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In the raw, as far as i can gather, when assaulting a vehicle and resolving hits one must take into account how far the vehicle has moved the previous turn (eg: no movement = auto hit, combat speed = 4+, etc)

What if a lucky Lysander is able to assault a poorly placed monolith on the first player turn- the monolith hasn't had a previous turn... Is it an automatic hit?

Cantus wrote:In the raw, as far as i can gather, when assaulting a vehicle and resolving hits one must take into account how far the vehicle has moved the previous turn (eg: no movement = auto hit, combat speed = 4+, etc)

What if a lucky Lysander is able to assault a poorly placed monolith on the first player turn- the monolith hasn't had a previous turn... Is it an automatic hit?

Yes, it is an auto hit.

Or maybe not. The rules don't actually cover what happens. Strictly speaking, the game breaks and Slaanesh kills a ptera-squirrel!

99.99% of people play it as autohit however.

I would imagine yes its an auto hit. The monolith didnt move previously, so it would fall under the requirements for an auto hit on vehicle.

But Im probably wrong, Ive been off the game a while


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Damn ninjad by a troll

The rule is: " a vehicle that is immobilised or was stationary in its previous turn" is automatically hit.

Since the vehicle in question didnt have a previous turn it obviously cant be autiomatically hit. But.....the other choices on the chart also all are based off of the status of the vehicle's previous turn movement.

While some people do play it as an auto hit, locally we play it as a 4+ hit. It makes a lot more sense than the vehicle being invulnerable in this case, the whole pregame part of the game not really existing otherwise in the rules.


Sliggoth

Cantus wrote:In the raw, as far as i can gather, when assaulting a vehicle and resolving hits one must take into account how far the vehicle has moved the previous turn (eg: no movement = auto hit, combat speed = 4+, etc)

What if a lucky Lysander is able to assault a poorly placed monolith on the first player turn- the monolith hasn't had a previous turn... Is it an automatic hit?

As gwar pointed out, this is a hole in the rules, it is up to you and your community to come up with an answer or you and your opponent to come up with an answer before each game.

I see no reason to simply just have it be an auto-hit and leave that as a the rule, I think taking factors into account such as deployment type, or leaving it up to random chance is superior.

D6
1,2 auto-hit (no movement)
3,4 need a 4+ (Combat Speed)
5,6 need a 6+ (Cruising Speed)

Then play the shooting of that vehicle along the same lines.

Rules dont cover it, but its an autohit in 99.9999999999% of venues you will ever play at.

If a player was being funny with me about this he better not be running Bjorn, or doom or anyt one of the multitude of things i can suddenly make not work etc cuz i will smack him in the head with the RAW at every single opportunity for being such a git.

I've always seen it played as an auto hit. Wasn't relevant to me until I started fielding deff koptas but that is how we do it at EVERY tournament at the FLGS.

NaZ

Except in planetstrike, how are you getting a first turn assault?

Centurian99 wrote:Except in planetstrike, how are you getting a first turn assault?

12" deployment, 12" move, 2" disembark, over 1" base, 6" assault is as far as I get.

Edit- Derp, maybe the pivot is 5"? Probably not.

Maybe Shrike, which gives fleet?

Either way, I would argue it is either an auto-hit (for opponents)

OR

Cruising (for me)



Nah, I would just play it as an auto-hit.

I feel sorry for the vehicle getting auto-hit by Lysander...

Shrike could get it off. Hmm... what else?

Ork BW/Trukk moves 13", disembark 2", Weirdboy Waaagh! for 6", 2" base on a MAN, 6" assault ~27"

Dawn of War deployment, if your opponent is none-too-bright, could easily get a 1st turn charge off.


Scouts might be able to, if you had Shrike in your list and could deploy out of LOS.

Assault Squad with Shrike.

Dark Eldar are truly the masters of the turn-one-assault-fu.

kartofelkopf wrote:Shrike could get it off. Hmm... what else?

Ork BW/Trukk moves 13", disembark 2", Weirdboy Waaagh! for 6", 2" base on a MAN, 6" assault ~27"

Dawn of War deployment, if your opponent is none-too-bright, could easily get a 1st turn charge off.


Scouts might be able to, if you had Shrike in your list and could deploy out of LOS.

Assault Squad with Shrike.

Deffkoptas - 24" Scout Move, 12" normal move, 6" assault move - 40" total assault move. Oh yea!

Durr, I didn't even think of that, and I play it pretty regularly. I guess SM Scout Bikes are in the same boat.

Dark Angel Bike Squads are Reknown for this =D! Deploy 12" Scout 12" + move 12" + assault 6"... Probably going to be able to assault w/e I want.

DE Raider wyches too. something like 31". Have Dash tell you how it works. :p

Pvt. Jet wrote:DE Raider wyches too. something like 31". Have Dash tell you how it works. :p

12" move, 2" disembark, 1" base, 6" FoF, and 12" assault. 33", but that's assuming perfect rolling (right drugs for 12" assault, and a 6 on the Fleet roll)

Deffkoptas and Scout Bikes (forgot about them!) have the longest assault range in the game, as far as I know. 40" is sick, you are 100% guaranteed to be in CC turn 1 if you want to be.


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Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Dark Eldar are truly the masters of the turn-one-assault-fu.

I think Orks and SM have you beat here dude

We are faster than a sky rocket.


Oh and I would assume, it's an instant hit.

The rules have absolutely nothing to say on the matter. The people that assume it's autohit are not reading the rule properly (did it remain stationary in the previous turn? no, because there wasn't a previous turn).

Personally, I play 4+ as they're all equally possible and 4+ isn't screwing either player.

Scott-S6 wrote:The rules have absolutely nothing to say on the matter. The people that assume it's autohit are not reading the rule properly (did it remain stationary in the previous turn? no, because there wasn't a previous turn).

Personally, I play 4+ as they're all equally possible and 4+ isn't screwing either player.

Oh sheeeee.... this guy is right... 4+ sounds good.

Gwar! wrote:Strictly speaking, the game breaks and Slaanesh kills a ptera-squirrel!

I was reminded of this:

Scouts in a LSS, now thats some nice range


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oh, and we play it as auto hit

Can scouts assault out of the LSS after it moves flat out? If so...

24" Flat out move, 12" normal move, 2" disembark, 1" base, 6" assault for a total of 45" Looks like that's the nastiest combo right there.

Fixed the math fail.

No, as you may not embark/disembark if the vehicle moves flat out

However if you flat out in the scout move that is fine.

Deffkoptas and Scout Bikes (forgot about them!) have the longest assault range in the game, as far as I know. 40" is sick, you are 100% guaranteed to be in CC turn 1 if you want to be.

Landspeeder storm? 24" scout move, 12" move 3" deployment (back of base has to be 2" of hull so front is 3") 6" assault = 45" assault, Throw Shrike in there and you're looking 46" - 52" .

Also with Shrike all scouts can deploy 18" from the enemy scout to 12" away then with fleet have a 13" minimum assault range. Plus whatever unit Shrike deploys with and Landraiders doing the pivot trick and you can get your entire army into assault in turn 1 if you really wanted to.

I know how much people like to overcomplicate things, but if the vehicle hasn't moved it gets auto-hit. That's how even the most beardy rules-lawyers I know play it...

To do otherwise seems to say that deployment counts as movement and opens up a lot of other nonsense.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, as you may not embark/disembark if the vehicle moves flat out

However if you flat out in the scout move that is fine.

Right, I meant during the Scout Move (don't have the SM codex in front of me to see if there's some weirdness in there regarding that)


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FlingitNow wrote:

Deffkoptas and Scout Bikes (forgot about them!) have the longest assault range in the game, as far as I know. 40" is sick, you are 100% guaranteed to be in CC turn 1 if you want to be.

Landspeeder storm? 24" scout move, 12" move 3" deployment (back of base has to be 2" of hull so front is 3") 6" assault = 45" assault, Throw Shrike in there and you're looking 46" - 52" .

Also with Shrike all scouts can deploy 18" from the enemy scout to 12" away then with fleet have a 13" minimum assault range. Plus whatever unit Shrike deploys with and Landraiders doing the pivot trick and you can get your entire army into assault in turn 1 if you really wanted to.

Two posts above yours...and I can't add! 45" it is. Fixed.

Shrike gives all scouts fleet? And unless you can inflitrate Land Raiders, all you are going to get is +3" for the pivot (I'm being generous here) 12" normal move, disembark 2", 1" base (unless you are using Termies) and 6" assault, giving you a total of 21" Even if both sides set up a max of 12" away from their board edges, you aren't going to make it into assault turn 1.

Monster Rain wrote:I know how much people like to overcomplicate things, but if the vehicle hasn't moved it gets auto-hit. That's how even the most beardy rules-lawyers I know play it...

To do otherwise seems to say that deployment counts as movement and opens up a lot of other nonsense.

That acually makes alot of sense. So +1 to that.

Monster Rain wrote:I know how much people like to overcomplicate things, but if the vehicle hasn't moved it gets auto-hit. That's how even the most beardy rules-lawyers I know play it...

To do otherwise seems to say that deployment counts as movement and opens up a lot of other nonsense.

But that is not what the rules say:

Was it immobilised or stationary last turn? - no
Did it move at combat speed last turn last turn? - no
Did it move at cruising speed last turn last turn? - no

So a house rule is required. That doesn't mean that deployment is movement or anything else. Since non of the options apply all of them are equally valid for the house rule. Would the tanks have been sitting there waiting for the fight to start? Or moving fast to get into position? I prefer 4+ as it doesn't favour either side.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I know how much people like to overcomplicate things, but if the vehicle hasn't moved it gets auto-hit. That's how even the most beardy rules-lawyers I know play it...

To do otherwise seems to say that deployment counts as movement and opens up a lot of other nonsense.

But that is not what the rules say:

Was it immobilised or stationary last turn? - no
Did it move at combat speed last turn last turn? - no
Did it move at cruising speed last turn last turn? - no


So a house rule is required. That doesn't mean that deployment is movement or anything else. Since non of the options apply all of them are equally valid for the house rule. Would the tanks have been sitting there waiting for the fight to start? Or moving fast to get into position? I prefer 4+ as it doesn't favour either side.

Ipso facto auto-hit. The fact that there was no "last turn" doesn't mean that the unit moved and gets the benefit of being hit on a 4+.

That's just the way I interpret it. If the vehicle hasn't moved at all in the game, it should be automatically hit in assault.

The criteria for a 4+ or 6+ haven't been met. Neither have the criteria for auto-hit. So, why should it be an autohit?