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I was wondering the right way to use a command squad. Should I equip them with heavy weapons and put them in the back or should I just give them a medicpack and crappy weapons and just use them to give out orders?

I just use them with plasma. with a commissar usually. And a power sword. Dunno. I use them wrong though :3

The FNP isn't worth it,imo.

Which command squad? CCS needs weapons that take advantage of their BS. 4 meltas, or 4 plasmas, if you plan on being aggressive. If you plan to sit back, take a heavy weapon and a couple of grenade launchers or something that synergizes with your heavy weapon. Maybe a standard to keep your line from running.

PCS in a chimers with flamers can be fun, if a little difficult to use.

just my 2 cents

Lucid wrote:Which command squad? CCS needs weapons that take advantage of their BS. 4 meltas, or 4 plasmas, if you plan on being aggressive. If you plan to sit back, take a heavy weapon and a couple of grenade launchers or something that synergizes with your heavy weapon. Maybe a standard to keep your line from running.

100%

As to PCS, I actually wouldn't upgrade them at all, except for maybe a vox. They're a source of cheap orders--nothing more.

I use a CCS with 3 plasma guns, a medic, and a plasma pistol. I know the medic is a pointsink, but I like having my guys be semi-survivable. My CCS rolls around in their Chimera and blasts MC's, Termies, Side Armor...anything, really.

Now, a PCS, I would probably give them 4x melta and a chimera, you have a good-to go suicide squad for 125 points. Even at BS3, remember that they can dole out orders, so with BiD, they can take down AV14 fairly easily.

Gavo wrote:I use a CCS with 3 plasma guns, a medic, and a plasma pistol. I know the medic is a pointsink, but I like having my guys be semi-survivable. My CCS rolls around in their Chimera and blasts MC's, Termies, Side Armor...anything, really.

Now, a PCS, I would probably give them 4x melta and a chimera, you have a good-to go suicide squad for 125 points. Even at BS3, remember that they can dole out orders, so with BiD, they can take down AV14 fairly easily.

PCS cannot Issue BiD; and if they are in a transport cannot be Issued BiD.

OP: depends on the role they are going to Play.

Basically anything i say will just amont to the following:

Lucid +1

I like running my command squads mounted. CCS usually gets 3/4 meltas, pcs gets 4 flamers.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Gavo wrote:I use a CCS with 3 plasma guns, a medic, and a plasma pistol. I know the medic is a pointsink, but I like having my guys be semi-survivable. My CCS rolls around in their Chimera and blasts MC's, Termies, Side Armor...anything, really.

Now, a PCS, I would probably give them 4x melta and a chimera, you have a good-to go suicide squad for 125 points. Even at BS3, remember that they can dole out orders, so with BiD, they can take down AV14 fairly easily.

PCS cannot Issue BiD; and if they are in a transport cannot be Issued BiD.

I haven't used them for a while. Well, then, the PCS usually does well with 4x flamer.

I used to run 3 plasma guns a plasma pistol and a medkit + advisors, but then i replaced the plasma pistol with a power fist and killed a daemon prince, so this kinda swayed me a tad.

I think the powerfist/weapon options are useless on such a small IG squad - many opponents will wipe it out immediately, and usually the weapon will only get to swing once before the owner is killed.

Pack the squad with special weapons, take a vox if your army is infantry-based. Transports if your army is mechanised or mixed.

Always take the special weapons, anyway. It's like a half-price veteran or SWS, and in the PCS case you have to take it anyway. Think of the orders and weapons as seperate halves of the unit's raison d'etre. In the case of a PCS, the weapons are usually more important IMO!

I am a big fan of the combination powerfist/bodyguard/standard. put some meltaguns and an advisor into it, and if you have the points, take medic and carapace and you have a real CC sqaud which beats the hell out of any regulars and can still cope with things like Daemon princes. With Straken in it, the squad can march through a whole army if you use it correctly.

i generally use it for medium range support (due to the bs4 of the vets in the squad) and issuing orders. i've got a power weapon on the commander since i play WYSIWIG and the model does; when i eventually get around to redoing my commander (the old 3rd edition metal cadian monocle guy), i'll get rid of that upgrade and save 10 points. in addition, i've got two snipers and grenade launchers modelled for the squad to provide medium range (18-24") fire support. finally, a vox so that i can reroll the crucial FRFSRF order to my blob squad. i've found that having multiple roles for a guard unit usually means you've overspent points and they dont do anything well. if you're not mounting them in vehicles, i don't think plasma or melta is a good choice as you'll probably be keeping them *behind* other less valuable troops, giving the enemy a 4+ cover save and negating half the value of the plasma/melta weapons.

if you're going for an assault heavy army (check out allaros's battle reports for an example with pics), i'd say add body guards and powerweapons. if you're going with shooty horde, then just a vox and CHEAP weapon upgrades like i did above. if you're going with the mounted veteran IG army, arm them with plasma or meltas (including a plasma pistol) and put them in a chimera/valkyrie. it all depends on what your overall plan for the army is.

I think the general theme here is that there are a ton of useful ways to build command squads, and you need to figure out what it is you want them to do.

I play with alot of infantry, including HWS's, so I always have a regimental standard in my CCS, and usually keep it cheap with just a mortar. At higher point levels I hide a Lord Commissar in there for the ld10 bubble. Once he's there, that squad has 10 wounds so I add a medic as well.

My PCS's are usually 4x flamers and 4x GL's, usually mounted in chims. I agree with IBHtE, the weapons are more important than the orders.

I like adding bolters to command squads with ranged weapons - I hate having the best BS in the army standing there with their pistools in their hands while the rest of the squad blazes away.

MekanobSamael wrote:

Lucid wrote:Which command squad? CCS needs weapons that take advantage of their BS. 4 meltas, or 4 plasmas, if you plan on being aggressive. If you plan to sit back, take a heavy weapon and a couple of grenade launchers or something that synergizes with your heavy weapon. Maybe a standard to keep your line from running.

100%

As to PCS, I actually wouldn't upgrade them at all, except for maybe a vox. They're a source of cheap orders--nothing more.

They're a cheap disposable unit that will (statistically) hit with the same number of meltas as a Vet squad, but a lot cheaper. Four shots at BS 3 vice 3 shots at BS 4. By the odds, both will score two hits. I have hardly ever used PCS for orders, but then my main infantry is two 30 man blobs, so I seldom use more than two orders from my CCS.

That's interesting, I never thought about the odds of 3x BS4 meltas vs 4x BS3 meltas. Food for thought!

I personally am a fan of the flamer PCS (giggle). That unit has done a remarkable amount of damage on a number of occasions. There is nothing like rolling up to a 8-strong Genestealer unit and putting 32 cover-ignoring hits on it

Heck, this unit even managed to kill a few Terminators one game. Force the eneme to take enough saves, and sooner or later he'll throw a few 1's!

This is a really good thread. Going to totally reconfigure my command squads as a result of posts here.

Also now planning on taking a second CCS for my hybrid army--one to stand at the back with a heavy weapon and standard ordering the HWSs, and another to zoom up in a chimera with melta.

I used to run a choppy SO in 4th ed, and it did surprisingly well, given its small size.

The only reason I don't run it that way anymore is because everybody got BS4 and special weapons got so much relatively better in 5th ed.

At some point, I'm thinking I might give choppy officer squads another try, but the idea of boosting the squad's assault power with a commissar makes me uneasy, at best.

-Nazdreg- wrote:I am a big fan of the combination powerfist/bodyguard/standard. put some meltaguns and an advisor into it, and if you have the points, take medic and carapace and you have a real CC sqaud which beats the hell out of any regulars and can still cope with things like Daemon princes. With Straken in it, the squad can march through a whole army if you use it correctly.

Sorry mate, but I really really disagree with this statement. Straken is the only cc upgrade an IG CCS should ever take. And while he's a nice bonus, it doesn't make a real hammer assault squad. Let's see how tough of an IG CCS we can make: Straken, carapace armour, medic, 2 bodyguards: 225 points. Special weapons might be helpful here, but other things like standards, voxes, advisors don't really help close combat. This squad still doesn't have many attacks, and it still only has one model with good attacks, the rest are S4 on the charge. Say the squad takes no casualties (even though it's a point sink, and lots of weapons strip it of the extra armour/FNP) and charges into combat. 20 S4 attacks, and Straken's 5(?) S6 power weapon attacks. That's rather less dangerous than a space marine assault squad. 225 points. A unit of TH/SS terminators costs 200 points. 'Nuff said.

IG cannot make a CCS into a close combat monster, there are units in almost every other army that will stomp such a squad into the dirt. If you take such a squad, you are essentially waiting to come up against an assault army that will laugh and take the free KP. Also, if you come up against a really shooty army, you pay a lot for a unit that will still get messed up by S6+, AP4, heavy flamers, etc.

OK lets list the things that strakens squad did actually kill in one game...:

Winged hive tyrant with 3 wounds, Mawloc with 5 wounds, 10 stealers+brood lord, 3 tyranid warriors. Thats about 600p and some real opponents in it. Quite good performance eh? And the sqaud was still standing (just straken and the medic actually ). Of course it was abit lucky some times, but it wasnt as lucky as it looks. This squad IS powerful.

Comparing that to a normal CCS in that fashion (without carapace and medic just with 2 melta standard astropath bodyguard and fist-officer): Last tournament they beat a daemon prince to death and took one wound from a greater daemon and immobilized a raider one game before they died, then killed assaulting wolf scouts another game and barely survived (2 ccw-meq assaulting is hard stuff for them too).
Last game they made decisive wounds on wyches to rout them and took down two raiders and only lost one guy.

The 30 points for fist and bodyguard are a great enhance for the cc capability. so they are not as suicidal as they are without. Standard is almost a must have to keep everything around it in a nice shape (HWS receiving casualties, Veterans bailing out of destroyed chims or receiving casualties, the squad itself to hold in cc) so I think we dont talk about a point sink

i'd say straken's biggest plus is that he makes the blob squads around him that much tougher. for 90 points (IIRC), you can make 2 or 3 horde squads have furious charge and counterattack; that's where his strength lies. throw in a few powerweapons and a priest for each and you've got an IG army that is to be feared in close combat!

Nazdreg, I'd say quite a lucky performance........

There's several ways actually to use a CCS so you need pick out the best for you depending on your army style.

You can go all specials. I personally like plasma guns and either or with medic or carapace which gives you 4 plasmas instead of 3. These make a good fire base which can tackle monstrous creatures and Terminators etc. Even with just 3 plasmas you're still dishing out 6 shots which is pretty decent and can maul Terminators and probably seriously wound a M.C or put it down. If you value your troops you could use them as suicide melta, throw them in a Valkyrie etc and send them forward; you'll lose the orders though as they'll die. I probably wouldn't go flamers though, too short ranged and you'll spend more time getting into range and won't have a huge damage out put.

You could go combat route, but only do this with Strakken. He gives all units F.C so adding a standard would be helpful along with some flamers, carapace, medic and perhaps Mork as a tough bodyguard. It's a costly unit though.

If going on foot consider Creed. He can issue several orders with a better range. Keep it static though so can reach all your gunlines so something like autocannon is ok, perhaps grenade launcher too.

Personally, mass plasma in a Chimera works well. I wouldn't go Strakken route and Creed would be only viable in foot lists.

@don mondo

Of course everything worked there and the performance was a bit over average. But 300-400p killing in CC you can expect from that squad if confronted with the right opponents and if supported. You cannot throw Straken on his own into the enemy and watch him killing an army that is certain, but against MEQ regulars he is devastating. And 4++ is a very good save. Almost 2+

@topic

Of course there are many ways. On foot, I would suggest Creed too, but only in 2000p+ games, because he has to make really good use of his orders. Give him a las-/autocannon, camo and vox guy and thats it.

You can go for special weapons, but I would always recommend the standard even in a mech army. And I would recommend the Meltagun, because the HQ is more likely to get out of their vehicle under enemies pressure than veterans. And the order should be used... The veterans can then finish the job with flamers/plasmaguns out of their safe chimera

How to use it properly? Always go for the enemy in groups with a clear job for each member, so, that at the end of your action, your target is dead or disabled and can not strike back properly and ignore targets you can not deal with properly until you worked them down into the right shape to receive the killing blow. (As the tactica imperialis states correctly...)
Orders and things like the standard are important, so make sure, you save the HQ as long as you can. Use cover, shoot from behind your tanks so that the enemy can not assault, sometimes encourage the enemy to assault if that is part of your plan to lure him into a trap. Be careful how to face your tanks (remember the 3+ save for the angled shot, so if possible show the enemy only the front and in the right angle to receive the 3+ save while the enemy has to shoot the front. So you can wait with smoke launchers for the 12" chim-assault). Dont expect too much and dont throw away a single soldier. Each soldier can be the decisive one

My CCS: Sometimes standard & mortar, sometimes two plasma + medic.
PCS: 4 flamers positioned to counterattack.

Hey, now, don't be so hard on choppy CCSs. If you take a regular CCS with a commissar, both with power fists, along with a couple of bodyguards and a standard, you're looking at 160 points for putting down 7 S6 power weapons on the charge (who also get +1 to combat resolution and are stubborn and reroll morale checks). Take out the standard and the squad is nearly as good for only 145 points.

This squad is going to put down about 4 terminators on the charge for WAY fewer points than the terminators cost. Also, they can be used to put down some wounds against those dreaded monstrous creatures and are even plenty useful against vehicles in a pinch.

They're not the omg-best-unit-evar, but they're very reasonably priced, and can actually get stuff done.

Ailaros wrote:Hey, now, don't be so hard on choppy CCSs. If you take a regular CCS with a commissar, both with power fists, along with a couple of bodyguards and a standard, you're looking at 160 points for putting down 7 S6 power weapons on the charge (who also get +1 to combat resolution and are stubborn and reroll morale checks). Take out the standard and the squad is nearly as good for only 145 points.

This squad is going to put down about 4 terminators on the charge for WAY fewer points than the terminators cost. Also, they can be used to put down some wounds against those dreaded monstrous creatures and are even plenty useful against vehicles in a pinch.

Eh? LC Teminators will eat that squad for breakfast, and TH SS Terminators stand a pretty good chance of swatting them as well. The only Terminators you may beat up are standard ones w/ power fists, but I've never seen them run since the assault variety got so good, and even then they'll smack you back with their fists just the same. Moreover, when will you manage to ever get the charge on Assault Terminators? Assaulting MCs? Why? Why spend the points on a poor unit tooling them up for a job they do not excel at merely to chip off a wound when you could pretty much kill that MC *on its own* in one round of shooting if you equipped them properly?

A full plasma CCS, in a Chimera, is only 5 points more than your choppy one, and stands a much higher chance of actually doing some damage. And I can hide that unit in a Chimera for extra protection and still be 100% effective.

Stick to guns, and only foster the idea of a stabby CCS if you include Straken. *Then* they may cause some damage.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote: A full plasma CCS, in a Chimera, is only 5 points more than your choppy one, and stands a much higher chance of actually doing some damage. And I can hide that unit in a Chimera for extra protection and still be 100% effective.

Stick to guns, and only foster the idea of a stabby CCS if you include Straken. *Then* they may cause some damage.

L. Wrex

I couldn't agree more! ^^^

It seems to me a cc ccs, with or without Straken, it should be used in tandem with a cc blob or Ogryns that can take the brunt of an assault. It adds a little punch (especially to ogryns who lack power weapons) and protects the ccs, or at least forces your opponent allocate attacks one way or another.

I've never used them as such, but I like the idea.

Lucid wrote:It seems to me a cc ccs, with or without Straken, it should be used in tandem with a cc blob or Ogryns that can take the brunt of an assault. It adds a little punch (especially to ogryns who lack power weapons) and protects the ccs, or at least forces your opponent allocate attacks one way or another.

I've never used them as such, but I like the idea.

They're just too fragile, imho. the IG don't really do CC well, again imho.
blobs can get away with it due to numbers and the hidden PW. Most CCS won't live long enough to swing back.
But if they have 3-4 Meltas/Plasmas, they can do alot more at range safe in their ride. and hopefully over several turns.

Ailaros wrote:Hey, now, don't be so hard on choppy CCSs. If you take a regular CCS with a commissar, both with power fists, along with a couple of bodyguards and a standard, you're looking at 160 points for putting down 7 S6 power weapons on the charge (who also get +1 to combat resolution and are stubborn and reroll morale checks). Take out the standard and the squad is nearly as good for only 145 points.

This squad is going to put down about 4 terminators on the charge for WAY fewer points than the terminators cost. Also, they can be used to put down some wounds against those dreaded monstrous creatures and are even plenty useful against vehicles in a pinch.

They're not the omg-best-unit-evar, but they're very reasonably priced, and can actually get stuff done.

Regular CCS do not have the option of taking a commissar. The IC Lord Commissar can be attached with the obvious drawbacks.