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Can the Space Wolf Battle Leader Use Behind Enemy Lines If Outflanking With A Group Of Wolf Scouts?

i Would think so Because a wolf guard with them can and it makes sense a highly trained Space wolf warrior of a higher rank could.

Also i says when a unit of wolf scouts outflanks it never says anything about them not being able to do this when an independent character is present.

An answer would be great as i would definitely take wolf scouts with a melta and two power swords with a wolf guard and a battle leader.

Read the FAQ

Yes.

Not a Battle Leader because he's an independent character.

A Pack Leader can, however.

Read the FAQ for more clarification.

Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard
Pack Leader assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators,
make a move before the game begins because of
its Scouts ability, choose to outflank or use
Behind Enemy Lines?
A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard
Pack Leader is not an Independent Character and
therefore the fact he does not have the Infiltrate
or Scouts ability does not preclude the squad he
has joined from using those abilities.
GAMES WORKSHOP FAQ

But he DOES have infiltrate IF you give him saga of the hunter

So it doesn't matter if he is an independent character because the fact he has the ability means he doesn't stop the squad he
has joined from using those abilities.

No, no no, that is the Wolf Guard Pack leader.......just a regular wolf guard you assign to the wolf scouts, not the Battle leader.

Battle leaders can get saga of the hunter which gives them scout and outflank, not behind enemy lines though

I know that they are talking about the wolf guard pack leader

But they say that if he was an independent character then he would stop them from using the rule because he doesn't have it.

A WOLF GUARD BATTLE LEADER=Independent character but SAGA OF THE HUNTER=Infiltrate Special Rule





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn you snuck that post in

But they dont use Behind Enemy Lines its just happens when they use outflank

Yes, thank you GW for making Saga of the Hunter COMPLETELY worthless! "Technically, RAW states that even though the WGBL has Outflank with Saga of the Hunter, he does not have Scout or Infiltrate and an IC joining a squad, the squad doesn't confer their rules to him... but to make it somewhat useful, I would say they can outflank normally... just not Behind Enemy Lines... so more or less DONT TAKE SAGA OF THE HUNTER.... damn GW :(( :((

Chocolate Gork - reread the Saga, the saga gives OUTFLANK, and not Infiltrate.

So as soon as you join the IC to the Scout unit you check accordingf to the USR what happens: as the Scout and Infiltrate USRs are lost if the IC doesnt have them, the Scouts lose both rules.

Meaning they cannot outflank, so no OBEL. The FAQ does not say anything about this.

So here's what we have: A special rule that is worthless, unless you want to outflank him as an individual (which is worthless).

Does that interpretation make functional sense? No.

What would be functional? Recognizing that both the Wolf Scouts and Wolf IC can outflank and allowing them to do so together.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Chocolate Gork - reread the Saga, the saga gives OUTFLANK, and not Infiltrate.

So as soon as you join the IC to the Scout unit you check accordingf to the USR what happens: as the Scout and Infiltrate USRs are lost if the IC doesnt have them, the Scouts lose both rules.

Meaning they cannot outflank, so no OBEL. The FAQ does not say anything about this.

And read the Scout USR and Infiltrate USR. Both CONFER outflank to the Wolf Scouts. There is nothing RAW that then causes the Wolf Scouts to lose outflank, especially when a IC with Saga of the Hunter (that gives outflank) joins them. If you look at it, the outflank reference even then directs you to a page completely different from the USR page.

So as soon as you join the IC to the Scout unit you check accordingf to the USR what happens: as the Scout and Infiltrate USRs are lost if the IC doesnt have them, the Scouts lose both rules.

There is nothing RAW that then causes the Wolf Scouts to lose outflank, especially when a IC with Saga of the Hunter (that gives outflank) joins them

Ah, isn't it the IC rules that would make this first quote true and the second quote false?

Brother Ramses.

Yes, they confer Outflank. However the unit HAS to have the rule in order to have Outflank. And what do they lose as soon as an IC without the rule(s) joins them?

If you dont have the rule (Scouts, Infiltrate) then you cannot have Outflank conferred by them.

R.A.W = No functionality for IC's with saga of the hunter when attached to wolf scout squads

Should we play this way? Or should we go with the, "You know, it just makes sense that this ought to work..."

Well thats not worth getting into trouble for trying to sidestep the dakka language filter over

The scouts have outflank but the scouts dont HAVE outflank.

Slackermagee wrote:R.A.W = No functionality for IC's with saga of the hunter when attached to wolf scout squads

Should we play this way? Or should we go with the, "You know, it just makes sense that this ought to work..."

People should play however is best for their group. That may be RaW, that may not be RaW. Fact is, silly or not the rules as they exist in the books mean Saga of the Hunter doesn't allow the IC to outflank together with scouts. If people want to play otherwise, that's a house rule and a very reasonable one. That doesn't mean we should pretend like the rules aren't what they are. There isn't any benefit to looking at something silly and just saying "Oh well we should do it differently...", since that just glosses over the problem: A lot of 40k is written terribly. If we stay brutally honest about that, maybe, just maybe there is some slight chance we'll get better written rules in the future.

So saga of the hunter is the most useless thing in the wolf dex? YAY

[I will probably get intruble for this direct quote, but]

Try reading this way

Q. Can an Independent Character that has joined a Wolf Scouts pack outflank?
A. No he cannot.

Q: What about if he has the Saga of the Hunter?
A: He can only join an outflanking unit if he has the ability to outflank because of the Saga of the Hunter.

By the RAW, he causes the Scouts to lose Infiltrate, which means they can't Outflank. If you're not playing in a tourney, I would talk it over with your gaming group and see if they'd allow for the combo.

But does not a specific override a general

Saga of the Hunter just allows the model to Outflank. Wolf Scouts can only outflank when they enter from reserves because they have Infiltration. They lose Infiltration when the IC joins them.

Q. Can an Independent Character that has joined a Wolf Scouts pack outflank?
A. No he cannot.
The Statement: Can an Independent Character that has joined a Wolf Scouts pack outflank?
This is a very Specific Answer: No
Q: What about if he has the Saga of the Hunter?
A: He can only join an outflanking unit if he has the ability to outflank because of the Saga of the Hunter.


The Statement: He can only join an outflanking unit if he has the ability to outflank because of the Saga of the Hunter.

The wording is very Specific in the Errata that He can only join an outflanking unit if he has the ability to outflank because of the Saga of the Hunter.

So:
1st Your Wolf Scouts must be put in Reserves to Outflank, this makes this an Outflanking Unit
2nd You then have your IC with Saga of the Hunter Join the Wolf Scouts

So either
1] This allows the whole unit to outflank

or

2] This now removes the Wolf Scouts from Reserves that makes it no longer an Outflanking Unit.

A IC joining a unit will prevent the use of an USR, but by the Statement, the Rule is already in use.

Sooooooooo

Can he?

Cause if so its a pretty devastating close combat unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If ya want to be ridiculous about it

10xWolf Scouts-MeltaGun, 2xpower weapons, Mark Of the Wulfen-205
10xWolf Scouts-MeltaGun, 2xpower weapons, Mark Of the Wulfen-205
10xWolf Scouts-MeltaGun, 2xpower weapons, Mark Of the Wulfen-205

3xWolf Guard Battle Leader-Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Hunter-390

3xWolf Guard-TDA, PFx3-129

The Enemy wont be sitting near any of their board edges

The #1 problem with that list is only one model can have that Saga

oh yeah........ oh well thats alright the rest can do without

WG in TDA cannot join a unit of wolf scouts

nosferatu1001 wrote:Brother Ramses.

Yes, they confer Outflank. However the unit HAS to have the rule in order to have Outflank. And what do they lose as soon as an IC without the rule(s) joins them?

If you dont have the rule (Scouts, Infiltrate) then you cannot have Outflank conferred by them.

No. The Scout USR and Infiltrate USR do not say,

"As long as the Wolf Scouts can Scout or USR, they can also outflank."

So bought from the codex, the unit is conferred outflank. The BRB specifically tells you how to take away the Scout USR and Infiltrate USR, but the already conferred outflank remains UNLESS joined by an IC that does not have outflank. This is RAW per the BRB and further validated by the FAQ.

So basically this is an exercise in how to get around the rules so you can have an in game advantage.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:So basically this is an exercise in how to get around the rules so you can have an in game advantage.

G

How is anyone getting around the rules for an in-game advantage? It is RAW which was then validated by the FAQ. Everyone trying to oppose this is taking a stance that Saga of the Hunter was included by the developers for absolutely no reason and that the developers of the FAQ decided to make a completely useless entry in regard to Saga of the Hunter.

Which argument makes more sense? Completely useless rule and FAQ or IC with Saga of the Hunter can join Wolf Scouts and outflank/OBEL. RAW and common sense support the latter.

Wrong.

Rereead page 94. It requiers that DURING DEPLOYMENT units with Scouts or Infiltrate can Outflank.

as soon as you join the IC to the unit they LOSE Scout and Infiltrate.

Sorry, you are 100% totally and unutterably wrong in this.