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I have nothing against objectifying women as sexual objects but that fanpic (which was my wallpaper for a while) is just kinda stupid in the proportions department. Not only are her boobies oddly . . . low (seriously, the more you look at them . . .) but the armor is just way, way to small for anybody but Sister Mary Anorexia. If you look at the GW-published pic, you can see that the Sorita's head is actually pretty small compared to the rest of her (including her also too-low boobies . . . maybe its the ecclesiarchical gorget?), indicating that the armor is significantly adding to her height and . . . other measurements. Meanwhile, Sister Mary Anorexia's head is either GIAGANTIC or her "power armor" actually has less armored-substance than a homemade cosplay outfit.

Haddi wrote:Nonsense, in 6th edition it will be revealed that the Sororitas armor is actually a skintight body suit, and they are actually protected by the will of the emperor.

LOL, i'm getting a picture in my head of inquisitor borat in his bathing suit protected by nothing more than his faith and a gold chain rosarius around his neck saying "very niice, heretic!".

as for the pic, i figured you were talking about her weight/BMI type proportions since you focused on her being skinny. her chest/waist/hip proportions are in line with what GW publishes but i agree her head is a bit on the bobble sized side. i'm sure the marine next to her isn't correctly proportioned either being a cartoony pic and all.

warboss wrote:LOL, i'm getting a picture in my head of inquisitor borat in his bathing suit protected by nothing more than his faith and a gold chain rosarius around his neck saying "very niice, heretic!".

And then the morning after he has an interview, in which he discusses what happened with the slaaneshi heretic. In the middle of it, he reallies what exactly the heretic did to him and breaks down and cries.

If ya want to go with a fanpic try this one.

The waist is a bit slender (and the pose strikes me as very uncomfortable), but it actually looks like she's wearing armor.

yeah, it's got a mkIII preheresy armor feel to it with all the rivets. definitely looks more armored than the usual lacquered leather armor art.

@Melissa: It got weird, didn't it? /DrEvilVoice

The hands are kinda small though, for power armor. Hrm. Ah well, it's very hard for most artists to get proportions right.

For Inquisitor Sororitas equipment was detailed in Exterminatus Issue 8 and gave them 'Power Armour'. From the Core Rules that means armour ten on all locations and a strength enhancement of one fifth. So for a Battle Sister that would be an average increase to strength of 11, given the average strength of 55.

In contrast Space Marine Power Armour had additional layers of ceramite ablative armour plus a comm-link, full auto-senses, rebreather and a de-tox injector. None of those additional items are found with non-Astartes Power Armour and hence aren't automatically available in Sororitas Power Armour. The big difference however is the strength. A Sororitas with her unmodified human strength averages 55 but an Astartes has a massive 200. The Strength enhancemnet from his Armour is almost as much as the Sororitas' own natural strength.

Even though there is always a strength enhancemnet in the Inquisitor rules you could probably rationalise the difference between Astartes and non-Astartes Power Armour by citing the various other sources which state that Space Marine Power Armour has the strength enhancing qualities that other forms of Powered Armour lack. The enhancement in Inquisitor then would be the Armours systems providing just a little bit more strength than strictly necessary where Astartes get a significant boost.

Try looking at the Deathwatch roleplay for a more recent (And therefor more canon in my view) roleplay. Though sadly Sororitas power armor is not detailed there, the enhancement Astartes get isn't that much better than Ignatus pattern power armor.

"More canon"?

"Isn't much better"?

Can we drop this now, finally?

Inquisitor was written by Gav Thorpe, you don't get much more canon than that.

Where does Ignatus pattern powered armour come from, Dark Heresy?

Gogsnik wrote:Inquisitor was written by Gav Thorpe, you don't get much more canon than that.

Where does Ignatus pattern powered armour come from, Dark Heresy?

Dark Heresy: Ascension, which was written by Andy Hoare. You don't get much more canon than that, either, and this one is more recent (so inconsistencies I would think rule in favor of it, seeing as they're both relatively equal sources, both being roleplaying games).

So, if we assume that Sisterhood Power Armour is almost identical to that of their bigger brothers, would that mean that Sister could use drop-pods if they were available? or would their non-enhanced bodies suffer too much from that method of deployment?

Well, if SOB armor is made out of Ceramite, supposedly the toughest material is the galaxy, except maybe adamantium, which is also in PA, than their armor shouldn't need to be as bulky as SM armor to offer the same protection.

Although I agree in those pictures it is a little too thin.

Lord Harrab wrote:So, if we assume that Sisterhood Power Armour is almost identical to that of their bigger brothers, would that mean that Sister could use drop-pods if they were available? or would their non-enhanced bodies suffer too much from that method of deployment?

Almost Identicle???I just got the mental image of a Space Marine trying to make do with a set of Sisters armour.


@OP- By technical definition, yes the sisters armour is a downgraded type of power armor. Look at who got the armor first and then look at what was done to the armour in order to make it work for the sisters. If they added stuff or kept stuff the same while making the armour smaller, it would be equivalent to an upgrade. If it got smaller while losing features then it is a stripped down version which by definition is a downgrade.


Now about the Strength. Who is to say the S 3 is not a boost?

By technical definition, Sisters armor is better than "standard" power armor because it is standardized and military-grade, whereas "standard" power armor-- IE, available to anyone with money-- is much lower quality. It's not a "downgrade" from standard (Astartes power armor is non-standard to begin with, seeing as nobody but Astartes can actually fit in it without it being extensively reworked.).

If I recall my fluff Melissa is spot on in that the real difference between Astartes and Sororitas armor is that the sisters don't have the black carapace and therefore cannot fully interface with the armor. This, if i remember correctly, is why Astartes power armor can monitor the health of the wearer and, in a limited sense anyway, take action if he is injured. How much the armor is capable of actually administering stimulants, pain-killers, etc. seems entirely dependent on the text being referenced. As far as the strength enhancement goes this also seems to depend on the specific text (and sometimes on the chapter within said text). In one of the BL books, I am 99% certain it is Faith and Fire, a sister of battle holds a fully grown man up by the neck using only one arm. In the very same text another sister (or possibly the same one) is pinned to the ground, and described as being physically helpless against, a really big, strong, and physically unaltered human. Needless to say, this is something of an odd discrepancy even for a BL book. I would also argue that a space marine's armor would probably be tougher because marines are so much larger and stronger that they could carry heavier armor, particularly with the black carapace to aid them. It seems to me that space marines are significantly stronger than their proportions, relative to a normal human, would lead us to believe. How much tougher the armor would be as a result of their huge physical strength, if it would be tougher at all, is debatable.

On sisters using drop pods. I am fairly sure that unaltered humans have an extremely low probability of surviving a descent in a drop pod and that this is why only the Astartes make use of them. It is their physical augmentations, not their armor, that account for this. That said, even for marines a drop pod descent, and the subsequent landing, seems to be a physically unpleasant experience to say the least.

IIRC, in Deathwatch you have to make a test in order to not be stunned or injured.

Apologies for the necropost but I had to chime in after finding this thread whilst doing my own SoB Power Armor research.

In Dark Heresy's sample mission you are sent in a droppod (and you're unaltered barely trained humans at that point, or minor psykers or tech-adepts). They hand you over a pill, if you don't take the pill you have to make a *VEEEERRY* hard check not to puke your guts out on landing. taking the pill makes it a barely passable check.

Dark Heresy is a bitch of a system.

 Melissia wrote:
Given the fact that civilians are able to purchase power armor

Whaaaaa? REALLY?!
Obviously Johnny Commoner working 6am-10pm stamping invoices for Hive World food supplies isn't gonna be getting a suit any time soon... it's possible for nobles and so on to just outright buy a suit? Didn't see that coming. I'd love to know where the fluff for this is covered, please.

Technically the biggest downfall to sororitas wearing power armor is the lack of the black carapace, which makes it more difficult for them to use it to its full effectiveness, this includes strength enhancing, ability, pretty much everything about the armor is rendered inferior due to the lack of the black carapace.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Given the fact that civilians are able to purchase power armor

Whaaaaa? REALLY?!
Obviously Johnny Commoner working 6am-10pm stamping invoices for Hive World food supplies isn't gonna be getting a suit any time soon... it's possible for nobles and so on to just outright buy a suit? Didn't see that coming. I'd love to know where the fluff for this is covered, please.

I can't find where it's outright stated, but in both Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader power armour not only has a price-tag (in throne-gelt mind you, a sort of "Inquisition scrip" used to circumvent various imperial currencies) but both make mention of "Non-military power-cells" for said armor.

It's also notable that there's "Heavy" and "Light" power armour in the "Generic civilian" category (sororitas armor being slightly better then the "Light" power armor), if your gamemaster is worth a damn there's no chance of acquiring one anywhere but a forge-world or the more opulent parts of a hive-world... but if you grease the right palms or hire out the right tech-priest to make you one, or pay your local hive-gang to steal your fellow nobleman's suit for you... you can get your hands on one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrotherVord wrote:
Technically the biggest downfall to sororitas wearing power armor is the lack of the black carapace, which makes it more difficult for them to use it to its full effectiveness, this includes strength enhancing, ability, pretty much everything about the armor is rendered inferior due to the lack of the black carapace.

I don't know about the main core 40k rules/fluff, but in deathwatch the Carapace mostly lets you move the big bulky power armor as if its a second skin so you're not as easy to hit as your size normally would make you.

I'm certain that what vail wears is artificer armor and is a subtle nod to Samus Aran.

 Azezel wrote:

Excluding the obvious - that Terminator armour exists solely in Astartes size

Obvious but wrong. Terminator armour is a weaponised variant of the suits worn by plasma reactor engineers, Ordo Malleus Inquisitors still have access to it in 40k, and have done ever since RT.

As has already been mentioned (or rather proven), the exact capabilities of Sororitas power armour differ depending upon the source one is looking at. This should come to no surprise, and it is the same for Marine power armour or any other piece of equipment that is popular enough to have been used and described in multiple books. For example, Codex fluff describes it as offering armoured protection comparable to the Marine variant, yet FFG's RPGs currently have it be 12.5-20% worse in this aspect.

Ultimately, as every so often when discussing such details, we all need to be aware of this lack in consistency between the sources, and that the decision which source to prefer must ultimately rest with us. The only constructive purpose of debates such as these should be to gather the different descriptions, or to name the various sources and their origin, enabling interested parties to look it up for themselves.

The same goes for artist renditions, of course, including fan art such as the one with the angry looking Marine (who somehow doesn't look to be the 7 feet he "should" be). Even in the very same Codex you may have different images - contrast, for example, the one already linked with this one or this one.

It would be quite in line with studio fluff for the armour to have a slimmer profile, though, given that - as per Codex: Angels of Death - the armour plates of a suit of Marine PA are "only" up to an inch (meaning ~2.5cm) thick, which surely would fit nicely onto a skintight fibre suit without too much effect on overall "thickness". In general, I tend to believe the people who think that Space Marines run around with ~10 centimeters of armour on their chest just forget about both how bulky the Astartes are even out of armour, as well as how many additional gimmicks are installed into their suits (thus basically creating a secondary layer between the armoured plating and the fibres stuffed full of internal systems). But of course, the intentional lack of consistency amidst the material means that all interpretations are equally valid, and I have seen quite a lot of fan-art calling out for even bulkier Marines.

All in all, the Codex fluff describes the Battle Sisters' power armour more as a sort of sister product (hah!) to the Marine version, rather than an off-shoot or a completely unrelated product, as the exact wording used in C:WH was that they are "based upon the same archaic systems". As has already been mentioned earlier in this thread, the lack of a Black Carapace means a lesser interfacing, resulting in the armour "foregoing the more advanced life-support systems and strength enhancing abilities used by the Space Marines". The same page also describes the suit as capable of operation in complete vacuum as well as "full-spectrum filtering and limited psycho-oculal buffering", which supposedly is some form of vision enhancement to deal with "adverse battlefield conditions".

Gogsnik wrote:In contrast Space Marine Power Armour had additional layers of ceramite ablative armour plus a comm-link, full auto-senses, rebreather and a de-tox injector. None of those additional items are found with non-Astartes Power Armour and hence aren't automatically available in Sororitas Power Armour.

This seems to be a case of two GW sources conflicting, which happens rarely (compared to licensed material), but still happens. As mentioned above, the Codex fluff grants them at the very least the rebreather, though it is probably debatable whether the "spectrum filter" and "oculal buffer" qualify as auto senses.

The ablative ceramite armour is not really worth mentioning, imho, given that it ceases to play a role as soon as someone makes the first successful attack on the Marine wearing it. Even a kid throwing a rock would cause the ablative armour to drop permanently.

Haddi wrote:Is the lack of those fibres a cost, or design issue?

I'm going solely by Codex fluff as I make these statements, but C:WH gives only the Black Carapace as the reason for the less advanced strength enhancement.
C:WH described the Battle Sisters to be equipped "with armour and weapons the equal of any Space Marine Chapter", and several codices and WD issues have noted the Sisterhood to be equipped with the finest wargear the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus can procure. In short: the Ecclesiarchy is very, very rich.

At the same time, in spite of the similarities there exists some difference in how the Battle Sisters and Space Marines deploy and fight. Whereas the Sisterhood is engaged chiefly in either quick "kill team" strikes, local purge missions, or all-out crusades with an Imperial armada at their back, there is little reason for their armour to feature many of the systems built into the Marine variant, as they simply won't be in active combat as long. Whereas a Space Marine as mankind's ultimate warrior is expected to, if need be, fight in any conditions for days on end, the Battle Sisters are more specialised, resulting in their armour being designed almost exclusively to protect rather than support, whereas for the Astartes it almost looks as if the Imperium simply stuffed as many "emergency gadgets" as they could into their armour on the off-chance that it may be useful some day. I would hazard a guess that the majority of them are on average used perhaps once a century - even if we assume that things like the drug dispenser and waste recycler are "always on" rather than being situational.

Lord Harrab wrote:So, if we assume that Sisterhood Power Armour is almost identical to that of their bigger brothers, would that mean that Sister could use drop-pods if they were available? or would their non-enhanced bodies suffer too much from that method of deployment?

You mean like in this old army list?

[edit] Oh wow, this thread is old. Sorry.

 Manchu wrote:
The pic Waboss posted above is ridiculous. How skinny would that poor Soroita have to be so that her POWER ARMOR could have the proportions of a naked woman?

Power Armor in 40K isn't hulking because it has to be, it's hulking because it wants to be.

As for the strength, we can see that a sister in armor isn't as strong as a Marine in armor. (obvious of course.) Look at the retributer figures. See how the support hand that carries the weight of the heavy weapon has an extra exoskeleton. I get the impression that the PA the sisters have is enough to handle the weight of the armor and maybe just a little more, but not much. In Hammer and Anvil the helmets provide full comms and optics and rebreather, but not much else.

@Lynata

As I mentioned, those extra pieces of equipment are not 'automatically' present. It could well be that all Sororitas armour has further modifications applied and it seems likely that many, if not all, such suits will be centuries old and would be highly modified.

As to the ablative armour, in-game it may well be redundant, but in pure background terms it highlights the extra protection of Space Marine Power Armour.

 Lynata wrote:

At the same time, in spite of the similarities there exists some difference in how the Battle Sisters and Space Marines deploy and fight. Whereas the Sisterhood is engaged chiefly in either quick "kill team" strikes, local purge missions, or all-out crusades with an Imperial armada at their back, ...

Lets not forget bodyguard and garrison duties (of holy sites, shrine world, and temples) .

Gogsnik wrote:As I mentioned, those extra pieces of equipment are not 'automatically' present. It could well be that all Sororitas armour has further modifications applied and it seems likely that many, if not all, such suits will be centuries old and would be highly modified.

And as I have mentioned (and demonstrated), the Inquisitor description is obviously at odds with the one from Codex fluff.

It is further of note that the items you listed are from a specific FAQ-like supplement for Space Marines, which (to my knowledge) none of the other classes has ever received. How do you know the same question would not have been answered in a similar fashion for them? Marine armour had no rebreather, autosenses etc. in the core rulebook either, after all.

Pick what you like more, though! For better or worse, that's how it works in 40k.

Pendix wrote:Lets not forget bodyguard and garrison duties (of holy sites, shrine world, and temples) .

Quite true.
Granted, by extension, garrison duties apply to the Space Marines as well (I think it is the 2nd or 3rd company that is usually tasked with guarding the Fortress Monastery?), but ultimately it may be said that the Battle Sisters are simply not expected to operate for prolonged periods without support. Their armour seems to reflect this in appearing "bare bones", focusing largely on armoured protection and missing out on some of the more situational gadgets.

Of course, some licensed products differ a bit from the studio background, sometimes giving them more stuff, often fewer. Something that appeals to me is the "Lite" approach I sometimes see in various novels, where meaningful additional pieces of the SM armour's equipment are added to SoB suits in a less extensive manner, such as the painkillers from Ben Counter's "Daemonblood" story - a medisuite that surely cannot compete with Marine biomonitors, but seems useful and reasonable to have even in its basic function.

 Manchu wrote:
The pic Waboss posted above is ridiculous. How skinny would that poor Soroita have to be so that her POWER ARMOR could have the proportions of a naked woman?

Everything about the Sisters is ridiculous when it comes to how they are portrayed in the art, lol.

I don't think that picture is any more or less heinous than any of the other anatomically impossible Sisters of Battle artwork.


It's Power Lingerie, because GW primarily sells the line to dudes, and to a segment of women that identify with that kind of empowerment fantasy.