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UPDATE - All sorted now and we're looking full. 12:15 start now followed by a couple of beers/cokes, possibly out of the trophies.

Hi all,

This will be the thread for any questions relating to the Boro Killteam tournament. Post away and feel free to discuss - the rules are far from nailed down but come the day I'll make sure all queries are answered one way or another.

Taloncab

Those currently 'in'
Ben G (Tantras)
Chris B (Taloncab)
Phil (Battlecannonitphil)
Bowesy (bigmits)
Kev (Corsair)
MattyM (Mattym)
Ross (jizzmonkey)
Chris Russell (mrJak)
Luke Berry
Evilmop
Wolf
Snowden (Booboohamster)

Rule clarifications
- You may only assign one universal special rule per model - up to three models
- Tyranids can ignore the synapse 12" range rule, but must have a synapse creature in their list (effectively unlimited range on the synapse)
- Items bought at list which confer bonuses to the unit still apply to the whole unit (chaos icons etc)
- Skills bought by a leader of a unit (exarch etc) can be used by him and any units in coherency in game
- Only actual swarms can have swarm special rule, Phil

There are a few silly little clarifications that will need to be made to play KT competitively. Even though it's all a bit of fun, people still need to know where they stand with it.

1) Tyranid Synapse. As Kev (Corsair) pointed out, this needs addressing. The rules for synapse in standard 40k mean that if a Tyranid unit isn't within 12" of a synapse creature at the start of their turn, they follow the rules for instinctive behaviour, which for some units means they run away and hide, for other units it means they run toward the closest enemy and try to batter them. Would we be keeping the 12" range? Would you say one synapse creature covers the whole battlefield? Would you say synapse itself it just ignored?

2) CSM Icons. If I purchase a squad of CSM, I can buy them an Icon to sex up their Attacks/Initiative/Save/Toughness, which affects the whole squad. How are we handling that for KT? Within a certain range? Just affects every friendly model? Something else?

There are probably a ton more (in fact I think there's a thread dedicated to KT over in the YMDC forums here on Dakka, I'll have a look later.) I shall post them as I think of them.

Looking forward to the tourney, though!

Alright - my opinions on the above:

Tyranid synapse rule - applies as it would in any other game. So you'll need to use your elite slot on a synapse creature (and keep it within 12") or suffer the consequences.

Icon/squad upgrades - I say that an item bought at 'list' stage will benefit the applicable squad as it usually would. The squad them acts as individuals once the game kicks off.

gun drones are attatched to a man , they need to stay with him, ie shield drone give him save.

looks like stealers kev.

do all my wolf scouts outflank at different places, or same table edge.

deamon host says only if you have an inquisitor, that mean you cant have him.

harliquin seers shroud makes unit night fight style to shoot, will this just be him as well, or will it affect them all like chaos icon.

ermmmmm no more questions for now




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ps im playing

I'll have a think and get back to you Phil. In future, bear in mind that punctuation helps me understand your questions (-;

I'd love to participate in a tourney like this. Shame it's so far from me.

I'd ask 2 questions, were I able to participate.

1. Can dedicated transports bought for the unit carry only one model, or still carry the whole squad if it could fit "normally."

2. Would Wolf Banners affect every model making an assault that turn, or does it only affect the model holding the banner?

We had a good laugh at the Warhammer World Dakka UK meet-up, Endova. I think there's a thread about it somewhere...

@Taloncab - I'm up for it, deffo. Won't be able to confirm until a bit closer to the date - that OK? Where is it, by the way?

Yo Albatross, no problem on confirming later on. No rush just wanted to give maximum notice. It's taking place in Boro Games Workshop on their tables.

Endova, we're not playing with vehicles, but i assume in normnal killteam you can take DT if you could in a normal list. The whole unit would need to be deployed in it at the start though i think.

Items like wolf banners, which give a bonus to the squad when the bearer charges would work, but only for the squad that was bought together in list phase. In my opinion.

Chris

Hey guys - glad to see another KT tourney happening, be sure to write lots of battle reports with pics!

Anyway, most of the questions asked in this thread relate to SQUAD level abilities that have been conferred by a unit upgrade. Exarch powers from the Eldar codex is another good example.

What I have house ruled before is as follows:

It affects all members of the squad which would normally benefit from the effect but they have to stay within 2" coherency range as if they were a squad in order to benefit from the Veil of Tears or Bladestorm.

This is to prevent weird situations happening such as two Dire Avengers bladestorming on one side of the table while two others dont. Also, Harlequins with VoT on all the time can play the hide and seek game - which can be somewhat frustrating for people without the right list to counter it - i.e. a horde to restrict movement.

Now then,

I think you should reconsider the ruling on Synapse for the following reasons:

Synapse in the regular game of 40k, if you set aside the fluff and consider just the game mechanics, has both benefits and drawbacks.

Instead of trying to convince you of the folly of enforcing synapse in Kill Team with some elaborate arguement, I'll just bullet point the benefits and drawbacks applicable to each game type and it should become obvious why it won't work in Kill Team without some modification.

Benefits

Standard 40k - Tyranids under the influence of Synapse are Fearless.

Kill Team - None


Drawbacks

Standard 40k - Squads must stay within 12" of Synapse or are subject to the instinctive behaviour rule. However, only one member of the squad need be in range, and the rest may 'fan out' well outside of this range.

Kill Team - Individuals must stay within 12" of Synapse or are subject to the instinctive behaviour rule. Because each model is an individual, this means every member must stay within 12" of a synapse creature, without the ability of the squad to fan out ala standard 40k.


The simplest way to get around this would be to forget about Synapse for the purpose of kill team. However, I've thought of some other ways you could build it in without breaking anything. It would still be nothing more than a drawback, as fearless doesn't really help you in kill team unless you're multiple wound and lose combat, but these could help mitigate the drawbacks...

In order of preference:

1 - Forget about Synapse

2 - Allow Synapse to 'bounce' or 'relay' from one creature to another, chain lightning style. eg; A Termagent who is within 12" of a Hormagaunt, who is in turn within 12" of a Synapse creature, counts as covered by Synapse.

3 - If a Synapse creature is alive and your force has been reduced to half strength, the Synapse creature automatically passes the test (why would Tyranids ever run away?)


I also have an unrelated question - when purchasing units, are we able to pay individual points costs for individual models, or do we need to purchase minimum squad sizes then field as individual units?

Thoughts please

Count me in!

@ Battlecannon it Phil

I don't have my rulebook on me, but I am fairly sure that no reserves are allowed in kill-team...

Solves the wolf scout issue?

Being more of a drunk than a gamer you guys have lost me already regarding the rules for this, but anything that occurs on a weekend in boro I will merrily turn up at.

Well....

As long as we go to leatherspoons afterwards.

Corsair wrote:
3 - If a Synapse creature is alive and your force has been reduced to half strength, the Synapse creature automatically passes the test (why would Tyranids ever run away?)

Thoughts please

My thoughts on this point specifically: Stop being a mad bastard, Kev!

Hi Kev,

Thanks for outlining your argument. It makes sense to me and I'll happily forget about the synapse issue when it comes to killteam, but I'd like to insist that you still have a synapse creature in your list.

The third option was mad! You must have just wanted a 3rd option and not thought this one through!

On minimum unit numbers - YES - you must take the minimum numbers of a squad.

I'll add this to the clarification list.

Phil - gonna deal with your requests over weekend (-:

Is anyone else as struck by total indecision as I am? I've made about ten lists, literally, so far and I'm not happy with any of them! I can't believe vehicles are banned though, I would've had an IG sentinel list and it would've been beaut!

9 rattlings
10 rough riders

jobs a good un

my rough rider sarg will have the swarm universal rule


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snowy gibbo and luke were game as well i think

Just a few questions from me.

1. Whats the deal with the wraithsight rule for eldar wraithguard? Will it be similar to the synapse ruling above?

2. Do bikes count as vehicles?

3. What happens with exarch powers that would affect the whole squad? For example dire avengers with bladestorm. Would they all have to 'bladestorm' on the same turn as each other or would it be each model bladstorming seperatly?

Now I need to hurry up and make a list so i can get it painted as I am the worlds slowest painter!

Bikes don't count as vehicles. Neither do jetbikes.

Read my post above re: Exarch powers - Taloncab has yet to officially approve it but I think its a reasonable way to deal with it!

Yeah, a vehicle is anything with an armour value instead of a toughness value, Mr Bowes. I'm brewing up on Ork list with some Deffcoptas in, could be fun.

...then again, like the indecisive bastard I am, that's about the seventh list I've been through.

Tantras wrote:

Corsair wrote:
3 - If a Synapse creature is alive and your force has been reduced to half strength, the Synapse creature automatically passes the test (why would Tyranids ever run away?)

Thoughts please

My thoughts on this point specifically: Stop being a mad bastard, Kev!

It was worth a try guv'

I'm happy with the current arrangement of ignoring Synapse but having to have some included in the force. This makes more than sense than including it as it was... and means the real 40k bad guys will show up for some fun! I'd been considering playing Chaos, but they're only half as scary

Phil - I'm only happy for you to abuse the game mechanics by giving a rough rider 'swarm' if you make up a swarm base of epic rough riders!!!

Yo all,

Bowesy, as Chuah said - exarch powers work if in coherency. Bikes don't count as vehicles and wraithsight will work the same as it would in 40k except the 6" is extended like we've done for the tyranid synapse thing.

Phil, drones need to stay with man to confer benefits. Nothing outflanks as nothing can be kept in reserves. Seer shroud will apply to the whole unit even if not together. You need an inquisitor to have a daemon host yes.

Hope that answers all your Qs. Luke is now officially 'in'. He's my bet for the best painted/modelled trophy.

ill bust out my exoarmour squats , and count them as wraith guard.

I'm still not 100% on what I'm gonna play... probably plague marines though. So hardy

Also other questions that have popped out before:

1. Chaos Daemons. You have to roll for preferred wave as normal if you have more than 1 unit per normal 5th ed rules. If you have just the one unit, then you can forgo the roll. For example, if you had a unit of Bloodletters and Daemonettes, you need to nominate the preferred unit to turn up on Turn 1. If you had 1 max Fiends of Slaanesh unit, that unit turns up Turn 1.

2. Applying universal rules. There are some common questions here as well:

- These have to be different in a Killteam, cannot have three guys with feel no pain
- Rending is not a universal special rule, therefore you can't give someone rending.
- Turboboost is generally a no-no
- Swarm. Only with a immensely good fluff reason / modelling. If this is applied to a model that already has stealth, then there is a good chance it will be disallowed - i.e. a 'swarm' SM scout with camo-cloaks...
- Rage. Don't ever take it. I still see people apply it for some reason. It's a disadvantage.
- Slow and purposeful - don't take it - might as well take relentless
- Stubborn - this has VERY limited usefulness in a Kill Team game. UNLESS the KT organiser rules that the guy with the highest leadership and stubborn is not subject to the cumulative leadership modifier at half strength... if so, it could be a competitive choice
- Fearless - VERY limited use in a KT game.

Yiawchuah wrote:
- Slow and purposeful - don't take it - might as well take relentless.

Bear in mind that Slow & Purposeful also grants you relentless (it's within the body of the text). So it does give you the potential to have two heavy weapons that can move and shoot, should that fit into your list.

Just wondering how strict we are on points. I've put a few list together and some come out at 202pt or 203pts. Is this a big no no?

Cheers

I'd say so, matey. That's part of the challenge.

Yes, that's a good point Tantras.

Yep sorry Bowesy - the points is STRICT. Horrendous as my best list comes out at 201 so I had to bin it. Such a spruce.

On skills - I reckon FNP, Stealth, Furious Charge, Scout and Relentless are the best