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Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Deathreaper, why in the world would you give a sanguinary priest a power fist? That's just asking for your opponent to punk him before he even swings- not only losing 3-4 power fist attacks but (much more importantly) losing feel no pain. Unless you're used to opponents not knowing SPs are ICs that's just a terrible idea.

Because they are Independent Characters and can be deployed in the razorbacks with the assault squads thus the "Assault squad(5) (with Sanguinary Priest)" so they will not get killed till the Razorbacks die/all the assault marines around them die.

so why not bolster the Assault squads with the sang priest w/ power fist, i guess i could move the PF to the sergeant in the assault squad, but the sang priests have WS 5 as opposed to the sergeants WS of 4.

puma713 wrote: And you get at max, 2 shots with a Twin-Linked Plasma Gun and Lascannon turret. And the person throwing them has nothing to do with statistics.

3 shots. The plasma gun is rapid fire, so it gets 2 shots within 12".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Deathreaper, why in the world would you give a sanguinary priest a power fist? That's just asking for your opponent to punk him before he even swings- not only losing 3-4 power fist attacks but (much more importantly) losing feel no pain. Unless you're used to opponents not knowing SPs are ICs that's just a terrible idea.

Because they are Independent Characters and can be deployed in the razorbacks with the assault squads thus the "Assault squad(5) (with Sanguinary Priest)" so they will not get killed till the Razorbacks die/all the assault marines around them die.

This isn't making complete sense to me. Any model in base contact or within 2" of the model in base contact of the priest can allocate attacks on the priest in close combat, so it's standard procedure to throw as many attacks as possible on the priest to try and deny the unit FnP. So like posted above, the priest will typically get killed at I4, and will never get to attack with his fist. It's sometimes possible to use movement shenanigans to keep your priest out of base contact in the first round, but then he can't fight (and can't use his fist), and by the second round of close combat he's usually scrummed in anyway.

Most players don't give their sanguinary priests anything, just for that reason.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

puma713 wrote: And you get at max, 2 shots with a Twin-Linked Plasma Gun and Lascannon turret. And the person throwing them has nothing to do with statistics.

3 shots. The plasma gun is rapid fire, so it gets 2 shots within 12".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Deathreaper, why in the world would you give a sanguinary priest a power fist? That's just asking for your opponent to punk him before he even swings- not only losing 3-4 power fist attacks but (much more importantly) losing feel no pain. Unless you're used to opponents not knowing SPs are ICs that's just a terrible idea.

Because they are Independent Characters and can be deployed in the razorbacks with the assault squads thus the "Assault squad(5) (with Sanguinary Priest)" so they will not get killed till the Razorbacks die/all the assault marines around them die.

This isn't making complete sense to me. Any model in base contact or within 2" of the model in base contact of the priest can allocate attacks on the priest in close combat, so it's standard procedure to throw as many attacks as possible on the priest to try and deny the unit FnP. So like posted above, the priest will typically get killed at I4, and will never get to attack with his fist. It's sometimes possible to use movement shenanigans to keep your priest out of base contact in the first round, but then he can't fight (and can't use his fist), and by the second round of close combat he's usually scrummed in anyway.

Most players don't give their sanguinary priests anything, just for that reason.

its just a matter of positioning your priest correctly.

they can only be attacked separately by models in base contact and unengaged models within 2" which is usually 1 or 2 guys only, and some of them may be dead after my assault. so i find its not so bad to have that PF on the priest, sometimes i put it on the sergeant though.

Thinking about VV w/ Meltas...Anyone ever try this out as the anti av13/14 answers?

DSing in and blowing up the LR or w/e then assaulting the juicy insides? This works right?...

Would it be better to DS via pod with VV or does their HI not work if they do their DS via pod?

Thanks~

Tear OF The Angel wrote:You dont need an honor guard as you should be trying to stay in the RB's as much as possible. My ? is why not twl plasma and lascannon combo. I have found it deadly against every army and since your going to want to stay away moving 6" is way better than 12", especially firing two weapons. I don't think I have seen a single list that has had this combo besides mine.

Isn't lasplas considered the best RB turret weapon for nilla marines and swolves? A lot of people use it...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tear OF The Angel wrote:I have no problem posting the list. The answer to your question about the RB weapons is it gives you that extra shot against low armor saves like termies or eavy orks, and also eats right through FnP. If your moving 12" everytime, you are likely to end up to close to their models bad news for you.
Heres my 1850 and 1000 pt list.
1000 pts
Hq-
Librarian w/ shield of Sanguinus, and unleash rage 100 pts
Trps-
5 assault marines w/ meltagun Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun lascannon 165 pts
5 assault marines w/ meltagun, power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 180 pts
5 assault marines w/ meltagun, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolters 130 pts
Fst-
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Hvy-
Pread w/ autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts

My 1850 is kind of the same with a few differences.
Hq-
Librarian w/ shield, rage 100 pts
Librarian w/ shield, sword 100 pts
Trps-
5 assault marines w/ powerfist, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolter 145 pts
5 assault marines w/ powerfist, Razorback w/ Twl heavy bolter 145 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 170 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 170 pts
5 assault marines w/ power weapon, meltagun Razorback w/ Twl plasmagun, lascannon 180 pts
Fst-
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Baal pread w/ heavy bolters 145 pts
Hvy-
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts
Pread w/ Autocannon, lascannon sponsons 135 pts

So those are the two list I've been running. Everyone around here has asked me to stop for awhile and try something else. Let me know what you think.

Why do your RAS have fists and weapons and yet no special weapons?

DeathReaper wrote:

its just a matter of positioning your priest correctly.

they can only be attacked separately by models in base contact and unengaged models within 2" which is usually 1 or 2 guys only, and some of them may be dead after my assault. so i find its not so bad to have that PF on the priest, sometimes i put it on the sergeant though.

Seems far too risky for me but if it works for you than more power to ya.

Though I can't agree with putting a power fist on a priest, I also cant agree with leaving him naked with ICs moving first. I find that 4 WS5 S5 attacks are a lot better when they ignore armor saves and at I5 they they tend to go first leaving your opponent to decide between the SP that already struck and the PF sergeant that hasn't.

You have to give him something mybe just a pw but something.

Thinking about VV w/ Meltas...Anyone ever try this out as the anti av13/14 answers?

DSing in and blowing up the LR or w/e then assaulting the juicy insides? This works right?...

Would it be better to DS via pod with VV or does their HI not work if they do their DS via pod?

Or some RBs with Sternguard with Combi Meltas?

I'd consider a (deep striking) Honour Guard with meltas. They come with a chalise.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd consider a (deep striking) Honour Guard with meltas. They come with a chalise.

QFT
This is a great unit for taking out one or two pieces of heavy armor and works well with either a Drop Pod (+35pv) or Jump Packs (+50pv) but can get expensive really fast if you fall for some of the options that help keep them alive a little longer. Stay away from Storm Shields and extra CC weapons. The Blood Champion is a good buy since you'll gain a WS5 model for the cost of the power weapon and combat shield. For 200 points you could pod in, blast somebody with 3 Melta Guns and still be a threat in CC if they get charged.

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On the "how to equip 'em" and SPs front I can't imagine not giving my Sanguinary Priest a Lightning Claw. Too bad I can't do the same with the Sanguinary Novitiate. A Power Fist makes 0.0% sense since having a 1 wound IC go at I1 is just . Your opponent would have to be either extremely unlucky or just plain dumb not to kill him off long before he strikes.

I use dante+5 sanguard with infernus pistols and an attached priest with combi melta to bust up heavy armor, I especially love seeing leman russ tank squads. Then again this unit is extremely expensive.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd consider a (deep striking) Honour Guard with meltas. They come with a chalise.

QFT
This is a great unit for taking out one or two pieces of heavy armor and works well with either a Drop Pod (+35pv) or Jump Packs (+50pv) but can get expensive really fast if you fall for some of the options that help keep them alive a little longer. Stay away from Storm Shields and extra CC weapons. The Blood Champion is a good buy since you'll gain a WS5 model for the cost of the power weapon and combat shield. For 200 points you could pod in, blast somebody with 3 Melta Guns and still be a threat in CC if they get charged.

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On the "how to equip 'em" and SPs front I can't imagine not giving my Sanguinary Priest a Lightning Claw. Too bad I can't do the same with the Sanguinary Novitiate. A Power Fist makes 0.0% sense since having a 1 wound IC go at I1 is just . Your opponent would have to be either extremely unlucky or just plain dumb not to kill him off long before he strikes.

I usually kill most of the unit i am fighting on my charge, thats why i let him sit with a PF. he usually only has 1 or 2 guys attacking him, and with 3+ armor and 4+ FNP he lives most of the time, i should proally equip him with a power weapon instead and give the sergeant the PF.

Update:
Edited my 1500 point list. Put a 2nd list as well. Most of the time I've been playing 1500 pts now instead of 1000. Built up my army enough to be able to play higher

Stormraven + TL Multi-melta was very underwhelming. The TL was awesome but with only 1 melta it wasn't a very sure fire way to do any AV12/13/14 killing...

I NEED some advice on getting down some AV12/13/14 in a BA RB Mech list. Basically the people we play with most both run really high/high AV things like LRs, Ven Dreds and StormRavens with a bunch of DC or punch in your face units. I can't pop them before they get to me so I always get popped and charged and DC wreck my 5 man RAS's from the RB they popped easily. I really appreciate everyones advice on doing jump things here and there with meltas but it seems everyones opinions are scattered too much that not really everyone comes to a consensus. I don't want to purchase some guys or more mech and them be underwhelming again.

Another thing. It's usually best to move RBs 12 and shoot the TL AsC so you can pray you get that high AVs armor with a rending shot instead of flatout 18" but if you don't pierce the armor it's kind of just bye bye for the RB or they get immobilized or something. I'm having a hard time with this again these high AV things and even with my Melta + Infernus guys coming out of the vehicles. Since theres no packs I have to hope I get close enough to be able to do the 2d6 rolls. For Infernus Pistols thats 3"... >_< (Hard to do with infantry guys) So that's not a very reliable way at all to pop high AV's. Do-able yes, reliable no.


Ideas:
1) Most of my stuff is really fast so I was thinking of maybe doing a frontline of Baals for being shields, RB's in behind them w/ Attack bikes w/ Multi-meltas to rush in turn 2 and Melta stuff...

2) Vanguard Vets, 2 Power Fists and melta bombs or some combo of high AV killing things since they can assault after they deepstrike. But then again, if I DS the wrong way it's gonna suck anyways and now their just cannon fodder and gives the enemy something easy to shoot at.

3) Drop Pod Furioso' Dreads with Melta/Flamer combo. Melta, hope to kill the vehicle. Get assaulted but shouldn't be too bad if I get a SR or LR down. Easily make up his points.

4) One of my probably favorite ideas... More mech in getting regular Predators with TL AsC + Las Sponsoons. (I love tanks and how BA is fast as well!)

5) Other favorite idea...Drop Podding Dev Squad with all Multi-Meltas

OT Question: If a Predator moves 12" can it fire both it's Las Sponsoons or just 1 side? Must both it's Sponsoons be in "true line of sight" of something to shoot at it? If only 1 is in "true los" can it fire by itself? If 1 of the sponsoons has sight but the other does, can they both shoot the same target or only the one that has the sight?

syypher wrote:Update:
Edited my 1500 point list. Put a 2nd list as well. Most of the time I've been playing 1500 pts now instead of 1000. Built up my army enough to be able to play higher

Stormraven + TL Multi-melta was very underwhelming. The TL was awesome but with only 1 melta it wasn't a very sure fire way to do any AV12/13/14 killing...

I NEED some advice on getting down some AV12/13/14 in a BA RB Mech list. Basically the people we play with most both run really high/high AV things like LRs, Ven Dreds and StormRavens with a bunch of DC or punch in your face units. I can't pop them before they get to me so I always get popped and charged and DC wreck my 5 man RAS's from the RB they popped easily. I really appreciate everyones advice on doing jump things here and there with meltas but it seems everyones opinions are scattered too much that not really everyone comes to a consensus. I don't want to purchase some guys or more mech and them be underwhelming again.

Another thing. It's usually best to move RBs 12 and shoot the TL AsC so you can pray you get that high AVs armor with a rending shot instead of flatout 18" but if you don't pierce the armor it's kind of just bye bye for the RB or they get immobilized or something. I'm having a hard time with this again these high AV things and even with my Melta + Infernus guys coming out of the vehicles. Since theres no packs I have to hope I get close enough to be able to do the 2d6 rolls. For Infernus Pistols thats 3"... >_< (Hard to do with infantry guys) So that's not a very reliable way at all to pop high AV's. Do-able yes, reliable no.


Ideas:
1) Most of my stuff is really fast so I was thinking of maybe doing a frontline of Baals for being shields, RB's in behind them w/ Attack bikes w/ Multi-meltas to rush in turn 2 and Melta stuff...

2) Vanguard Vets, 2 Power Fists and melta bombs or some combo of high AV killing things since they can assault after they deepstrike. But then again, if I DS the wrong way it's gonna suck anyways and now their just cannon fodder and gives the enemy something easy to shoot at.

3) Drop Pod Furioso' Dreads with Melta/Flamer combo. Melta, hope to kill the vehicle. Get assaulted but shouldn't be too bad if I get a SR or LR down. Easily make up his points.

4) One of my probably favorite ideas... More mech in getting regular Predators with TL AsC + Las Sponsoons. (I love tanks and how BA is fast as well!)

5) Other favorite idea...Drop Podding Dev Squad with all Multi-Meltas

OT Question: If a Predator moves 12" can it fire both it's Las Sponsoons or just 1 side? Must both it's Sponsoons be in "true line of sight" of something to shoot at it? If only 1 is in "true los" can it fire by itself? If 1 of the sponsoons has sight but the other does, can they both shoot the same target or only the one that has the sight?

Both of the las sponsons count as seperate weapons, which is annoying at times. But getting more autolas preds seems like a good idea, they'll pop transports no problem, and add in more target saturation.

I was thinking of doing Vindicator + Drop Pod Devastator... Devs pop open a LR or SR and with 4 Meltas...possibly 5 if I combi-melta the Sgt. that LR or SR better go down!

Then after popping it I can Vindicator the insides.

What do you guys think? It's either that or the Pred thing...Both give me extra armor for my RBs to hide behind and both place more threats on the table as well so they dont have to focus everything on my RBs mostly.

Edit:
Actually the MULTI-meltas from the devs wont even be able to fire when they drop because their heavy. Damn...forgot they were heavy, was thinking of regular meltaguns...


Soooo...TL Las + Las Sponsoon Preds is my next best choice? Anyone have any good ideas for this?

Honor Guard with 4 Melta Guns or Sternguard with Combis, either in a Drop Pod or a Stormraven. Or the ever popular Multi-Melta Attack Bikes. You could even add Corbulo to get the re-roll.

I think that's the route I am going to go. At least to me it seems like the most reliable way to for sure down an AV12/13/14 vehicle.

5 Honour Guard w/ 4 Meltas in a Drop Pod.

In fact, its a good decision.
How many Pods do you run? It should be an odd number.

Just 1. Might do 3 but that's 555 pts just dedicated into that...

What do you guys think? Should I just do 1 pod or 3?

I'm thinking instead of 2 baal pred and 2 auto+las can pred I would do 2 baal pred and 2 vindicators.

My thought on it is if I do 3 drop pod melta squads, a LR or SR WILL pop and vindicators will have a field day

I pop LR's with 2 landspeeders with dual Multi-Meltas, and a Stormraven with a TL Multi melta, or a furioso dread with its attached meltagun, you can move 24 and still TL multi-melta a LR, and remember a crew stunned LR is one that will not shoot back next round, so once you get shaken/stunned or wrecked, move on.

you could just take a LR for yourself and see how it works for you and what they kill it with, but Multi-meltas usually work

More assault marines, more melta, more melta, more melta.

syypher wrote:

What do you guys think of each of these suggestions? Which would be the best option?


OT: For those of you that play Mech BA do you guys usually move Flatout 1st turn and smoke for that 6+ to hit and smoke cover? Or do you move 12" usually only so you can fire your RB equipped weapons?



1500 point list 1
--------------
Librarian
Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Devastator Squad
Multi-melta x 4 (Combi on Sgt?)
Drop Pod

Vindicator

Vindicator




1500 point list 2
--------------
Lemartes
Death Co. Squad
Power Weapon x 3
Stormraven
TL Assault Cannons
TL Multi-melta
Extra Armor
Furioso Dreadnaught

Librarian
Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons


Assault Squad
Meltagun
Transport: Razorback
TL Assault Cannons

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters

Baal Predator
Heavy Bolters


Update:
Edited my 1500 point list. Most of the time I've been playing 1500 pts now instead of 1000. Built up my army enough to be able to play higher

Stormraven + TL Multi-melta was very underwhelming. The TL was awesome but with only 1 melta it wasn't a very sure fire way to do any AV12/13/14 killing...

From what I've seen you have a pretty basic RB spam list, the only thing I see that is a surefire error synergy wise is that dev squad. I know everyone bags on them, but really my only reason is synergy. The rest of your army is moving, shooting, assaulting. Devs just SIT there and shoot. That'll save you 165 points right there (i'm assuming for some reason you gave the devs a drop pod?), which is enough for another vindi (St 10 is always good for popping high AV vehicles, take it from a railgunner ) or if you point shuffle you CAN buy an increadably expensive honor guard for your librarian. Ideally tho he should be an epistiolary anyways as he'll need to use two powers per turn to make sure he can up

Ya I was going to do Honour Guard but as was brought to my attention Land Speeder/ Attack Bike Squads are cheaper...and have the same amount of MM. I think with 4-5 AV13 vehicles they can hide behind something by the time they get close enough to strike.

What do you guys think?

Haven't really had any consensus yet on whats my best option anti av13/14.

Yea to the MM Attack bike squads.

The Speeders are good to.

Regular bike squads with attack bike upgrade might be good to.

I'd go for Speeders with mm and heavy flamer as they are more versatile than Attack Bikes.

Honor guard are not scoring units. Furthermore 4 Melta guns spread out over 20 assault marines is better than 4 melta guns in a single squad.

Up to 20% of regular plain old assault marines can and should carry a melta gun.

If AV13/14 is giving a BA player any trouble it's because they don't have enough assault marines.

2/3 of all games are objective based, assault marines are uberlicious, and many BA players still insist on playing light on troops. The problem with the BA codex is there are so many shiny toys in the codex that BA players end up overspending on shiny toys and shorting themselves on assault marines.

schadenfreude wrote:Honor guard are not scoring units. Furthermore 4 Melta guns spread out over 20 assault marines is better than 4 melta guns in a single squad.

Up to 20% of regular plain old assault marines can and should carry a melta gun.

If AV13/14 is giving a BA player any trouble it's because they don't have enough assault marines.

2/3 of all games are objective based, assault marines are uberlicious, and many BA players still insist on playing light on troops. The problem with the BA codex is there are so many shiny toys in the codex that BA players end up overspending on shiny toys and shorting themselves on assault marines.

So your advice is to spam Assault Marines with jump packs, no Honor Guard.
On the other hand, a HG comes with a free chalice.

So between Speeders and Attack Bikes it's just a toss up on which one I would prefer?

All my Assault Squad do have Meltas. Are you saying to grab a RAS with 2x Meltas in it on foot and to jump around and melta?

Its not a toss.
Speeders are better since they can deep strike, are skimmers, and have more versatile weapons (mm + hf combo).

Well, if you field an jump packers then it is eventually better to let them deep strike thanks to the DoA rule.
Then I wouldn't use units that do not benefit from the DoA rule, like Speeders, since they would eventually arrive later (no re-roll for reserves).

Ya my list is above in the first post. No jump packers. Everything is RB Spam with AV13's for backup.

Speeders it is then! I'll keep them behind my AV 13 vehicles a turn and on turn turn, move in and MM the AV 13/14s.

Sound good? Thoughts anyone? If these are the best choice for anti av13/14 then I'm going to purchase them sometime later this week.