correct)

Fast Cavalry
Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game, but cannot charge an enemy in the first turn, and cannot end their movement within 12”.

Fleeing/Pursuing
Fleeing/pursuit is rolled for the same way as charging. Units fleeing through impassable terrain and enemy units; see below under dangerous terrain.

Wheeling
Units can wheel up to 90 degrees without penalty.

Pursuit
When you charge and reach a fleeing unit, you only wipe it out if you pass a Ld test.

Marching.
Double Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Reforming
Units containing a musician can do a free reform after failing a charge if they pass a Ld test. Units may reform after the combat phase, but cannot have less models in base contact. Units that lost the combat resolution have to make a Ld test in order to reform.
At the end of their movement phase a unit with a musician may reform for free. Not sure if they can shoot after this.


Heavy cavalry
Heavy cav march as normal.

Skirmishers
Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, and must be deployed with a 1/2 inch gap between each and every model.
X = Model
O = 1" Gap between

X O X O X O X O X
O O O O O O O O O
X O X O X O X O X

Skirmishers still rank up in combat, but as they do not get a rank bonus they cannot negate enemy rank bonuses. As long as they are not charging, Skirmishers can reform on the move as often as they wish and also march and shoot.
Skirmishers are always stubborn in a forest.
Skirmishers do not have 360 degree Line of sight.


Redirecting charges
If I have understood this correctly, it seems we’re going back to 6th ed rules. You can redirect a charge at any other valid target following the normal rules for declaring charges, not just at an enemy unit lying on your direct pursuit path.


MAGIC

Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)
Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
You may not channel while fleeing, off the board or when you suffer from stupidity..

Maximum Power and Dispel Dice
The maximum number of power or dispel dice you may have at any time is 12. This includes any power/dispel dice generated by special rules, spells and/or magic items.

You cannot channel over 12 power or dispel dice. Other effects may be used to replenish the power dice pool later on once some dice have been used, like Dark Elves' spell and Lore of Death's effects, and presumably the Slann's extra dice.

Casting Spells
To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.
Double ones are not miscast.

Lost Control Chart
Roll of 1: Could be S10 hit for caster and models in base contact.

Roll of 4: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for models under a 5” template, centred on the wizard. Also, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 your wizard is plunged into the realm of chaos, ond a 4+ you lose D6 power dice instead.

Determining Spells
Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice...
Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.
There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.


Bound spells
Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, I.E if the level of the item is 3 you need to roll or higher for it to be cast. Bound items though cannot miscast.
Every magic user has access to the pool.


Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.
Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
Curses: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment
Buffs: Support your own troops
Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
Power whirls: Apply to all of the battlefield or move across the table.!?


Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the caster is granted a Bonus of +3 when casting a fire spell upon the same target.
Missiles:
Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.
Curses:
Buffs:
Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound. This causes flaming attacks and ignores armour saves.
Missiles:
Curses:
Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.
Buffs:
Possibly a spell that grants every unit in 12" scaly skin (5+ armour)
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type.
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus:
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:

Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.
Missiles:
Curses:
Buffs:
Direct damage:
Power whirls:
Purple Sun. A crystal sphere drifting above the battlefield. It uses the 3 inch template, moving artillerydice multiplied by 3 inches from the wizard into a chosen direction. Each model touched has to pass a I-test or is removed from play.


And the other rumours:
Each spell can be cast once per magic phase, regardless of how many casters there are.



SHOOTING

Single models have a 180 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 90 degrees arc of sight.

Fire in 2 ranks.
All missile weapons fire in 2 ranks as standard
Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills. -Harry I think


Salvo Fire
Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots. Salvo fire only applies if you haven't moved and not when you stand and shoot.


True Line of sight
Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines
Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit.

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.

Shooting a cannon
You nominate a spot then roll the two artillery dice for bounces. If you hit a unit, the strength decreases like a bolt thrower's bolt, starting at S10. If the first bounce hits a wall, the shot is wasted but the wall is destroyed.

COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Supportive Attacks
Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model.
This is only for models fighting to the front. Units charged in the flank or rear only fight in 1 rank, but being charged in the flank or rear will not stop units fighting in multiple ranks to the front.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).

Cavalry
Riders only in the second rank may attack.

Stepping up
Casualties are strictly removed from the back. A unit only loses attacks if it runs out of replacement models in the rank in base contact.

Horde
10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. Monstrous infantry like Ogres need to be only 6 wide to benefit from this rule.

Stubborn
If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn.

Unit Strength
Unit Strength is completely gone.

Rank bonuses
Unchanged. Up to 3.

Monstrous Creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).

Crush them!
Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength (includes Great Eagles and Disks). (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.) This does not replace impact hits.

Destroy them!
Larger Creatures and Monsters do D6 attacks instead of 1 attack for crush them. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.) This does not replace impact hits.

Striking in Initiative order
Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).

Chariots
S7 autokill is gone

Outnumbering Enemy
There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Change to Wound table
All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.

Breath Weapons
Monsters with a breath weapon may use it once per battle in either the shooting phase (no partials under the template) OR once in combat, with 2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength in combat. This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.

Parry
The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save.

It is not a second ward save (afaik).
It is not a ward save ontop of an armour save (afaik)
It does not stack (afaik).

Overrunning
When you destroy an enemy unit you can either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking.


WEAPONS

Combat Weapons
Great weapons Always strike last (this overrides any army book rules). Can be used in 2 ranks!
Cavalry armed with Great Weapons have +2 Strength

Missile Weapons
Longbows Same. See shooting above for more rules.
Pistols have 12" range.

Thrown Weapons
Stand and Shoot reaction: The only weapons you can stand and shoot with if the enemy charges you from within their basic movement range are thrown weapons.


PSYCHOLOGY

Panic
Seems to be unchanged. Panic is now the only thing listed under 'psychology', everything else is a special rule.

SPECIAL RULES
The number of universal special rules has doubled. Presumably this is just drawing in some from the army books themselves.
Units can reroll all leadership tests within 12" of the battle standard.
If the General is on a Large Target mount the Ld range is 18” instead.

Stubborn
Stubborn units can use the general's leadership for break tests if within 12".

Fear
Fear tests are taken at the start of every combat phase.
If you fail the Fear test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well
Fear does not make enemies flee.

Terror
Terror tests are taken at the start of every combat phase, the current limit of one Terror test per game is removed.
If you fail the Terror test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well. Terror incorporates fear

- Like now you need to take a Terror test if charged by a Terror causer. If failed you flee.
- The other two things Terror does (test to charge a Terror causer and test if within 6" of Terror causer at the start of a turn) are removed
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.

Killing Blow
Normal Killing blow works as normal, for anything up to and including ogre sized bases (40mm). There is something called Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with any sized bases.

Always Strike Last
Models with great weapons will always strike last

Always Strike First
ASL combined with ASF cancel each other out. Strike in initiative order.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy
+1 attack all the time (front rank only for regular infantry and cavalry). If the enemy is within Movement +12”, it has to declare a charge unless it surpresses the frenzy by passing a ld test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance
This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

For things that already have a Ward Save, Flesh Hounds for instance, they have a 5+ Ward save already, and MR(3). This gives them a 5+ save against shooting/ combat, and a 2+ Ward Save against magic.

Regeneration
Regeneration will come in several types. The Slanns ability for example will grant him Regeneration (3+), while there is a mundane magic item that grants regeneration (6+).

I'm so enraged it may just destroy the world.

forgot to add this.

Units can now CATCH cannon balls, forgot specifics.

The age of Gorbad as general is on the rise. Hello, Leadership 10 Stubborn Re-roll all Leadership checks for units within 18" of the cavalry model base.

So, WHFB leadership is about to become as much a joke as it was for 40K 4th Edition.

Minsc wrote:The age of Gorbad as general is on the rise. Hello, Leadership 10 Stubborn Re-roll all Leadership checks for units within 18" of the cavalry model base.

So, WHFB leadership is about to become as much a joke as it was for 40K 4th Edition.

pretty much.... sigh

I have also heard of entire ork armies with spears .... sigh

I'm actually rather excited to see how it all plays out.

I like the magic nerf.

I'm not going to subscribe to the chicken littles. I've JUST completed my Dark Elves as well and havent settled into an actual play pattern yet. Which means I'll prolly be buying more spearmen....

I'm looking at this as basically a new game system. The same way everyone else should be looking at it. Dont be disheartened, just get your models up and running and go play!

Rules changes bad/good....whatever...the game will be fun regardless. Enjoy it.

Great, so now my mark of tzeentch on my Chaos Warrior's is wasted due to the new parry rule? :(

TheFirstBorn wrote:Great, so now my mark of tzeentch on my Chaos Warrior's is wasted due to the new parry rule? :(

If it combines, you might be able to get a 5+ Ward when engaged to the front. 3+ / 5+ is almost as good as 2+ / 6+ (13.9% save rate for the 2/6, 22% for 3/5+ - one more model per ten wounds, essentially).

The "leadership = hahaha" thing is what's going to bite. Pretty much anyone who has access to Ld. 10 (via Special Characters or otherwise) as well as a semi-cheap Core can essentially make a feth-huge block that'll never, ever run regardless of who they face. Pandemonium is probably going to become a suddenly extremely useful spell when it comes to Leadership, being able to deny units like Skaven and Night Goblins high-leadership Stubborns.

it kind of sucks. i was looking forward to trying a magic intensive force this time around but with these rules it seems youre almost guaranteed a miscast.

If you copy our member Grimstonefire's post of this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290823.page , why not credit him, but make a double post? Didn't you follow rumour discussion for the last 6 months and assumed that everybody else didn't either? Just a thought.

25% minimum point cost Lords
25% minimum point cost Heroes
25% maximum point cost Core
25% minimum point cost Heroes
25% minimum point cost Rares
25% minimum point costs Specials

BTW, having a minimum of 100% for heroes, lords, specials and rares doesn't leave much for core, does it?
Well, that at least proves that your post is not an exact copy of Grimstone's rumour summary

Chill, kroothawk.

Kroothawk wrote:If you copy our member Grimstonefire's post of this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290823.page , why not credit him, but make a double post? Didn't you follow rumour discussion for the last 6 months and assumed that everybody else didn't either? Just a thought.

25% minimum point cost Lords
25% minimum point cost Heroes
25% maximum point cost Core
25% minimum point cost Heroes
25% minimum point cost Rares
25% minimum point costs Specials

BTW, having a minimum of 100% for heroes, lords, specials and rares doesn't leave much for core, does it?
Well, that at least proves that your post is not an exact copy of Grimstone's rumour summary

I originally did write all of this up, but I looked at the warseer rumors and realized almost everything they said was right except for a couple things here and there. So it was faster just to copy and change.

I'm trying to suss out how this will affect my Dwarves. Looks like they might be able to get the charge sometimes, but that it will matter less than it used to anyhow (people will be striking first on them ANYWAY). Being able to bring warmachines and elite combat troops will be good. And it'll be easier to set up the gunline now that everyone can deploy in two ranks.

I'm curious if they understand how horrible those skirmisher rules are and felt they needed a massive nerf or have no idea that they've just made them worthless. I mean it's all negative except for stubborn in the woods and marching and shooting. Who cares when typically skirmishers don't last in prolonged combat; certainly not now that ranked units get a jillion attacks and marching and shooting does nothing for the ones that have no shooting. Even stuff like skinks don't benefit that much due to the loss of 360 line of sight and their larger formation will be harder to hide from charges (they'll get one shot off then be charged and die). They really might as well had a rule saying, "don't take these out of your case what is wrong with you???"

Even from a non-rules perspective they are bad. Having a fixed formation like that is going to be a pain in the ass to move without some stupid new movement tray that they won't make for two years and will probably forget to make 25mm sized ones as well.

I already bitched about no partials. Welcome to the age of template-hammer.

So, can anyone do me a huge favor and let me know what this does for the Skaven army I have just started to get into WHFB?

Apart from it not being a good idea do go super cheesy with cheap spellcasters...and Stormvermin might actually be half decent now that you strike in initiative order.

Blair wrote:So, can anyone do me a huge favor and let me know what this does for the Skaven army I have just started to get into WHFB?

Apart from it not being a good idea do go super cheesy with cheap spellcasters...and Stormvermin might actually be half decent now that you strike in initiative order.

I think hoardey armies, like skaven, will greatly benefit from the new rule set. I also beleave there wil a resurgent in Orc and Gobbo players. Unfournately I play elf armies but I think my Empire may fair well in the new rule set. Nothing is set in stone so Im taking all rumors like I always do, with a very large grain of salt.

I do not believe the new magic system one bit, if you get so many power dice then your going to be wanting to cast more than one spell, but apparently you have to pick only a few spells. Also imagine how easy it will be to cast for instance O 'n' G magic, their basic spell needs what, a 5 I think, roll 2 dice, add 2 for a basic level 2 wizard, cmon you only need to roll 3, the chance of failure is 1/36! Do you guys really think it's gonna be that easy to cast spells. Oh and remember you've still got them other seven dice that you generated this turn left to use, and what would they do with the O 'n' G miscast table? Because miscasts don't exist anymore do they, this is just faults with one army I play, I cba finding all the faults in other armies too.

Er, Scar, most armies have a basic spell at 5+. Furthermore, regular Orc spells are at 6+ (the three spells being a single D6 magic missile (on 5+ to cast), a single S5 no-armor hit, and the Orc unit striking first + having hatred), with them then bumping up to 8's or higher. Goblins, meanwhile, only have their first spell a 5+ (D6 S2 no-armor hits), with the second spell on a 8+ - on average it takes 3 dice for Goblins to cast their spells as it stands now.

8th Edition will not see a rise in O&G players for their current rules. They just don't offer anything that other armies already offer for better. Dwarves, Dark Elves, High Elves, and Warriors of Chaos, they seem like they'll be the best armies at the moment for the new edition.

Oh, and nice job trying to make the Orcs & Goblins look like they're being made broken. They still have a 13% chance of being unable to cast without even rolling PD's, and also had the harshest Miscast Table in the game. Heck, the majority of their bound items have a good chance of injuring the user.

Minsc wrote:Er, Scar, most armies have a basic spell at 5+. Furthermore, regular Orc spells are at 6+ (the three spells being a single D6 magic missile (on 5+ to cast), a single S5 no-armor hit, and the Orc unit striking first + having hatred), with them then bumping up to 8's or higher. Goblins, meanwhile, only have their first spell a 5+ (D6 S2 no-armor hits), with the second spell on a 8+ - on average it takes 3 dice for Goblins to cast their spells as it stands now.

8th Edition will not see a rise in O&G players for their current rules. They just don't offer anything that other armies already offer for better. Dwarves, Dark Elves, High Elves, and Warriors of Chaos, they seem like they'll be the best armies at the moment for the new edition.

Oh, and nice job trying to make the Orcs & Goblins look like they're being made broken. They still have a 13% chance of being unable to cast without even rolling PD's, and also had the harshest Miscast Table in the game. Heck, the majority of their bound items have a good chance of injuring the user.

1. How do they have 13% chance of failure before rolling?
2. All armies with their own spells will be broken, it's just o'n'g are the only armie I know well.

scarskull5 wrote:1. How do they have 13% chance of failure before rolling?

Animosity. 13% chance at the start of the turn they can't do anything. Anything. It is the only state beyond fleeing and being the direct model to fail a stupidity (instead of being stuck in a stupid unit) that you cannot cast magic in.

scarskull5 wrote:2. All armies with their own spells will be broken, it's just o'n'g are the only armie I know well.

Orc & Goblin spells aren't that bad, though. Their buffs in hand-to-hand put them on par with most armies standard elites (or, in other words, Black Orcs + Shaman + Lucky Spell Generation Roll + Getting Spell Off = Orc Unit roughly on par w/ Vanilla Special of other Army), and of their six (of twelve) direct damage spells only half can cause more than 1D6 hits (one only causing a single hit), of which one has a 13% chance of dropping D6 S6 hits somewhere in your army and the other is reliant on the enemy's unit size. Their magic isn't broken, especially if 8th Edition spell rumors are true (Fists of Gork has nothing on "All units hit by moving Small Template test initiative or die"). When you add in that almost 13% of all spell failures result in the Death of an Orc / Goblin Caster by default (as opposed to the 2.78% chance of other Spell Casters) and can cause hits across the entire army, that's another drawback against their magic.

gak I forgot about animosity my bad, also I'm strictly a Night goblin only player, I dislike normal gobbos or orcs so I don't use buffing spells, but as I said before all spells are going to be so easy to pull off now, games will end much mroe quickly if one team has a mage and the other team is... well, dwarfs!

I agree the new rules for skirmishers suck.

But I love the new magic system! Not only does it prevent the amazing BS that was a Tzeentch army.

I feel like GW did this not so much as a revision, but as a test... like what works, what does the affect, and best of all...

HOW CAN WE MAKE THE GAME A LOT MORE BALANCED WITHOUT RELEASING A NEW CODEX FOR EVERY ARMY!

Now, I'm new to Fantasy but the army organization has me a bit confused:

25% minimum point cost Lords and Heroes
25% maximum point cost Core
25% minimum point cost Rares
25% minimum point costs Specials

I'm reading this as I can't spend any more than 25% of my points on Core Units and I need to spend at least 25% of my points on the other stuff. Am I reading it wrong? Minimizing basic troops in favor of the more elite stuff? That seems wicked odd to me. If only because my 40k playstyle is to maximize my troops first then build upon that.

The other changes aren't really affecting me at the moment. I still don't really know how to play

Schnitzel wrote:Now, I'm new to Fantasy but the army organization has me a bit confused:

25% minimum point cost Lords and Heroes
25% maximum point cost Core
25% minimum point cost Rares
25% minimum point costs Specials

I'm reading this as I can't spend any more than 25% of my points on Core Units and I need to spend at least 25% of my points on the other stuff. Am I reading it wrong? Minimizing basic troops in favor of the more elite stuff? That seems wicked odd to me. If only because my 40k playstyle is to maximize my troops first then build upon that.

The other changes aren't really affecting me at the moment. I still don't really know how to play

sorry I was trying to find out how to phrase it, I have changed. Thank you.

But yes, it seems Fantasy has made the same change 40k has made by almost requiring basic troops in armies.

Generalian wrote:

Schnitzel wrote:Now, I'm new to Fantasy but the army organization has me a bit confused:

25% minimum point cost Lords and Heroes
25% maximum point cost Core
25% minimum point cost Rares
25% minimum point costs Specials

I'm reading this as I can't spend any more than 25% of my points on Core Units and I need to spend at least 25% of my points on the other stuff. Am I reading it wrong? Minimizing basic troops in favor of the more elite stuff? That seems wicked odd to me. If only because my 40k playstyle is to maximize my troops first then build upon that.

The other changes aren't really affecting me at the moment. I still don't really know how to play

sorry I was trying to find out how to phrase it, I have changed. Thank you.

But yes, it seems Fantasy has made the same change 40k has made by almost requiring basic troops in armies.

Okay. I think I get it now. So, say in a 1000 point game, I can only spend up to 250 points on my Heroes, Rares, and Special units? Sorry for my ignorance I know it shouldn't be this tough to grasp

Actually, if the chart's right, it's 250pts could be spent on Heroes, Lords, Rares, and Specials each (not Heroes & Lords), but you must have at least 250pts on core in the end.

Or at 1K point, it's a Lord (at 250pts or less), one to two heroes (at a total of 250pts or less), and then some Core and a special / Rare. This, funnily enough, both encourages Hero-hammer (A Lord at 1K points to gib up some units) as well as downplays the need of infantry (In 250pts, most people could have a single regiment fulfill the entire Core requirement).

Minsc wrote:Actually, if the chart's right, it's 250pts could be spent on Heroes, Lords, Rares, and Specials each (not Heroes & Lords), but you must have at least 250pts on core in the end.

Or at 1K point, it's a Lord (at 250pts or less), one to two heroes (at a total of 250pts or less), and then some Core and a special / Rare. This, funnily enough, both encourages Hero-hammer (A Lord at 1K points to gib up some units) as well as downplays the need of infantry (In 250pts, most people could have a single regiment fulfill the entire Core requirement).

I've got it now. Thank you for clearing that up

Now, does this throw out the army organization in the army books? Or do those still apply? 0 Lords in a game under 2000 points for an example.

Schnitzel wrote:

Minsc wrote:Actually, if the chart's right, it's 250pts could be spent on Heroes, Lords, Rares, and Specials each (not Heroes & Lords), but you must have at least 250pts on core in the end.

Or at 1K point, it's a Lord (at 250pts or less), one to two heroes (at a total of 250pts or less), and then some Core and a special / Rare. This, funnily enough, both encourages Hero-hammer (A Lord at 1K points to gib up some units) as well as downplays the need of infantry (In 250pts, most people could have a single regiment fulfill the entire Core requirement).

I've got it now. Thank you for clearing that up

Now, does this throw out the army organization in the army books? Or do those still apply? 0 Lords in a game under 2000 points for an example.

from what the red shirts say at my store.

Tear that up, put it on a plate, add some relish and ketchup, and eat it. It will be in a better place.

If this is true GW are really just fething up the army books, I thought of another fault th other day, now that we choose our spells, what happens to the HE magical item that let's you choose your own? I really am considering selling all my fantasy if they go through with this, I don't think I could stand playing like it.

Hey Generalian, have the Redshirts at you store got an actual copy of the rulebook, or have they just been reading Dakka and warseer (like all good fanboys do) and got a few facts mixed up?

The threads that Grimstonefire has made here and on warseer are based on very reliable sources, so unless your redshirts have DEFINITELY got the book and aren't just yanking your chain I'd be more inclined to take his version as fact.