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With the vast improvements lately in the range of plastics that GW now offers, I think maybe it might be cool to see something new. Special character plastic kits. Imagine Buying a box set for your special characters that includes a couple of variant heads arms, and possibly legs, glue on wargear and the like. Characters, like Ragnar that have options for wolf companions actually get their companions included and perhaps a little bit of themed scenery could be thrown in as well. I think people who don't ever plan on using said special character would still buy some of these sets for the ease in using pieces for conversions and kit bashing. It would also allow people who aren't great at conversions to still have some distinctive looking characters. Just curious to see what everyone else's take on this would be.

It's a nice idea in theory but the price hike that would undoubtedly come with it is less appealing. Most characters are expensive enough as it is.

I suspect I'm also pretty much the only one who has some love for the metal models?

Eh, I don't see why the prices would have to go up on it. You're allready paying close to $20 for any metal special character, don't see why they couldn't throw in a bit more variety and whatnot and keep the price the same or maybe even lower it a bit. Also, for anyone who has ever tried putting together some of the more outrageous multipart metals (oh, like I don't know, say maybe the shokk attack gun kit) Plastic has some major advantages over metal.... and it's less likely to explode into a million billion pieces if dropped... (that of course get lost so you end up buying another one)

Wolf Lord Ranulf wrote:Eh, I don't see why the prices would have to go up on it. You're allready paying close to $20 for any metal special character, don't see why they couldn't throw in a bit more variety and whatnot and keep the price the same or maybe even lower it a bit.

Am I the only one who had a good chuckle when reading that? Whenever GW "improves" a kit, they jack up the price. Always.

Plastic also costs them (1) Hojillion dollars to make a mold for.

To make a decent profit without the kit for 1 man costing like, 40, each kit would have to be able to make more than just 1 hero.

Say, a Blood Angel box that lets you make Sanguinor, Dante, or Tycho. More people would be buying that one box, and thus GW would make the return on the initial investment of the kit.

Shokk Attack Gun? Feh, I say, try the first generation of the Necron Monolith, now there you have a hunk of metall that was hard to construct. What the hell were they thinking back then...

Haddi wrote:Plastic also costs them (1) Hojillion dollars to make a mold for.

To make a decent profit without the kit for 1 man costing like, 40, each kit would have to be able to make more than just 1 hero.

Say, a Blood Angel box that lets you make Sanguinor, Dante, or Tycho. More people would be buying that one box, and thus GW would make the return on the initial investment of the kit.

That would be really cool, but I doubt GW would do it as they'd make more money selling a dante kit a sanguinor kit and a tycho.... Look at the plastic marine captain box (which was rather my inspiration) it sells for $20 and has more extra bits than you can shake a stick at

Wolf Lord Ranulf wrote:

Haddi wrote:Plastic also costs them (1) Hojillion dollars to make a mold for.

To make a decent profit without the kit for 1 man costing like, 40, each kit would have to be able to make more than just 1 hero.

Say, a Blood Angel box that lets you make Sanguinor, Dante, or Tycho. More people would be buying that one box, and thus GW would make the return on the initial investment of the kit.

That would be really cool, but I doubt GW would do it as they'd make more money selling a dante kit a sanguinor kit and a tycho.... Look at the plastic marine captain box (which was rather my inspiration) it sells for $20 and has more extra bits than you can shake a stick at

I love the Captain box (Was a bit disappointed with only one lightning claw though).

But towards the kit, if they produced individual plastic kits, they would most likely LOSE money. Remember, kits are an investment to GW. They take a risk whenever they make one, because they require enough money to make the initial mold (not to actually produce the sprues) that if they don't sell in ridiculous numbers (Like, say, a BA player such as myself buying 3 BA Hero kits to make Dante, Tycho, and Sanguinor) then they don't make a profit. That's why only the popular armies have a high concentration of plastic, such as the Space Marines being nearly ALL plastic ( I think the only metal are Veterans and Special Characters, right?) whilst unpopular armies like the Sororitas are nearly all metal. With metal molds, the initial cost is less, while the production cost is more. They lose money (compared to plastic kits) on really popular metal kits. If everyone who played Warhammer decided to start playing Sisters, GW would make plastic for all of them in a heartbeat.

Oops, misunderstood, thought you meant one kit that would make all three.... though I guess technically it would... you might have to bring in some extra legs and what not, but yeah, basically.

I just think the idea would be cool to see and I think they'd sell better than people tend to think because of conversion posibilities.

Wolf Lord Ranulf wrote:Eh, I don't see why the prices would have to go up on it.

Because it's GW, and if they give you more they charge you more. Plus as said above the plastic moulds are not terribly cost effective for kits that won't sell by the truck load.

Wolf Lord Ranulf wrote:Oops, misunderstood, thought you meant one kit that would make all three.... though I guess technically it would... you might have to bring in some extra legs and what not, but yeah, basically.

I just think the idea would be cool to see and I think they'd sell better than people tend to think because of conversion posibilities.

I know I'd buy kits like that iin a heartbeat. I bought DC and Sanguinary Guard, just because even though i don't personally use them in my list, the bits are simply AMAZING, and spread out around my army makes it look better then just, "Red Marines".

Plastic upgrade kits are currently $20, minimum, most more.

Metal special characters are currently $12-20.

All American dollars.

I'll continue to buy metal special characters, thanks.

Haddi wrote:I know I'd buy kits like that iin a heartbeat. I bought DC and Sanguinary Guard, just because even though i don't personally use them in my list, the bits are simply AMAZING, and spread out around my army makes it look better then just, "Red Marines".

Do they come with spare nipples?

SaintHazard wrote:Plastic upgrade kits are currently $20, minimum, most more.

Metal special characters are currently $12-20.

All American dollars.

I'll continue to buy metal special characters, thanks.

Haddi wrote:I know I'd buy kits like that iin a heartbeat. I bought DC and Sanguinary Guard, just because even though i don't personally use them in my list, the bits are simply AMAZING, and spread out around my army makes it look better then just, "Red Marines".

Do they come with spare nipples?

Of course, and for the first time, Rhino+Dreadnought size. For the Blood Angel in all of us, even if "us" is trapped in a Ceramite shell.

Oh lawd, I'm imagining Sanguinary Guard Dreadnoughts.

It's a truly comical mental image.

They're sparkly and golden, and have enormous man-pecs on either side of the sarcophagus, with half a six-pack below each.

Instead of normal Dreadnought arms, enormous muscly golden arms with twin-linked bolters with assault 2 profiles and a two-handed power weapon in each ridiculously sculpted hand.

And a screaming face where the slot in the sarcophagus should be.

Also an enormous jump pack for good measure.

SaintHazard wrote:Oh lawd, I'm imagining Sanguinary Guard Dreadnoughts.

It's a truly comical mental image.

They're sparkly and golden, and have enormous man-pecs on either side of the sarcophagus, with half a six-pack below each.

Instead of normal Dreadnought arms, enormous muscly golden arms with twin-linked bolters with assault 2 profiles and a two-handed power weapon in each ridiculously sculpted hand.

And a screaming face where the slot in the sarcophagus should be.

Also an enormous jump pack for good measure.

That sounds....
AWESOME!
I want 10!

The price would undoubtedly increase due to the increase in cost to GW. (Not proportionayley but it would go up.

Think about it more parts / poses means:
More money to design / sculpt it all.
More packing to hold it all.
More cost to tool the die.
More material.

Also what many people don't realize is that metal is cheaper than plastic for lesse quantities. How can this be? Well die casting of metals has been around for decades if not centuries so the cost to tool a die for metal is cheaper than plastic. That and plastic dies wear out faster as plastic tends to shrink as it cools. So for small runs it is cheaper to use pewter over plastic.

Actually, with the advent of lead-free pewter, I think the proper terminology is now simply the more generalized term "white metal," 'cause pewter isn't technically pewter without lead, tin, and antimony.

Bah technical BS, My point is still the same.

This is true.

The price would go up tenfold.

When making a new kit, the sales volume comes into it more than anything.
Special characters are 1 per army (some may buy to convert or for parts)

Now, compare the price of making a kit for every character, and the cost to create what is needed.

With normal unit, they know they will sell alot of them as people wont just buy 1 for thier army.




TBH, i prefer them as metal.

Vargtass wrote: Feh, I say, try the first generation of the Necron Monolith, now there you have a hunk of metall that was hard to construct.

As far as I'm aware, the current (plastic) monolith is the first and only one GW have produced. It was released with the current codex... before that, the Monolith didn't exist in the game.


On the actual topic... I rather suspect that plastic will take over completely from the metal eventually... At this point, though, Special Characters are metal because it's more economical for the number of them that sell.

Since when does it cost 1 hojillion dollars to make a plastic mold? it couldnt be more than like..1000 dollars..which for gw is nothin expensive. Hell, it could cost 100,000 dollars to make a new space marine model (not for each one, for a new mold) and they would laugh it off! thats only like...100 customers.

Jaon wrote:Since when does it cost 1 hojillion dollars to make a plastic mold? it couldnt be more than like..1000 dollars..which for gw is nothin expensive. Hell, it could cost 100,000 dollars to make a new space marine model (not for each one, for a new mold) and they would laugh it off! thats only like...100 customers.

...huh.

Someone with an actual grasp of how economics work want to chime in, or are we going to continue forming half-baked theories based on wild speculation regarding how economics work on Planet Zorblax?

Saint I'd be happy to oblige.

Let's say it costs 100,000 to make an HQ out of "pewter" and 200,000 to make one out of plastic identical. Add in all the extra bits and poses and we'll up the cost to $350,000.

This assumes the entire cost of production from concept art to product and packaging and shipping.

Now if we make the costs identical at $20.00 a piece. Here GW would need to sell 5k (models) to break even on pewter and 10k to break even on plastic.

Here we encounter a problem, GW is a business, they want to make money. Let's give them a 50% profit per model so they now need 7.5k pewter & 15k plastic, look now you need an additional 7.5k models sold.

Again the issue is that GW won't see that $20.00 in profit. My FLGS sells at 25% off GWSRP & still makes a decent profit. So I'll hazard a guess and say GW gets $10.00 per model. At this rate you will need to sell 15k more models in plastic just to make a 50% profit.


Keep in mind this was all hypothetical to show that IS cheaper to make smaller runs in metal, without extra bits. GW is a business, not UNICEF.

Edit:Also I am not adding in the risk factor, what if players decide that the unit is not a great model or is terri-bad in game (I'm looking at you capt. Badrukk) and just don't buy it. Now the money you LOST is much greater, which is bad for business.

Edit: Spelling

Jaon wrote:Since when does it cost 1 hojillion dollars to make a plastic mold? it couldnt be more than like..1000 dollars..which for gw is nothin expensive. Hell, it could cost 100,000 dollars to make a new space marine model (not for each one, for a new mold) and they would laugh it off! thats only like...100 customers.

Since GW decided to use plastics, I guess. A plastic mold is hard to make, as they need to make sure that there is sufficient pressure throughout the mold, the the mold has enough detail, and that the sprue actually would work well. That's what all those little circle things on sprues are for - to make sure that the pressure is able to fill the molde, and that the sprue can work.

I think a generic plastic kit for kitbashing characters would sell well. For example, the 17 dollar Plastic SM commander box. One for various the Ork HQs, CSM HQs, ect. The Space Marines could also probably benefit from a kit that comes with a few generic torso, leg and arm bits, and than comes with shoulder pads, heads, and weapons to make a Techmarine/MotF, Chaplain, and Librarian. Obviously, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templars could largely make due with the standard ones. Space Wolves I think would need their own, since their iconography is so vastly different then other chapters.

As for plastic special character kits, I thnk it'd be awesome, but largely impractical.

Commander Endova wrote: I think a generic plastic kit for kitbashing characters would sell well. For example, the 17 dollar Plastic SM commander box. One for various the Ork HQs, CSM HQs, ect. The Space Marines could also probably benefit from a kit that comes with a few generic torso, leg and arm bits, and than comes with shoulder pads, heads, and weapons to make a Techmarine/MotF, Chaplain, and Librarian. Obviously, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templars could largely make due with the standard ones. Space Wolves I think would need their own, since their iconography is so vastly different then other chapters.

Oh god this.
This to the maximum.
I want a plastic techmarine!

I want plastic wraithgaurd...tin at 17dollars a piece means they dont go into my army list no matter how good they are.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Saint I'd be happy to oblige.

Thank you.

Commander Endova wrote: I think a generic plastic kit for kitbashing characters would sell well. For example, the 17 dollar Plastic SM commander box. One for various the Ork HQs, CSM HQs, ect. The Space Marines could also probably benefit from a kit that comes with a few generic torso, leg and arm bits, and than comes with shoulder pads, heads, and weapons to make a Techmarine/MotF, Chaplain, and Librarian. Obviously, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templars could largely make due with the standard ones. Space Wolves I think would need their own, since their iconography is so vastly different then other chapters.

As for plastic special character kits, I thnk it'd be awesome, but largely impractical.

Kitbashers and modelers are a vocal minority amongst GW's customers, and a fickle one at that. Basing a business decision upon the needs and wants of the few people who aren't content to simply paint their metal HQs and be on their way is a risk I'd never expect to see GW take.

Unless they're stupider than I thought, and given the fact that despite all manner of griping about rising prices, hundreds of thousands of people continue to buy their products, I doubt that's the case.

SaintHazard wrote:
Kitbashers and modelers are a vocal minority amongst GW's customers, and a fickle one at that. Basing a business decision upon the needs and wants of the few people who aren't content to simply paint their metal HQs and be on their way is a risk I'd never expect to see GW take.

Unless they're stupider than I thought, and given the fact that despite all manner of griping about rising prices, hundreds of thousands of people continue to buy their products, I doubt that's the case.

As a vocal kitbasher and modeler, I find being called fickle rather offensive. J/K.

I'm wondering however, what makes you think that kitbashers are a small percentage of the community. Perhaps you have access to sales numbers I do not, but in my own experience, the plastic SM Commander kit seems to fly off shelves, and someone is almost always working on a conversion at the hobby bar where I usually go. Besides, if it was that impractical, they would pull it, or at least make it direct order. This hasn't happened, so that, in my mind, provides at least some evidence that this kitbashing kit is popular enough to warrant it's continued production.

I'm wondering what your definition of a kit bash is, I suppose. By my view of the term, any Space Wolf player that has put together a Long Fang with a missile launcher (and, lets be honest here, most of us have) has preformed a kit bash. The Space Wolf bits (torsos, legs, shoulderpads, possibly heads) come from the Space Wolf box, and the Missile launcher comes from either a Devastator or Tac Squad box. Thus, you have taken pieces from different kits and then bashed them together. You don;t have to go about it that way, of course, but I suppose for me, that's half the fun. Again, only my experience, but I hope you can see where my disagreement comes from.

The kits I'm proposing don't even need any cross-kit work. Lets go back to my favorite, the SM character box. With one box, I can make a Techmarine, OR a Librarian, OR a Chaplain. It only comes with enough bits to make one. If i want to make another, I'll still need to buy another box. I also have the option, if I wanted to, to make a Blood Angels Librarian, or a Space Wolves Iron Priest with the same kit, but again, I have to buy another box that is nearly twice the price of this box (if they can keep it at the same price as the SM Commander box) to make these conversions. Either way, that's a decent chunk of change. Furthermore, this one kit, (and I suppose the kits for the other races, if designed well) knocks out three options with one box. A kit that kills three birds with one stone, and encourages the consumer to buy additional product to use it with, seems like pretty smart buisiness sense to me.