Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know I will get hated for this : I saw an article somewhere saying that Imperial Fists... basically suck...
It says they never win a battle (defending Terra and getting their butts saved by the Ultramarines from the Iron Hands, etc.)
I dont get it. Did I get something wrong or there's some reason that make people like Imperial Fists?
And they are Yellow, almost forgot that.

Possibly because they aren't ultramarines. People have a habit of hating one army/race/codex with something bordering on irrational passion (myself included) and conversely loving another for the inverse reason of hating the other.

Sorry if that makes little sense, boils down to "Because they aren't the boys in blue" and are still a first founding legion of some stature

besides which they do look kind of cool

Never winning? They held Terra, fight to a draw at the Iron cage trap. And a long list of triumphs (check the lexicanum)

They look cool with their colours and heraldy.

They are the very backbone of he empire, had he nicest and best Primarch, the largest imperial ship, the coolest succesors chapters and so on.

They look pretty - a well done yellow army is really striking.

Dark Scipio wrote:fight to a draw at the Iron cage trap.

Um no they lost, horribly. Perturabo was never there and the IF's walked right into the trap and were decimated, saved by the ultra marines, and left below combat effextive strength for years. Lexicanum says they were unable to fight for 19 years afterward.

Also due to the sheer ammount of IF geneseed sacrificed to the chaos gods perturabo became a daemon prince.

Pretty sure that's a massacre not a draw.

Dark Scipio wrote: nicest and best Primarch

Dorn didn't come across too well in Flight of the Eisenstein. Out of character, sloppy writing or what?

They are yellow.

Because they're stoic warriors, supposedly fitting the ideal of a warrior defending that which is valuable to him.

Necroagogo wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote: nicest and best Primarch

Dorn didn't come across too well in Flight of the Eisenstein. Out of character, sloppy writing or what?

I think most other Primarch would have killed Garro outright in that situation, Dorn's reaction to having some random captain telling him his whole world was a lie was actually pretty well protrayed IMO.



Oh, and I don't know if you can count the battle for Terra has a defeat... if it hadn't been for them, Terra would have been crushed, they managed to stalemate the chaos force long enough to save the day ultimately.

They are a 'defensive' army, meaning what they do won't always be glorious.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:fight to a draw at the Iron cage trap.

Um no they lost, horribly.

That depends on which book you believe. Chaos would say it's a horrible loss, the Fists would say it was a draw. In truth, it was probably somewhere in-between.

Melissa strict military stand point, unbiased it was a massacre. I'm going by lexicanums story.
Dorn fell right into the trap, which worked perfectly
The kill ratio was completely lopsided in IW favor
Perturabo was elevated to daemon prince
An entire loyalist legion was rendered useless for 19 years
The Iron Warriors escaped without being captured


I fail to see ANY upside for the IF that would make it a draw beside dorn surviving which in light of the other consequences is very minor, the events left dorn a broken man for years and his legion unable to fight. . .

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Melissa strict military stand point, unbiased it was a massacre. I'm going by lexicanums story.
Dorn fell right into the trap, which worked perfectly
The kill ratio was completely lopsided in IW favor
Perturabo was elevated to daemon prince
An entire loyalist legion was rendered useless for 19 years
The Iron Warriors escaped without being captured


I fail to see ANY upside for the IF that would make it a draw beside dorn surviving which in light of the other consequences is very minor, the events left dorn a broken man for years and his legion unable to fight. . .

please note that the Iron Cage was only one victory gifted to the Iron Warriors after losing ALMOST EVERY PLANET they held that was not in the EoT.

Iron Warriors may have won the battle, but they got slaughtered in the war.

Anyway, my fanboyism of the Imperial Fists fluff wise is that they hold their ground and fight until one side is completely dead. They do not relent, and they do not give up. They are what true warriors try to be, and that is what makes them awesome. They are also yellow.

Gameplay wise, playing a Fists army basically turns any infantry unit you got into a tarpit that can tie up most units for at least 2 full turns. GREAT for holding points.

I like their fluff,tactics and heraldy.Enough said.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Melissa strict military stand point, unbiased it was a massacre. I'm going by lexicanums story.
Dorn fell right into the trap, which worked perfectly
The kill ratio was completely lopsided in IW favor
Perturabo was elevated to daemon prince
An entire loyalist legion was rendered useless for 19 years
The Iron Warriors escaped without being captured


I fail to see ANY upside for the IF that would make it a draw beside dorn surviving which in light of the other consequences is very minor, the events left dorn a broken man for years and his legion unable to fight. . .

Index astartes 2 is disagreeing with your interpretation. (page 14.)
Dorn willfully entered the trap, and stubbornly fought straigth through it.
As this wasn't going anywhere, Gullyman decided to end it and interfered.
The 20 years weren't spent on beeing unable to fight, but reorganizing the IF legion into successor chapters following codex astartes
to the letter (2 of them ).

The Iron cage hints at Dorn's character : stubborn and tendencies to self-sacrifice. It doesn't hint at a massacre.

Im confused .... Need to spend time in lexicanum.... Bring on the books!

You heard right, Imperial Fists do suck. That's why they have the yellow armor. They only became Imperial Fists after the Heresy; while the Emperor was alive, they were known as The Emperor's Bladder and guarded his private latrine on the battlefield.

1hadhq wrote:The 20 years weren't spent on beeing unable to fight, but reorganizing the IF legion into successor chapters following codex astartes
to the letter (2 of them ).

On the other hand, the whole "Follow the Big Blue (?) Book" to the letter was a waste of time when it came to the Black Templars.

"Yes, we've got more than six times the amount of marines we're supposed to have, sue us!"

They have cool fluff, and their successor chapters are pretty awesome as well.

Not to mention that Lysander is a beast on the tabletop.

^^^^ Monster Rain has it right.

The yellow color scheme is really, really striking. It makes for an army that looks completely awesome on the tabletop. Also, yellow is really hard to paint, so it shows dedication on the painters' part.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I'm going by lexicanums story.

Lexicanum is neither unbiased nor a canon source.

They're popular because they suck imo. They're the defenders of Holy Terra, the underdogs of the Marines. It's why people play IG too, because everyone loves underdogs. And it's a great excuse to paint your Space Marines bright yellow.

Melissia wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I'm going by lexicanums story.

Lexicanum is neither unbiased nor a canon source.

Correction: Lexicanum is complete and utter crap that misleads, obfuscates, and generally stains the Warhammer 40,000 background. It should be purged, and until it is people should ignore it in favour of primary sources.

The Imperial Fists are everything the Ultramarines should have been as the poster boys of 40k. They've got character, they've got awesome successors, they've got a cool colour scheme (this coming from a guy who usually hates yellow).

Nurglitch wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I'm going by lexicanums story.

Lexicanum is neither unbiased nor a canon source.

Correction: Lexicanum is complete and utter crap that misleads, obfuscates, and generally stains the Warhammer 40,000 background. It should be purged, and until it is people should ignore it in favour of primary sources.

Thats, "complete and utter crap that misleads, obfuscates, and generally stains" this forum. Your post "should be purged".

The Lexicanum is a great reliable source of background information.

Nurglitch wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I'm going by lexicanums story.

Lexicanum is neither unbiased nor a canon source.

Correction: Lexicanum is complete and utter crap that misleads, obfuscates, and generally stains the Warhammer 40,000 background. It should be purged, and until it is people should ignore it in favour of primary sources.

Lexi is a tool, tools may only be used if youre aware its still your responsibility how to.


All of its sources are mentioned.
Anyone interested may look up the original source, but still there aren't many places to get a hint where to look.
Lexi provides that.

I am sure you know to distrust the internet.
So why should a site only contain perfect canonical unbiased truth?
Its as perfect as humanity is....

I personally like Imperial fists for quite a few things:

Rogal Dorn

Cool successors- Black Templars, Crimson Fists (and Soul Drinkers?)

They defend Terra, the most important planet in the IoM

They are the prime example of a disciplined, professional fighting force; in other words Ultramarines minus the fanboyism

Cool colour scheme

The Imerpial Fists defended Terra and are generally considered one of the staunchest defenders of the Imerpium after the Ultras. They had the respect of Horus (before he went traitor) and the rest of the Legions.

Whatever your interpretation of the Iron Cage is the Iron Warriors got their tails kicked back to the eye of terror only then could they stop the fists.

Rogal Dorn is also bro compared to some of the primarchs

Dark Scipio wrote:The Lexicanum is a great reliable source of background information.

Lexicanum is not a source. If you want a source, look at the books and articles Lexicanum cites, not at Lexicanum itself. It does not always cite its sources even, nor does it always actually use information from sources it cites. Nor are its writings unbiased, as they are written by fans and therefor biased towards that particular fan's point of view.

Regardless of any of this, the Iron Cage incident in most recent fluff is described from both points of view. Whether or not it is a tactical defeat, it was a strategic draw because despite falling into the trap the legion managed to pull out mostly intact, rather than being destroyed, and actually did some damage back despite how much effort was put into the trap.

I thought their story was neat, becasue it reminded me of the Battle of the Bulge and the American 101st Airborne's defense of Bastogne; they were "rescued" too, by Patton.

Melissia wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:The Lexicanum is a great reliable source of background information.

Lexicanum is not a source. If you want a source, look at the books and articles Lexicanum cites, not at Lexicanum itself. It does not always cite its sources even, nor does it always actually use information from sources it cites. Nor are its writings unbiased, as they are written by fans and therefor biased towards that particular fan's point of view.

Regardless of any of this, the Iron Cage incident in most recent fluff is described from both points of view. Whether or not it is a tactical defeat, it was a strategic draw because despite falling into the trap the legion managed to pull out mostly intact, rather than being destroyed, and actually did some damage back despite how much effort was put into the trap.

It is a source like Wikipedia...just know what you are reading just as when you look at Wikipedia...obvioulsy biased from the point of view of the writer and loose at best.

Obviously was not a decimating incident as they where able to spawn successors after the incident. I would also argue that it was a tactical defeat.