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(My lists below)

I played a couple games already with my BA list and have gotten a few suggestions and have found a few weaknesses. First off I have an extremely hard time vs anything AV 13/14. (Ven Dred, LR, etc.) Unless I hit my rending on my TL AsC I can't do anything to really pop it without getting a RB close for Meltas. Any BA players or people who have played again mech BA players have suggestions on what to do?

These suggestions have been given to me:
TL Las/Sponsoon Las Predator
Devastator Squads
TL Las on half my Razors over TL AsC
Dread with 2x TL AC (AutoCannon)
Putting Hunter Killer Missles on everything..

I was also suggested to go Land Raiders or Storm Ravens instead of cheap RBs w/ weapons.


What do you guys think of each of these suggestions? Which would be the best option?


OT: For those of you that play Mech BA do you guys usually move Flatout 1st turn and smoke for that 6+ to hit and smoke cover? Or do you move 12" usually only so you can fire your RB equipped weapons?



1500 point list 1
--------------
Librarian
Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Devastator Squad
Multi-melta x 4 (Combi on Sgt?)
Drop Pod

Vindicator

Vindicator




1500 point list 2
--------------
Lemartes
Death Co. Squad
Power Weapon x 3
Stormraven
TL Assault Cannons
TL Multi-melta
Extra Armor
Furioso Dreadnaught

Librarian
Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters


Update:
Edited my 1500 point list. Most of the time I've been playing 1500 pts now instead of 1000. Built up my army enough to be able to play higher

Stormraven + TL Multi-melta was very underwhelming. The TL was awesome but with only 1 melta it wasn't a very sure fire way to do any AV12/13/14 killing...

I NEED some advice on getting down some AV12/13/14 in a BA RB Mech list. Basically the people we play with most run really high/high AV things like LRs, ven dreds and StormRavens with a bunch of DC or punch in your face units. I can't pop them before they get to me so I always get popped and charged and DC wreck my 5 man RAS's from the RB they popped easily. I really appreciate everyones advice on doing jump things here and there with meltas but it seems everyones opinions are scattered too much that not really everyone comes to a consensus. I don't want to purchase some guys or more mech and them be underwhelming again.

Another thing. It's usually best to move RBs 12 and shoot the TL AsC so you can pray you get that high AVs armor with a rending shot instead of flatout 18" but if you don't pierce the armor it's kind of just bye bye for the RB or they get immobilized or something. I'm having a hard time with this again these high AV things and even with my Melta + Infernus guys coming out of the vehicles. Since theres no packs I have to hope I get close enough to be able to do the 2d6 rolls. For Infernus Pistols thats 3"... >_< (Hard to do with infantry guys) So that's not a very reliable way at all to pop high AV's. Do-able yes, reliable no.


Ideas:
1) Most of my stuff is really fast so I was thinking of maybe doing a frontline of Baals for being shields, RB's in behind them w/ Attack bikes w/ Multi-meltas to rush in turn 2 and Melta stuff...

2) Vanguard Vets, 2 Power Fists and melta bombs or some combo of high AV killing things since they can assault after they deepstrike. But then again, if I DS the wrong way it's gonna suck anyways and now their just cannon fodder and gives the enemy something easy to shoot at.

3) Drop Pod Furioso' Dreads with Melta/Flamer combo. Melta, hope to kill the vehicle. Get assaulted but shouldn't be too bad if I get a SR or LR down. Easily make up his points.

4) One of my probably favorite ideas... More mech in getting regular Predators with TL AsC + Las Sponsoons. (I love tanks and how BA is fast as well!)

5) Other favorite idea...Drop Podding Dev Squad with all Multi-Meltas


OT Question: If a Predator moves 12" can it fire both it's Las Sponsoons or just 1 side? Must both it's Sponsoons be in "true line of sight" of something to shoot at it? If only 1 is in "true los" can it fire by itself? If 1 of the sponsoons has sight but the other does, can they both shoot the same target or only the one that has the sight?

Well, its a built-in weakness.
I'd drop the DC and add a Honor Guard with 4 meltas.

You dont need an honor guard as you should be trying to stay in the RB's as much as possible. My ? is why not twl plasma and lascannon combo. I have found it deadly against every army and since your going to want to stay away moving 6" is way better than 12", especially firing two weapons. I don't think I have seen a single list that has had this combo besides mine. Also if your going to take reg. preads go with autocannon lascannons, cheaper and very effective. Also I know people are going to advise against this but I like power fist in at least some of the squads, If an ironclad lands and your shooting goes to crap you will want those fist. I know from personnell experince. IMO hand flamers and infernus pistol aren't that good in this list, as they cost alot and are really short in range. The librarian with shield is your best friend when playing mech angels. giving the 5+ up to any model in 6" of his RB is great, it's saved my ass more than once. Death co. arent need in this list.
In my 1000 pt list I have 3 preads and 3 RBs 1 w/ twl heavy bolter, other 2 w/ twl plasma and lascanno. and either two baals or 2 regular preads with autocannon lascannon, and a librarian. In my 1850 I run 6 preads with 5 RB, 2 librarians w/ shield and sword or unleash rage. And as the win/loss/tie goes my record is 16/2/2, both losses came from stupidity and bad rolling, they were vulkan drop list with 5 dreads, and a plague marine army. The vulckan list gave me problems with the ironclads just being to close and the plague marine army was my fault as i kept moving to close two him. The two draws came from the mission that there are only 2 objectives in. IF you want I can post the army up here later.

Remodel those assault squad sergeants - Power Fists and Melta Pistols (or just Bolt Pistols) will substantially increase your ability to kill heavy armor.

Also, why are you sacking your jump packs for cheap transports? Don't do that. Seriously, man, if you need more firepower, get a predator w/LC sponsons. Your assault squads need to have jump packs.

The point of a Mech BA Razor list is to equip them with cheap RAS with some special weapons since they make the transport cheaper + allow a special weapon @ only 5 models / unit.

@Tear of the Angel: Nice to hear you have great experience with the list. I think I might try out the TL Lascannon. Why would you get TL Plasma/LasC over TL Lascannon if your primary concern is AV13/14? Were you just sharing your list or giving me suggestions to change my list too? With units that become grounded because I destroy their transport I usually just "kite" them around the board with my fast movement and fire at them from safe distances.

I definitely understand that Death Co. are not needed in the list. Sad though because they were my favorite + running with a Reclusiarch makes it so much deadlier as well. Gave me some strength on foot but I get where your coming from.

If I replace that with 5 RAS + Librarian I will for sure have quite a few more points left over. I'll think of removing the Infernus Pistol and hand flamers to free up more points and see what I can fit in.

Could I get a list posted from you please? My favorite part about the lists you were talking about are the high amount of predators. I LOVE predators. Currently have 2 in my 1500 (possibly going to more) and since your saying you had 3 in your 1000 point list I think I might try that out. I was afraid that they were too much to put more than 1 in a 1000 point army...but if you have had good success with them and even running 3! Then they must be pulling their own weight somewhere

I have no problem posting the list. The answer to your question about the RB weapons is it gives you that extra shot against low armor saves like termies or eavy orks, and also eats right through FnP. If your moving 12" everytime, you are likely to end up to close to their models bad news for you.
Heres my 1850 and 1000 pt list.
1000 pts
Hq-
Librarian w/ shield of Sanguinus, and unleash rage 100 pts
Trps-
5 assault marines w/ meltagun Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun lascannon 165 pts
5 assault marines w/ meltagun, power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 180 pts
5 assault marines w/ meltagun, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolters 130 pts
Fst-
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Hvy-
Pread w/ autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts

My 1850 is kind of the same with a few differences.
Hq-
Librarian w/ shield, rage 100 pts
Librarian w/ shield, sword 100 pts
Trps-
5 assault marines w/ powerfist, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolter 145 pts
5 assault marines w/ powerfist, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolter 145 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 170 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 170 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, meltagun Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 180 pts
Fst-
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Hvy-
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts

So those are the two list I've been running. Everyone around here has asked me to stop for awhile and try something else. Let me know what you think.

I will try that out. I especially like your Pred w/ AC + Las Sponsoons. Hopefully that will provide me with enough anti av 13/14.

So for av 13/14 armor you pretty much spam all your Las Cannons on the target, let's say a LR. Do you usually have a good chance at hitting them considering it's only 1 shot per Las? Isn't statistically more TL AsC going to take down a av13/14 since theres 4 shots? Just curious what your thoughts on that is.

Ditch the DC w/ Reclusiarch as an HQ, just use a Librarian instead, if you are going mech you dont want to futz around as much with the guys being in or out of transports and the libby can use powers from inside his car.
For the Razorbacks, drop the infernus pistols from the sarges and buff them out to be the Las/Plas variety, give yourself some more bang for your buck.
The Baals work best when you are moving them, spending 30 pts on the sponsons never ends up being the best investment.

@Slick: The lib can use powers from inside the RB like Blood Lance and Shield of Sanguin even though there are no shooting holes?

Slick wrote:
For the Razorbacks, drop the infernus pistols from the sarges and buff them out to be the Las/Plas variety, give yourself some more bang for your buck.

Also, just as an fyi, statistically speaking, twin-linked assault cannons are better than any other razorback variant, for all armor types and infantry. I'll see if I can dig up the numbers.

Edit:

Here we go:

Single Assault Cannon

AV10
4x(66.7%) chance to hit = 2.667 hits at BS4
2.667x(33.3%) chance to penetrate = 0.888 Penetrating Hits
0.888x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 29.570% chance of destroying AV10

AV11
4x(66.7%) chance to hit = 2.667 hits at BS4
2.667x(16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.444 Penetrating Hits
0.444x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 14.785% chance of destroying AV11

AV12
4x(66.7%) chance to hit = 2.667 hits at BS4
2.667x(16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.444 Penetrating Hits
0.444 x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 14.785% chance of destroying AV12

AV13
4x(66.7%) chance to hit = 2.667 hits at BS4
2.667x(11.1%) chance to penetrate (16.7% to rend and 66.7% to roll a 3+) = 0.296 penetrating hits
0.296x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 9.857% chance of destroying AV 13

AV14
4x(66.7%) chance to hit = 2.667 hits at BS4
2.667x(5.6%) chance to penetrate (16.7% to rend and 33.3% to roll a 5+) = 0.147 penetrating hits
0.147x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 4.895% chance of destroying AV 14

Single Lascannon

AV10
1x(66.7%) chance to hit = 0.667 hits at BS4
0.667x(83.3%) chance to penetrate = 0.556 Penetrating Hits
0.556x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 18.515% chance of destroying AV10

AV11
1x(66.7%) chance to hit = 0.667 hits at BS4
0.667x(66.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.445 Penetrating Hits
0.445x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 14.819% chance of destroying AV11

AV12
1x(66.7%) chance to hit = 0.667 hits at BS4
0.667x(50.0%) chance to penetrate = 0.333 Penetrating Hits
0.333x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 11.089% chance of destroying AV12

AV13
1x(66.7%) chance to hit = 0.667 hits at BS4
0.667x(33.3%) chance to penetrate = 0.222 Penetrating Hits
0.222x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 7.393% chance of destroying AV 13

AV14
1x(66.7%) chance to hit = 0.667 hits at BS4
0.667x(16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.111 Penetrating Hits
0.111x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 3.696% chance of destroying AV 14

Twin Linked Assault Cannon

AV10
4x(88.9%) chance to hit = 3.556 hits at BS4
3.556x(33.3%) chance to penetrate = 1.184 Penetrating Hits
1.184x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 39.077% chance of destroying AV10

AV11
4x(88.9%) chance to hit = 3.556 hits at BS4
3.556x (16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.594 Penetrating Hits
0.594x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 19.780% chance of destroying AV11

AV12
4x(88.9%) chance to hit = 3.556 hits at BS4
3.556x (16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.594 Penetrating Hits
0.594x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 19.780% chance of destroying AV12

AV13
4x(88.9%) chance to hit = 3.556 hits at BS4
3.556x (11.1%) chance to penetrate (16.7% to rend and 66.7% to roll a 3+) = 0.395 penetrating hits
0.395x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 13.154% chance of destroying AV 13

AV14
4x(88.9%) chance to hit = 3.556 hits at BS4
3.556x (5.6%) chance to penetrate (16.7% to rend and 33.3% to roll a 5+) = 0.199 penetrating hits
0.199x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 6.631% chance of destroying AV 14

Twin Linked Lascannon

AV10
1x(88.9%)chance to hit = 0.889 hits at BS4
0.889x(83.3%) chance to penetrate = 0.741 Penetrating Hits
0.741x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 24.675% chance of destroying AV10

AV11
1x(88.9%)chance to hit = 0.889 hits at BS4
0.889x (66.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.593 Penetrating Hits
0.593x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 19.747% chance of destroying AV11

AV12
1x(88.9%)chance to hit = 0.889 hits at BS4
0.889x (50.0%) chance to penetrate = 0.445 Penetrating Hits
0.445x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 14.819% chance of destroying AV12

AV13
1x(88.9%)chance to hit = 0.889 hits at BS4
0.889x (33.3%) chance to penetrate = 0.296 Penetrating Hits
0.296x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 9.858% chance of destroying AV 13

AV14
1x(88.9%)chance to hit = 0.889 hits at BS4
0.889x (16.7%) chance to penetrate = 0.148 Penetrating Hits
0.148x(33.3%) chance to wreck or explode = 4.944% chance of destroying AV 14

The only thing these tables show is the weapons probability to DESTROY a vehicle at the list armor values. I did not take the time to calculate the probability for a simple damage result, which would be dealing with far larger numbers across the board. Additionally, I did not calculate the probability for a Twin linked Assault Cannon because doing a Binomial Distribution and factoring in a reroll across 4D6 is beyond my mathematical prowess. Should anyone care to do so, be my guest.

As you can see, the Assault Cannon performs better than the Lascannon across the board, and when Twin Linked, the Lascannons numbers only just edge out the single Assault Cannons numbers. The only advantage a Lascannon has over an Assault Cannon against Vehicles is range.

Against infantry and MC's the Twin Linked Assault Cannon is also the clear victor with a constant 59.4% chance to cause a wound with no armor save regardless of toughness, plus any additional hits that roll sufficiently high enough to wound but don't rend. Against T8 the Assault Cannon has a 59.4% chance to wound with no armor save and the Lascannon has a 59.3% chance to wound with no armor save. Of course both weapons suffer when you factor cover into the equation but the Assault Cannon still wins overall by a large margin as toughness drops, with more than a 130% chance to kill a Space Marine.

From http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4872047

With that said, I like to run Tactical Squads with Razorbacks. A little more expensive than an Assault Squad with Razorbacks, yes, but I get a combat squadded unit - 5 men with a power fist and a meltagun in the twin-linked assault cannon razorback and 5 men standing in the backfield (on an objective) covered by a Sang Priest bubble. I have two of these. That gives me, at the very least, two lascannons and two fast-moving twin-linked assault cannons. Not saying that I don't take assault squads (for added oomph!), but I like this as my core for now.

Well I guess statisically the assault cannon is better but that relying on a lot of 6's. It's realy upto, play with the list proxy some models and decide what you like. The assault cannon doesnt mean crap against feel no pain. as to where 2 plasma and a lascannon will eat through it. and has the power to go through AV 13/ 14. But in the end you have to decide whats best for you.

@Puma: I knew I saw those statistics somewhere before...that was the first reason I chose TL AsC. In order for me to actually make a difference in annihilating those AV13/14 vehicles I think I'm just going to have to go with some melta somewhere.

That's probably the most reliable way to do it while keeping the consistency and reliability of my TL AsC...

Maybe a Dev Squad in a RB with 4 Multi-meltas? That's kind of a huge investment...

Stormraven? Attack Bike Squad?

Looking across all my options I think Attack Bike Squad would probably bet he most reliable...Anyone have any thoughts on this?

@TotA: I'd drop one Librarian and one Razorback unit and take a cc oriented unit in a Razorback or Rhino.

The only weapon really worth it to take out AV 13/14 is melta in all honesty. yes Lascannons can do it, but they are bad at it. Yes Assault cannons are better at it than the Las, but still not great. Melta gives you a 58% chance to pen AV14 on a hit compared to only 16% with a Lascannon and it is AP 1 for that extra goodness on the damage table. I would suggest you continue the light fast armor span with some MM/HF Land Speeders for the heavy armor and hordes. for the price of an auto/Las pred you can get 2 of the speeders. Lascannons are there for the Range, Assault Cannons are for the Shots, Multi-Meltas are for the Heavy Stuff.

Tear OF The Angel wrote:Well I guess statisically the assault cannon is better but that relying on a lot of 6's. It's realy upto, play with the list proxy some models and decide what you like. The assault cannon doesnt mean crap against feel no pain. as to where 2 plasma and a lascannon will eat through it. and has the power to go through AV 13/ 14. But in the end you have to decide whats best for you.

Sure it does. FNP can't stand up to rending shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

syypher wrote:@Puma: I knew I saw those statistics somewhere before...that was the first reason I chose TL AsC. In order for me to actually make a difference in annihilating those AV13/14 vehicles I think I'm just going to have to go with some melta somewhere.

That's probably the most reliable way to do it while keeping the consistency and reliability of my TL AsC...

Maybe a Dev Squad in a RB with 4 Multi-meltas? That's kind of a huge investment...

Stormraven? Attack Bike Squad?

Looking across all my options I think Attack Bike Squad would probably bet he most reliable...Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Like I said, I combat squad a tac unit with half in the backfield (on an objective) and half in a TL AsC Razorback with melta and a fist. Fast-moving melta!

And a podding Libby dread to worry the enemy a little bit. Maybe get a Blood Lance into their side arc, where all their tanks are lined up neatly in a straight line. Now just a good roll on 4D6.

This BA razor spam list solves the melta problem by adding a couple of minsize assault squads with their jump packs still on. They drop in behind/beside the heavy tanks and use a melta and inferno pistol to take them out. Also it's another scoring unit, and dirt-cheap at 125 points.

IMO putting las/plasma razors in your army is a mistake. It would break up the redundancy of your massed assault cannons, and the lascannons are just as crappy at killing heavy armor as assault cannons.

Also I agree with others that the reclusiarch and death company are a point sink in this list, especially at smaller sizes. Librarians are better for mech lists, and lance would give you another option that can hurt heavy armor.

Oh, and you might look at putting HK missiles in on some of your vehicles as well. They're really not great for AR13/14, but they will help a lot against AR12 (i.e. Eldar skimmers), which assault cannons also struggle with.

Assault cannons are horrible for FnP, you have to roll a 6 to wound. unless you have weighted dice it's not goin to happen that often.

Thanks guys.

Deepstriking Landspeeders or just Skimming them across fast and firing Multi-Meltas sounds nice.

I think RAS w/ Melta + Infernus probably has a better chance at DS'ing though because of DoA + their super cheap... and another + is I already have them with JP's. One more thing I can not worry about having to buy...

Librarian it is for my HQ choice. Some people said I could use the Librarians Shield of Sanguinis to protect my stuff in the RBs. You can't use Blood Lance out of the RB though can you?

HK missles...gotta try those out as well.

So far from what I've gotten is...Drop DC+Reclu and go with Lib, TL AsC are > LasC vs AV13/14 and redundancy will help my TL AsC as well and Melta is the only true good option vs AV13/14.

Tear OF The Angel wrote:Assault cannons are horrible for FnP, you have to roll a 6 to wound. unless you have weighted dice it's not goin to happen that often.

But you have 4 more chances of doing it. You're not thinking of probability.

You get 1 shot with a lascannon, 67% chance of hitting, then 83% chance of wounding.

Or you get 4 shots with a twin-linked assault cannon, 67% chance of hitting with a reroll and 16.7% of rending. So, statistically, you should get a 6. And then, you've also wounded with other shots. So, while you may have done just as much damage as the lascannon (just not as easily), you've probably also caused some secondary wounds.

We'll just have to agree to disagree


Automatically Appended Next Post:

syypher wrote:

Librarian it is for my HQ choice. Some people said I could use the Librarians Shield of Sanguinis to protect my stuff in the RBs. You can't use Blood Lance out of the RB though can you?

Right, Shield will extend 6" from the Razorback. Nice, big bubble. And correct again, since Razorbacks don't have a fire point, you'll have to disembark to use Blood Lance.

You can use Shield of Sanguinius from inside a razor, and it does protect other vehicles within 6" (as per the GW FAQ). You have to get out to shoot a Lance, but if you can get a bunch of vehicles lined up, it can be worth the sacrifice.

Why not taking some Rhinos?
They have a top hatch and so lance can be used from inside.
Moreover, they can be repaired.

wuestenfux wrote:Why not taking some Rhinos?
They have a top hatch and so lance can be used from inside.
Moreover, they can be repaired.

Or this. Assault Squad gets a Rhino for free. Put a libby with them behind your razorback line.

Assault cannons don't do better for FnP than the TWIN LINKED PLASMAGUN AND LASCANNON top. You get 2 or 3 shots, so you lose 1 or 2, but you don't have to roll a 6. As fas statistics go throw those out the window, cause it's all bout the person throwing them. I don't know bout everyone else, but I have definitley noticed that my dice roll different depending on my mood when I'm playing. As do all my friends.

Puma assault squads don't get rhinos for free they are 15 pts. I really don't think the rhino rush will be effective.

I like to just run my speeders so they are on the table haven't really tried to deepstrike them.

Speeders are nice to intercept fast moving enemy units threatening your front ranks.
I'd give them for multi-purpose reasons heavy flamer and multimelta.

Looks like a solid army. av 14 is overrated. I would be willing to bet your problems with it are more tactical than army build.

Eidolon wrote:Looks like a solid army. av 14 is overrated. I would be willing to bet your problems with it are more tactical than army build.

Indeed, if you get close enough with a melta, then armor penetration in S8 + 7 (on average).

The thing is, if someone is running multiple raiders at 1500 or 1000 their army will be fairly weak. Raiders are cool, but I would only ever run 2 if I was playing in ard boys, like my vulkan list had. What you need to do is just run from the thing, stun it.
Heres some common mistakes players make.

The strength of an msu army is the ability to hurt lots of units. Dont stun a predator with your assault cannons, and then shoot it with another assault cannon. Its a predator, its not shooting you, move on.

Stay somewhat spread out. Armies like this fold when they can be forced to fight in one place. As a friend of mine who was running his msu razorspam wolves found out vs my sanguard ba list. You have the speed to redeploy quickly, what you dont want is 3 assault marine squads getting hit by 2 sanguard teams, or in this case a hammer squad jumping out of a raider.

The strength of your army isnt the individual units ability to hurt stuff. 5 assault marines accomplish gak compared to say 5 sanguard or 5 hammers. Its the death by a thousand cuts, just keep moving and picking away at the enemy.

No librarian, I feel this guy is a must have. He can use unleash rage and still give your DC the chaplain abilities, but in addition he can do the sanguine sword to really beat gak up on his own. Or he can use shield of sanguinus to give razorbacks within 6 a 5+ cover save. Not the greatest but against armor every shot counts.
Finally, why are there no priests in your army. There is no reason to use BA without priests, might as well play space wolves.

Tear OF The Angel wrote:Assault cannons don't do better for FnP than the TWIN LINKED PLASMAGUN AND LASCANNON top. You get 2 or 3 shots, so you lose 1 or 2, but you don't have to roll a 6. As fas statistics go throw those out the window, cause it's all bout the person throwing them. I don't know bout everyone else, but I have definitley noticed that my dice roll different depending on my mood when I'm playing. As do all my friends.

I wasn't saying that Assault Cannons do better, but you said that Assault Cannons did nothing against FnP, which is incorrect. And you get at max, 2 shots with a Twin-Linked Plasma Gun and Lascannon turret. And the person throwing them has nothing to do with statistics. That's why statistics are what they are, to give you the raw data. You're suggesting that your mood affects how your dice hit the table and come to a stop? Do you throw them when you're angry or something?

Tear Of The Angel wrote:Puma assault squads don't get rhinos for free they are 15 pts. I really don't think the rhino rush will be effective.

Yep, I was thinking of Drop Pods. My mistake.

syypher wrote:(My lists below)

I played a couple games already with my BA list and have gotten a few suggestions and have found a few weaknesses. First off I have an extremely hard time vs anything AV 13/14. (Ven Dred, LR, etc.) Unless I hit my rending on my TL AsC I can't do anything to really pop it without getting a RB close for Meltas. Any BA players or people who have played again mech BA players have suggestions on what to do?

These suggestions have been given to me:
TL Las/Sponsoon Las Predator
Devastator Squads
TL Las on half my Razors over TL AsC
Dread with 2x TL AC (AutoCannon)
Putting Hunter Killer Missles on everything..

I was also suggested to go Land Raiders or Storm Ravens instead of cheap RBs w/ weapons.


What do you guys think of each of these suggestions? Which would be the best option?


OT: For those of you that play Mech BA do you guys usually move Flatout 1st turn and smoke for that 6+ to hit and smoke cover? Or do you move 12" usually only so you can fire your RB equipped weapons?



1000 point list
--------------
Reclusiarch
Death Co. Squad
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Assault Squad
Flamer
Sgt: Hand Flamer
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Sgt: Infernus Pistol
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Sgt: Infernus Pistol
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons



1500 point list
--------------
Reclusiarch
Death Co. Squad
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Assault Squad
Flamer
Sgt: Hand Flamer
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Sgt: Infernus Pistol
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Sgt: Infernus Pistol
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Sgt: Infernus Pistol
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

remove the Infernus Pistols, add melta bombs, use transports to move fast (18") or make sure there is a road there (Fast vehicles move 24" flat out on a road) but if not move flat out with the transports you intend to Melta bomb the AV 13/14 with, then assault and watch em blow up.

I find that if you remove a TL assault cannon on one of the Razorbacks and leave it with a heavy bolter, it wont get shot if you lose the initiative since you have 3 TL Assault cannons running around

TL Lascannons cost the same for the transports as well, maybe one or two instead of the Assault cannons.

Also a Stormraven with TL Assault cannon and TL Multi-Melta is a good choice for the 1500 point list at 200 points. since you can move flat out(24" since its a fast skimmer) and shoot the TL Multi Melta (thanks to power of the machine spirit) and gain a 4+ cover save from moving flat out.

how about adding a Landspeeder with 2 multimeltas (80 points) or a squad of them (80 points each) that way a weapon destroyed leaves you with a Multi melta still.

Dreadnoughts are good choices as well, at 110 points for a multi melta and Missile launcher, they could be useful behind those tanks.

play a few games with these options and see what works best for you.

My 1000 list looks like this:

Death Reapers
HQ
Libriarian 100*

Troops
Assault squad(5) (with Sanguinary Priest)
Sergeant melta bombs
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon 160*

Assault squad(5) (with Sanguinary Priest)
Sergeant melta bombs
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon 160*

Assault squad(5) (with Libriarian)
Razorback
TL Lascannon 155*

Elites
Sanguinary Priest Powerfist 75*

Sanguinary Priest Powerfist 75*


Fast attack
Land speeder Multi-Melta
Tornado Heavy Bolter 70*

Land speeder Multi-Melta
Tornado Heavy Bolter 70*

Heavy support
Preadator autocannon
W/ Sponson lascannons 135*
1000

works well, can deal with a variety of things i see on the battlefield. I dont win them all, but i win some and lose some, and have alot of fun!

Deathreaper, why in the world would you give a sanguinary priest a power fist? That's just asking for your opponent to punk him before he even swings- not only losing 3-4 power fist attacks but (much more importantly) losing feel no pain. Unless you're used to opponents not knowing SPs are ICs that's just a terrible idea.