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Has anyone ever made a KFF? Like a ring or some type of circular display to show what units are affected?

I was thinking of making a dome shaped thing or a ring that I can mount to the base that has a 6" circle on top of it to show the KFF's affected units.

Is this even legal?

This would not be legal, as it'd be considered pre-measuring the KFF distance, which you cannot do.

You move the units, the opponent shoots, and THEN you check distance - if a unit is within 6", they take a cover save.

Oh okay, I thought it'd be cool though.

Thanks again man.

Meh... if it looks cool, I doubt that too many players would have a problem with it.

insaniak wrote:Meh... if it looks cool, I doubt that too many players would have a problem with it.

Yeah except that it's illegal.

I mean if that's the logic to go by, I'm mounting rulers on all my units then.

The_Savior wrote:Yeah except that it's illegal.

So is changing the size of your model's base. But it's a small enough breach of the rules that most people don't care.


Being able to see the radius of your KFF is ultimately a pretty minor thing as well. You're already going to have a fair idea when measuring your movement as to which units are within 6" of the mek.

If anything, it's giving your opponent an advantage, since he can see before he shoots whether or not his chosen target will be receiving the benefit of the KFF.

insaniak wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Yeah except that it's illegal.

So is changing the size of your model's base. But it's a small enough breach of the rules that most people don't care.


Being able to see the radius of your KFF is ultimately a pretty minor thing as well. You're already going to have a fair idea when measuring your movement as to which units are within 6" of the mek.

If anything, it's giving your opponent an advantage, since he can see before he shoots whether or not his chosen target will be receiving the benefit of the KFF.

Yeah I thought that too, I was like well heck they can see it too, and still the cover save is a roll of chance anyways.

I've had the opposite experience - most people I play against do care - and are vehement - about things like pre-measuring distances in crafty ways and changing the size of your base.

I like to point out things like, "changing the size of my base actually benefits you, as it allows you to get more of your units into close combat with mine," but they'll have none of it.

I might just play with a bunch of rules lawyers, though, who knows. Your experience could be different.

Ask around! See if anyone you play against minds. If not, it could be a cool project.

I once had a thought of an Ork in each unit carrying conductive rods, and attaching a coiled length of wire to the 'conductor' in units within range... That thought never got very far, half because of the range-measuring issue, and half because I decided that the rest of the idea was silly too.

*Shrugs* In some games when I use Chimera's I like to use the dryer paper thing and place it over the Chimera's to show which one popped smoke, but only if my opponent allows it. I'd say, ask your opponent first, and if so, then sure, why not?

Cambak wrote:*Shrugs* In some games when I use Chimera's I like to use the dryer paper thing and place it over the Chimera's to show which one popped smoke, but only if my opponent allows it. I'd say, ask your opponent first, and if so, then sure, why not?

Actually, the RAW encourages this, and it's a far cry from creating a KFF "aura" that measures distances.

Under "smoke launchers" in the BGB, it encourages the player to use cotton balls or another implement to show which vehicle(s) just popped smoke.

On the other hand, the RAW explicitly say you cannot measure a distance before declaring an action.

Again, maybe I just play with a lot of rules lawyers, but my group would not permit the KFF thing.

Thats actually a really neat idea. make like a clearish blue slightly curved in disk 6. Then somehow make it where you can place it on or off your model so that the people who do mind it you can just take it off.

Well the idea was to make something like a see-through umbrella, that way I can look within its diameter and tell opponents and they can check themselves that I'm not adding extra cm's to my inch of range. That and so it'll look cool. Maybe it'd be better to use the KFF whenever shooting happens, so I can be like okay KFF check... it affects these guys. So that way when I move I still got to think and not be like well... I'll just move them over here cough.

SaintHazard wrote:I've had the opposite experience - most people I play against do care - and are vehement - about things like pre-measuring distances in crafty ways and changing the size of your base.

I like to point out things like, "changing the size of my base actually benefits you, as it allows you to get more of your units into close combat with mine," but they'll have none of it.

I might just play with a bunch of rules lawyers, though, who knows. Your experience could be different.

Some people do tend to take the rules as being more inviolate than others. From more than 15 years of playing in various places, though, this does seem to be a minority stance.

I don't see why you couldn't do it, as long as the mek wasn't wearing some sort of 6" diameter umbrella hat permanently.

You could just apply it as and when necessary, i.e. you shooting at these? let me just check KFF coverage (deploy dome) yes they are (undeploy dome).

Personally, I was thinking of getting one of those cake-cover-umbrella things...

I think a big clear plastic salad bowl would do the trick nicely.

I used a plastic bowl with my friend. But I was thinking maybe I could make something that looked cool.

Something along a similar line to GW's Vortex Grenade template, but obviously larger and clear, would look cool.

Sounds a little unwieldy. I've never really been clear on this, but units are 6" away in any direction to be affected by the KFF? Like if 0=KFF and _/|=1 inch, this would be the KFF coverage:
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_ _ _ _ _ _0_ _ _ _ _ _
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Edit: Okay, the dakka posting system has modified my intended "diagram", so just imagine that the vertical line goes through the 0.

Make it detachable. Take it off of the table at the beginning of your turn. move/shoot/assault etc. Then at the beginning of your opponents turn replace the KFF. On the one hand it will give your opponent an advantage by showing him what has the save without committing to the shot. on the other you will not have an advantage and hopefully less people would have a problem with it.

Its a shame that something that could look so cool would be rendered useless because people consider it cheating.

What to use though... hmmm

The only time it would matter is when you're moving the models ... just measure then, any one asks you're working out the move for you're mek (just remember to move him before you move on)

The_Savior wrote:What to use though... hmmm

an umbrella of suitable size!

Oh and the question about area of coverage, it's measured as a circle of radius 6" (and don't think for a minute i'm going to the effort of drawing a circle in ASCII!, well technically unicode...) from the big mek, and only 1 model in a unit has to be in range for the whole of that unit to benefit.

Okay, noob in the room here.

When you move you obviously measure to see how far you are moving, right?

So, once movement is declared are you not allowed to measure distance between your own units for moving them into position?

Rules are a bit vague. P3 says in general you only measure when called for where the movement rules say you can change your mind when measuring distances.

Also, as your KFF Mek is a HQ you're allowed to measure distances to units should you be looking to have him join a unit. What you can and cannot measure is all very confusing.

Ugavine wrote:Okay, noob in the room here.

When you move you obviously measure to see how far you are moving, right?

So, once movement is declared are you not allowed to measure distance between your own units for moving them into position?

Rules are a bit vague. P3 says in general you only measure when called for where the movement rules say you can change your mind when measuring distances.

Also, as your KFF Mek is a HQ you're allowed to measure distances to units should you be looking to have him join a unit. What you can and cannot measure is all very confusing.

In all instances (unless rules explicitly say otherwise, which some codices do) you declare the action, then you measure the distance.

So, when you move, you declare that this unit is moving X inches in this direction, then you measure X inches in that direction, then you move.
For shooting, you declare that this unit is shooting at that unit, then you measure distance to see if you're in range to shoot.
When assaulting, you declare that this unit is going to assault that unit, then measure to see if you can assault.

Same goes for the KFF. When you have your Mek and a mob of Boyz and you think they're less than 6" apart, the only time you can measure to confirm that is when the Boyz are being shot at and you want to give them the KFF cover save. So enemy declares shooting, you declare KFF cover save, he measures range, you measure KFF range, he shoots, he wounds, you save.

I don't like to throw this word around, but measuring before declaring is generally considered to be cheating.

Until something asks 'Are them BW Obscured?' the KFF is for all intents and purposes is non-existent.

Ugavine
The only time when one measures a distance in 40K is when one has/is told.

The_Savior wrote:Has anyone ever made a KFF? Like a ring or some type of circular display to show what units are affected?

I was thinking of making a dome shaped thing or a ring that I can mount to the base that has a 6" circle on top of it to show the KFF's affected units.

Is this even legal?

Why do several people in this thread think the marker would be 6"? It would be 12" (6" radius) + the size of the mek's base. Moving around an (approx) 14" marker or dome with the mek is going to be seriously annoying.

I'd let you get away with the premeasuring because it looked cool but I'd definitely object if you let it slow the game.

If you had a laser filtered to project a disc or circle mounted on a mast so as to project the correct radius and it had an on/off switch - that would be cool and convenient and no rules getting broken.

ETA, of course, the way that it interacts with models at different heights would be wrong (you'd be projecting a cone, not a dome) but I'd let that slide on rule of cool.

ChrisCP wrote:Ugavine
The only time when one measures a distance in 40K is when one has/is told.

sorry for hijacking the thread I just wanted to ask; can you measure models in a unit to check they are within 2", or is that also considered cheating?

Ugavine wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Ugavine
The only time when one measures a distance in 40K is when one has/is told.

sorry for hijacking the thread I just wanted to ask; can you measure models in a unit to check they are within 2", or is that also considered cheating?

You must measure models after each one moves to make sure they're within 2" coherency if there's any doubt. You can measure 2" coherency any time you like.

Scott-S6 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Has anyone ever made a KFF? Like a ring or some type of circular display to show what units are affected?

I was thinking of making a dome shaped thing or a ring that I can mount to the base that has a 6" circle on top of it to show the KFF's affected units.

Is this even legal?

Why do several people in this thread think the marker would be 6"? It would be 12" (6" radius) + the size of the mek's base. Moving around an (approx) 14" marker or dome with the mek is going to be seriously annoying.

I'd let you get away with the premeasuring because it looked cool but I'd definitely object if you let it slow the game.

If you had a laser filtered to project a disc or circle mounted on a mast so as to project the correct radius and it had an on/off switch - that would be cool and convenient and no rules getting broken.

ETA, of course, the way that it interacts with models at different heights would be wrong (you'd be projecting a cone, not a dome) but I'd let that slide on rule of cool.

You measure from around the Mek's base is why.