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HQ
Librarian
- Nullzone and something else
100 points

Elites
Sternguard
- 9 man w/ Powerfist, Combi-Meltas(x5), Combi-Flamer(x2) and Rhino w/ EA
335 points


Dreadnought
- TL Autocannons (x2)
125 poins


Troops
Tactical Squad
10 man w/ Powerfist, Flamer, Plasma Cannon and Razorback
240 poitns

Tactical Squad
10 man w/ Powerfist, Meltagun, Plasma Cannon and Razorback
245 points

Scout Squad
5 man w/ Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks and Missile Launcher
100 points

Fast Attack
Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
90 points

Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
90 points

Land Speeder
Typhoon Missile Launcher
90 points

Heavy Support
Predator
Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
85 points

Total
1,500 points

So is this list competitive, not competitive? I'm looking for input before I buy more models. I already have the troops and want to make sure before I invest in more.

Edit 2: Toyed around with the list a bit more. I know predators work best in two so I'm curious if I should swap it out for something.

Well, you need a unit that can deal with harder targets.
The Sternguard Veterans are eventually able to do so.
I'd drop the lascannons and give them combi-meltas.
Their special ammunition can deal with softer targets so that
flamers are hardly necessary. I'd give them a Rhino for
increased mobility.
Give the Razorback to a combat squadded Tactical squad.

Hmmm, alright. Do you think I should give both of the tact squads razorbacks or just the one?


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Also, I'm always iffy on how to spec my transports. Do you suppose I should give the Razorbacks more than just an extra storm bolter?

Combi-melta librarian is 115, not 100, you can make up the points by dropping the melta bombs on the sergeants who already have powerfists. Alternatively, consider taking melta bombs instead of PF on some sergeants in order to save points.

My bad forgot to change the points for the librarian. The total does include the cost for the combi-melta though. MY reasoning behind the powerfist was to give them some Melee power to trash things? I feel like elites and CC specialists will be chargin' them so might as well have a fist to take out the biggest threat in the pile.

Oh, PF are fantastic. Its just PF and melta bombs that can be a bit overkill. Against almost everything except a land raider you are better off with a PF than melta bombs.

Versus walkers, PF hits at WS and grenades always hit on a 6. Your odds of hitting and penetrating are better with a PF

Versus vehicles, both PF and grenades hit based on how far the vehicle moved, but the PF gets 2+ chances to hit and the grenade gets 1. You will hit rear armor so Str 8 PF will be almost as good as str 8 meltabomb + 2D6.

So you generally don't need both meltabombs and PF.

There's nothing wrong with the powerfist, it's the powerfist + melta-bombs is he is questioning. If you are in HtH with a vehicle you are hitting the back armor, which in every case except LR, drops pods and some other rare things will be 10. Melta-bombs are overkill on 10 armor. Save yourself a handful of points and drop the melta-bombs.

That Sternguard squad needs to be fixed as suggested. Remember, 5 TH/SS termies in a landraider is 450 points...you are spending 420 on 10 guys in power armor and an 11 armor tank they can't all even fit in.

Also, I'd suggest an autocannon/lascannon predator over AC/HB for transport busting. This way you dont need the auto-cannon dread you were considering.

Ah, alright So I guess I'll drop the melta-bombs on all the squads. Should I keep one on the sternguard? I plan to use them a bit more aggressively and if the metlabomb will come into play a lot. I mean if I give them all combi-meltas it would be kind of moot...right?

My general rule of thumb is anyone who is looking for CC (possibly with vehicles) gets PF. Anyone who should avoid CC gets melta bombs or nothing.

Alright, well after the changes there's roughly 50 points left to spend. Not sure where too put them though. I'll edit the OP list in a second.


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With the 50 points I can slap on EA and Storm bolters onto my razor backs?

Eh, you could, though tbh I think extra armor is kind of overpriced. You could drop 4 combi-meltas and put in another LS Typhoon. 9 combi-meltas is probably overkill as well.

Also, what power will you take on the librarian and what is his plan? You could drop one sternguard and put the libby with them in the rhino. Or he could join one of the combat squads in their razorback.


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Also, if you don't already own the land speeders, I HIGHLY recommend you magnetize them. That way you can adjust their loadout based on mission of flavor of the week. There is a great tutorial that I've successfully followed here: http://talonstrike.blogspot.com/2009/05/magnetizing-land-speeder.html

I was thinking of giving him nullzone and some other attack power like Avenger and riding him with the tac squads. In hindsight though I think dropping a sternguard and making him ride with them would be a better idea. I like the idea of making room for another Typhoon though.


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Thanks, for the link I will use it. I haven't bought any landspeeders yet, but I'm pretty set on including them in my list.

Here's another tutorial: http://themagnetpro.blogspot.com/2010/01/land-speeder-conversion.html

Alternatively, you could put in a MM attack bike for more melta goodness.

Personally, I love my 3 LS Typhoons :-)

Hmmm I can't really include a typhoon with your suggested drops. I do have enough room for another dakka pred however. Though, if I drop a sternguard I can grab the typhoon and give the razor backs more dakka with storm bolters?


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I'm not big on attack bikes without a bike oriented army. Also, aren't Typhoons awesome <3

They're really underrated in my opinion.

Oh right, my mistake. Sternguard combi-meltas are only 5 points, not 10.

If you drop a sternguard and 3 combis that will give you the 40 you need to get to 90. You could also swap a tac sergeant PF for melta bombs and use the extra 20 points to either save combi-meltas or buy storm bolters for the RBs.

Well I squeezed in the typhoon by dropping the sternguard. Dropped a few combi-meltas as well to get some stormbolters on the Razorbacks. Do you reckon they're worth the extra dakka or should I just try to redirect the points into something else?

I'm a little hesitant about swapping out the PF on my Tac sergeants...mostly because I have them modeled already xD

Haha, well if you already have them, keep em. Or cut an arm of and magnetize the option of PF or other weapon.

Bleh, I'm not that dexterous so I don't think I could magnetize a space marine's arm without going through a few of them. I don't have the money for a few spares xD

So I guess the list is good to go?

A walking MM/HF dread is no good. either pod or change weapons.

is the libby going with the sternguard?

I was going to walk the dread up behind my transports and pop smoke if that helps.

Yes, the libby is going with the sternguard. They'll most likely be facing the tougher units and Nullzone would be more helpful if it can be used near them.


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On another note turning my dread into a rifleman dread is rather tempting. Four strength 7 shots with rerolls would be quite a boost too my Dakka. I'm just worried I don't have enough units capable of intercepting CC units.

why would you pay 15 pts for a combi melat for a Libby when you can get 3 combie meltas for the same cost in the sternguard squad? Take 4 Combi meltas and 4 combi plasmas in your sternguard.

Just take a single auto cannon if you wanna keep the DCCW.

I would drop the storm bolters on the RBs to get a complementary combi wepon on your tacticals.

As already mentioned PFs are poor on tacticals and they are especially poor on 5 man tactical squads. But if you really cant play counts as ccw I guess there is nothing you can do about that really.

I would also try to find a friend for the Dread by droping some upgrades and the dakka pred.

I admit taking a combi-melta on the libby was a bit of waste of points in hindsight, but there are somethings that I would like to disagree with. I don't see the point of taking 4 combi-plasmas with my sternguard squad due to the fact that they have special ammunition to deal with situations where plasma would be more useful. If high strength is needed they already have combi-meltas and a pf if it comes to melee.

I can't really say anything about PFs on tacticals until I play a few games with them. Also, I believe it should be all or nothing for a dread. Having a dread being on the fence about whether or not it wants to be melee or ranged kind of seems silly to me. You reduce its effectiveness in both roles by doing this and you may not necessarily get good results with it.

I like the idea of getting another dread though. I am just not hot about dropping the Dakka pred.


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The idea of having a second predator suddenly becomes appealing as well...

They do not have special amunition to deal with the stuff that plasma does. With plasma and Nullzone you can seriously hurt Assault termies and FnP units.

Id rather have a 54" threath range weapon on my dread than a (pretty much) 18" treath range weapon. With a TLAC it can provide some long range dakka while still functioning like a counter assault/tarpit unit.

A lone walking MM dread will achive nothing since if it does get close to treath range it will most likely be shut down but that wont happen the first turns so they will then proceed to shoot your long ranged stuff first and take the dread when they have handled the dakka pred/typhoons.

Well I'm not sure how eager I'd be fighting a Terminator squad with my Sternguard, but it is a fair point. Still I'm not too hot about them risking the get hot! rule. With a tactical squad I'd be fine with it, which is why I have a plasma cannon, but for my expensive troops...well I don't have FnP so I think I'm going to stick with only combi-meltas for now.

Oh, and my tactical squads have Plasma Cannons to deal with terminators, hopefully. I hope the synergy I have in mind works well.

You've sold me on the dread though. I think I'll just make it full range. Chances are that if I drop pod my dread in it's dead next turn. I'm not a fan of sacrificing units for a "eye for an eye" style. I think I'll just go full range and get the 4 TL AC shots.


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Oh, out of curiosity why do people say that you should take two predators at least?

Well, I usually run 2 or even 3 preds, just because I love how cheap they are.

If you go for the rifleman dread (2x TLAC) I recommend getting the Aegis defense line kit. It comes with 2x TLAC that are perfect for dread conversions; plus you get all the awesome defense line terrain.

Aegis Defense kit? Is that a forge world thing?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Aegis+defence+line

Aegis defense line: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat390003&prodId=prod20006a

It is a regular GW product in their 40k scenery line. The first picture only shows the wall pieces, but it also comes with the 2x TLAC turret piece which is perfect for dreadnoughts (or for making IG Hydras).

Combi-Meltas on sternguard will only work if you're planning on getting them REALLY close to the enemy. In which case you're losing out on the flexibility of the special ammmo (kraken rounds i'm looking at you)

Razorbacks give you extra firepower, but so do Rhinos with assault weapon and special weapon poking out the hatch.

Tacticals should go Melta Crazy.

What youi're lacking is long range.
Change the predator to an autocannon /lascannon set up.


Scout squad w/ Snipers and ML....
Sniper Rifles need a 4+ to Hit AND to wound. so don't think their uber range is going to guarantee kills.

Landspeeder Typhoons.
I ran one of the recently. it achieved very little.
If all you opponent is in transports the krak missile might penetrate, but this is actually better in frag mode against lots of flootsloggers.

Never did I say I the main purpose of the sternguard would be running up and unloading on things with combi-meltas. I know that that their special ammunition is their selling point and would not willingly make it pointless. However, the way battle flows MCs and Vehicles will undoubtedly close on my line eventually. While they may be taken out before that I like to have insurance against such threats. Meaning if you close and you're right up in my face. I could hellfire you, but chances are I'm switching to meltas and going with S8 shots against MCs or vehicles.

On the topic of tactical squads. I don't agree with this at all. Meltas and Multi-Meltas have a poor effective range compared to other choices. The plasma cannon drops blast templates and will help hit again the MEQs and Termies in the opposing army. Sure, there's a get hot rule, but I can fire an extra foot with a s7 ap2 blast. I think that's worth it.

Scout Squad is to take up a troop choice. Leave them back field so my hardier squads can move up and wreck something. I know snipers that great, but it leaves my army with more flexibility in terms of pushing with other units.

I got the predator because it's cheap. Switching to that mode is a bit odd. I have it there mostly to get the hordes as my tactical squads are geared for heavier units. Same thing with my Typhoons. I personally enjoy them and prefer having a unit that is consistently effective rather than being suicidal. I'll see for myself how this works and I know fully well that their main targets are transports and footsloggers. I didn't get them expecting they could crack open a land raider.


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Kolath wrote:Aegis defense line: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat390003&prodId=prod20006a

It is a regular GW product in their 40k scenery line. The first picture only shows the wall pieces, but it also comes with the 2x TLAC turret piece which is perfect for dreadnoughts (or for making IG Hydras).

It's not too hard to convert right?