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The Sisters of Battle use a downgraded form of Power Armor, correct? One that gives increased survivability, but not strength?

I was just wondering, in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels, Amberly Vail demonstrates some Astartes-level feats of strength inside an ornate suit of Power Armor.

Is this inconsistency, or do Inquisitors get special Power Armor that's actually worth a damn, while the Sisters get cheap hand-me-downs with boobcups?

Haddi wrote:The Sisters of Battle use a downgraded form of Power Armor, correct?

No, they use a set of power armor created specifically for them, designed around a human body instead of an Astartes body. The human body, not having things like the Black carapace and being quite notably smaller (therefor giving less surface space to add in strength-enhancing fibres) has certain limitations that have to be worked around.

By the way, Inquisitors in and out of power armor are still strength 3, and they wear custom-built suits of armor (like Vail) which are often one-of-a-kind artefacts. While Astartes in and out of power armor (See scouts) are also always strength 4. Power Armor enhances strength (and good quality power armor feels like it weighs almost nothing to the user-- see Dark Heresy: Ascension), but it doesn't enhance strength drastically enough to change stats in tabletop. Amberley Vail's strength in her suit of armor is bound to be similar to that of Sisters.

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:The Sisters of Battle use a downgraded form of Power Armor, correct?

No, they use a set of power armor created specifically for them, designed around a human body instead of an Astartes body.

By the way, Inquisitors in and out of power armor are still strength 3, and they wear custom-built suits of armor (like Vail) which are often one-of-a-kind artefacts. While Astartes in and out of power armor (See scouts) are also always strength 4. Power Armor enhances strength (and good quality power armor feels like it weighs almost nothing to the user-- see Dark Heresy: Ascension), but it doesn't enhance strength drastically enough to change stats in tabletop. Amberley Vail's strength in her suit of armor is bound to be similar to that of Sisters.

Ah, I was just wondering because I remember (Perhaps incorrectly) that Vail did some ridiculous things like lifting a Truck or something along those lines whilst in the armor.

Sisters armor also does not include the more advanced features such as Target recognition, comm systems, life-support, etc, right?

Define "advanced features", then?

Certainly, Sisters armor has comm systems in them-- Cain communicates with Sisters via vox later in that very book you quote.

They also have elements of life support as well (they can operate in space for as long as the suit can continue to recycle air, for example).

And their helmets have advanced equipment such as "psycho-occular filtering" which assist in ensuring the human mind does not become addled by battlefield effects.

Well, if you consider Astartes Power Armor to be the pinnacle of protective technology (and you should!), then yes, Sisters of Battle do in fact use downgraded/inferior versions, but then, so do all 'regular' humans.

Alpharius wrote:Well, if you consider Astartes Power Armor to be the pinnacle of protective technology

If you are thinking of purely protective technology, then you would be wrong in claiming Sisters armor is less than Astartes armor. The codex very clearly and specifically states that the armor worn by Sisters of Battle provides the same level of protection as the armor worn by Astartes.

Melissia wrote:Define "advanced features", then?

Certainly, Sisters armor has comm systems in them-- Cain communicates with Sisters via vox later in that very book you quote.

They also have elements of life support as well (they can operate in space for as long as the suit can continue to recycle air, for example).

And their helmets have advanced equipment such as "psycho-occular filtering" which assist in ensuring the human mind does not become addled by battlefield effects.

I believe that I read somewhere or another that the Sisters do not have as much tidbits, gadgets, and gizmos in general as the Space Marines have, such as the Nutrient recyclers and whatnot. I don't remember what they said, but I know that the SoB Power Armor has less of SOMETHING compared to the Astartes version (And I'm not talking the strength)

Yes, the armor has less room for sucn non-essentials, being smaller and all that. But it's never really specified what exactly it is lacking, aside from having slightly less strength enhancing capabilities (because it has less of the electrically-driven muscle fibre used in power armor, because again it has less room to put it in).

Melissia wrote:Yes, the armor has less room for sucn non-essentials, being smaller and all that. But it's never really specified what exactly it is lacking, aside from having slightly less strength enhancing capabilities (because it has less of the electrically-driven muscle fibre used in power armor, because again it has less room to put it in).

Is the lack of those fibres a cost, or design issue? I mean, are they just too cheap to let the Sisters smack a heretic with a Lamp Post, or does the smaller frame they build off of prevent them from adding enough fibres to give them a noticable strength increase?

I doubt it. This si the Ecclesiarchy we're talking about. They tax the citizens a second time via tithing. The only organization which handles more money on a regular basis than the Ecclesiarchy is the Administratum.

Haddi wrote:

Melissia wrote:Define "advanced features", then?

Certainly, Sisters armor has comm systems in them-- Cain communicates with Sisters via vox later in that very book you quote.

They also have elements of life support as well (they can operate in space for as long as the suit can continue to recycle air, for example).

And their helmets have advanced equipment such as "psycho-occular filtering" which assist in ensuring the human mind does not become addled by battlefield effects.

I believe that I read somewhere or another that the Sisters do not have as much tidbits, gadgets, and gizmos in general as the Space Marines have, such as the Nutrient recyclers and whatnot. I don't remember what they said, but I know that the SoB Power Armor has less of SOMETHING compared to the Astartes version (And I'm not talking the strength)

Melissia wrote:Yes, the armor has less room for sucn non-essentials, being smaller and all that. But it's never really specified what exactly it is lacking, aside from having slightly less strength enhancing capabilities (because it has less of the electrically-driven muscle fibre used in power armor, because again it has less room to put it in).

Hence, inferior.

But, as already noted, it didn't have a chance out of the gate, given the different 'end user' in mind.

I seem to remember Vail's power armor being a little beefier than the gear the Sisters get.

There wasn't any description that supports that to my memory.

Even the most advanced suit of armor would have a hard time raising a human's strength to un-enhanced Astartes level.

The WH Codex specifies that Sororitas armour lacks the strength enhancement of Astartes armour.

That doesn't mean that Sororitas armour has no strength enhancement, just that it has less than the Astartes armour.

One of the Ciaphas Cain novels specifically states that Sororitas armour enhances strength - an Armoured sister is able to effortlessly leap over a gun emplacement without run-up.

Faith & Fire also features armoured sisters performing feats of strength that would be very difficult without enhanced strength.

It makes sense. Sororitas armour explicitly provides protection equal to that of Astartes armour, yet appears much less bulky (taking into account that Astartes are bulky without armour). The design clearly favours protection and mobility to strength.



Amberly's armour is likely far more bulky and features greater strength enhancement than Sororitas armour. It's never stated, but from the way Cain describes it, and the way Amberly acts, I picture is as more bulky than Sororitas armour. I also got the impression that Amberly's armour had a unisex design which Sororitas armour clearly does not.


In game terms, the stats are too granular to provide much information. An armoured Sister may well be able to bench press 800lb and still be STR3 in game terms. She's at the top end of STR3 while an Eldar Guardian who's spent 200 years being a poet and can just about bench 100lb is at the bottom end of STR3.

Owain wrote:I seem to remember Vail's power armor being a little beefier than the gear the Sisters get.

if you're thinking of the story i am, i think she was wearing terminator armor which is obviously beefier.

as for SOB armor, at least with the current art GW makes, it doesn't look like a 3+ armor save to me. *dodges melissia's shoe!* while it may have the am/fm radio, it certainly doesn't have the mp3 player dock of marine power armor or the 6-cd changer of terminator armor. in the end, it IS power armor and on 40k scale there isn't a difference between it and marine versions. i'm curious to see how deathwatch will treat the various types of power armor. that would probably give you the most insight as to what each type actually includes.

She was certainly not wearing Terminator Armour.

Excluding the obvious - that Terminator armour exists solely in Astartes size - there is no reason to suppose that she was wearing it.

She had no difficulty passing through regular doorways or moving around inside an Aquila shuttle wearing her armour - nor is there any evidence in the text that she was wearing anything like Terminator armour.


Fantasy Flight Games is at best a tertiary source for fluff, which is why I did not bring up their power armour details.

The Codex says that Sororitas armour grants equal protection to that of Astartes armour, so it does, it really is that simple.

As for what it looks like - that's the Ecclesiarchy for you. Everything about the Ecclesiarchy is about style over substance. Everything is designed to look impressive to the great unwashed. Especially their soldiers. I love it.

SM PA is a lot more than just protection. It enhances the astartes performance and has everything that could help a Sm added into it. It's mch more than just armour.

On the other hand SoB power armour is a stripped down version, not the whole thing. Whereas other types improve the whole of the soldier not just survivability SoB armour is just armour. SM are worth spending a lot on because that armour is protecting something the imperium has spent a lot of money producing, whereas SoB don't cost the ecclesiarchy a huge amount. SM take a lot of care when it comes to preserving their armour and will fight hard just to retrieve some PA, SoB don't as their armour isn't that expensive. Most of the tech is missing, which in 40k is the bit that's hard to replace.

Although not as good as SM armour, an inquisitor's power armour could be much better than SOB armour. Inquisitors won't be able to get all the good stuff astartes get as they are still human, but the PA is made specialy for them and depending on the importance of the Inquisitor could contain a lot of extra items that even SM armour doesn't have.


Vail's PA probably didn't raise her strength to SM levels but it could enhance it more than SoB armour does.

Azezel wrote:She was certainly not wearing Terminator Armour.

1)Excluding the obvious - that Terminator armour exists solely in Astartes size - there is no reason to suppose that she was wearing it.

She had no difficulty passing through regular doorways or moving around inside an Aquila shuttle wearing her armour - nor is there any evidence in the text that she was wearing anything like Terminator armour.

2) Fantasy Flight Games is at best a tertiary source for fluff, which is why I did not bring up their power armour details.

3)The Codex says that Sororitas armour grants equal protection to that of Astartes armour, so it does, it really is that simple.

1) you're right in that she's not.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Amberley_Vail

as for no evidence, i'd say most people reading in the 40k universe about someone wielding ancient ornate armor including a heavy weapon and powerfist will consider terminator armor as a plausible choice. as for it existing solely in astartes size, you can buy terminator armor for daemonhunter inquisitors and they're certainly not astartes. also, the guy in the attached pic below would like to have a discussion with you.

2) i guess you could consider them tertiary in that gw is primary and BL/FW is secondary, but considering that GW's own fluff is frequently retconned and/or changed, i don't think it matters much. either way, deathwatch is the officially licensed 40k marine RPG and will be used as a reference by people since GW doesn't go into that level of detail in the codex (nor do they need to for a tabletop army game)

3) yup... which is exactly what i said.

SoB power armour is like power armour in fallout, armour that protects the wearer from damage, resists chemicals, poison gas and radiation, and gives moderate strength boosts. It whats gives the sister the edge over storm troopers, or cadian kasrkin as the pinnacle of human warriors.

To compare it or any human built protection systems to SM is just wrong. (Not to say i9t doesn't give equal protection, just that its lacking all the extra bits)

@Warboss - I was wrong, about non-Astartes TA. I appologise.

As for the Fantasy Flight Games thing.

GW's official position is that there is no cannon at all. Nevertheless it generally goes Core Book>Codex>Black Library.

I would tentatively lump Imperial Armour and Fantasy Flight Games into the same catagory, just below Black Library.

That is to say, I'll accept them as 'the truth' unless something higher up the chain says otherwise.

They are both official products - all of the above are official, but since all of it contradicts the rest in some way, those of us blessed/cursed with an orderly mind really do have to draw lines somewhere...

You needn't draw them in the same place.

@EmilCrane - even Astartes armour is still human-built, at least, to the extent that anyone in the Mechanicus can be considered human...

Oh pfeh, I put FFG and Imperial Armour above Black Library. they're both far more internally consistent than Black Library is.

I always figured that all of an Inquisitors kit is likely to be specially made one-offs made by some long term friend of their mentor or some such like that.

As a result of this , an Inquisitors human-scale power armour is ikely to be much better than the common or garden variety issued to the SoB, and could be comparable to that of an Astartes.

Think of that artwork in the 40k rulebook of an inquisitor next to an Ultramarine. Those armours look pretty similar!

Why would you think Sororitas power armor is "common grade"?

There's no evidence to that. Given the fact that civilians are able to purchase power armor, I'd very much imagine that Sororitas are far above that grade (civilian class power armor has to be "common", yes?), and given the description in C:WH compared to what's in Dark Heresy there's no real reason to think otherwise.

Also, remember that throwing around terms like "equivalent", and "no difference in protection", etc. aren't terribly useful unless you define the system by which you are making these measurements.

Within the 40K, game, power armor has a 3+ save. Thus, in that game, in the way that game measures protection, there is no difference between Sororitas and Astartes power armor.

Within the larger "canon" (using the term loosely) of Warhammer 40K, different marks of Astartes power armor provide different levels of protection, as certain marks were made to address vulnerabilities in previous armor production, or were forced to "make due" due to materials and technology differences.

The term "common grade" could be used to distinguish most power armor from artificer armor, or it could be used to distinguish suits of power armor designed for the common mass of humanity (i.e., almost everyone) from those few suits designed for the modified physiology of Astartes (which are also designed to interface with the decidedly uncommon Black Carapace).

As others have pointed out, the extremely simplistic attribute system of 40K also lends itself to a great deal of equivocating. Given that virtually all humans (and most Orks, which are routinely described as much more massive and muscular than humans) are treated as Strength 3, and virtually all Astartes are treated as Strength 4 (including Astartes in carapace armor, power armor, and Terminator armor), it should be very clear that the game's "scale" doesn't lend itself to the type of measurement necessary to discuss how much (or even whether) Sororitas power armor increases the wearer's effective strength.


Sorry for a long pontification (can't sleep), but in response to the original question:

Sisters of Battle clearly do not have all of the enhancements in their armor which are included in Astartes power armor. However, the only enhancements they must lack are those that depend on the phsyiology of Astartes, such as the interface plugs of the Black Carapace. It is unclear that the "average" suit of Sororitas power armor has the same technological advancements of the "average" suit of Astartes plate. There are few stories of Sororitas being deployed in the void of space, or in the depths of the ocean, though such battles are documented for Space Marines. That may be a function of the Marine physiology, rather than the armor, however.

Inquisitors almost certainly receive armor which is superior in manufacture to that of both "standard" Sororitas and Astartes power armor. After all, an Inquisitor can requisition entire armies and condemn entire worlds. Being able to draw on more resources than most Sisters or Marines is a given. Whether that armor is superior in strength augmentation, physical protection, or whatever is not going to be standard. One Inquisitor may have elaborate hexagrammatic wards on a suit of armor which is lighter and less protective, and another may have a custom fitted suit of tactical dreadnought armor which is less cumbersome than that assigned to terminator squads.

In any case, Sororitas power armor is not "cheap hand-me-downs with boobcups". Only a small fraction of the fighting forces of the Imperium are equipped with carapace armor, and it is markedly less protective and less technically advanced than power armor. Power armor of any sort is a rare and valuable piece of equipment.

On the topic of 'boobcups', if you portray the Sororitas as the "brides of the Emperor", however symbolically, wouldn't you want to portray his brides as attractive, in general? If the Emperor only attracts fat chicks, what does that say about him?

That he's a wargamer?

I kid, I kid!

Anyway, well said DB, and probably enough said as well...

Da Butcha wrote:There are few stories of Sororitas being deployed in the void of space, or in the depths of the ocean, though such battles are documented for Space Marines.

The power armor is described as void capable in the codex. Furthermore, there actually IS a pattern of power armor for Inquisitors and their retinue-- though that is not to say all of them use the Ignatus pattern power armor, given how individualistic the Inquisition is.

On the topic of 'boobcups', if you portray the Sororitas as the "brides of the Emperor", however symbolically, wouldn't you want to portray his brides as attractive, in general? If the Emperor only attracts fat chicks, what does that say about him?

Calling them "Brides of the Emperor" after the end of the Age of Apostasy is bound to get you shot.

Melissia wrote:

On the topic of 'boobcups', if you portray the Sororitas as the "brides of the Emperor", however symbolically, wouldn't you want to portray his brides as attractive, in general? If the Emperor only attracts fat chicks, what does that say about him?

Calling them "Brides of the Emperor" after the end of the Age of Apostasy is bound to get you shot.

only if they're feeling lenient...

The pic Waboss posted above is ridiculous. How skinny would that poor Soroita have to be so that her POWER ARMOR could have the proportions of a naked woman?

Manchu wrote:The pic Waboss posted above is ridiculous. How skinny would that poor Soroita have to be so that her POWER ARMOR could have the proportions of a naked woman?

lol, that picture shows the same proportions GW does in their own art. i agree that it doesn't have the proportions power armor should and that women are objectified as sex objects in scifi including 40k but the fan art i posted isn't any different in proportion to what GW publishes.

Nonsense, in 6th edition it will be revealed that the Sororitas armor is actually a skintight body suit, and they are actually protected by the will of the emperor.

Which happens to be T4 with 3+ AS.