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Is Blood Angels only way to make a nasty 1000 list?

HQ

Reclusiarch
Jump Pack
Storm Bolter
158


Librarian
Jump Pack
The Blood Lance. Unleash Rage
125

Honour Guard (5 man)
Melta Guns x 2
Rhino w/ HK
195

ELITES

Sanguinary Priests
x 1 Combi- Plasma
x 1 Combi-Melta
Jump Pack
145

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Chainsword & Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Rhino w/ HK
230

Assault Squad (6 man)
Hand Flamers x 2
Melta Bombs
143

996

Librarian and Reclusiarch and Jump Pack S P with assault squad. tactical squad combat squadded and tying infantry down. Honour Guard tank hunts.

You don't really need 2 Sanguinary Priests for just 1000 points. I would lose the Recluisarch and take a Dreadnought with TL Las instead: You have nothing with long range firepower that can seriously harm AV13+ which you have a good chance of encountering in 1000 point games.

Well long range no....but if a guy takes a lot of long range in 1000 he sacrifices a lot of troops.

Reclusiarch is to give the assault squad a bit more bite...

I could lose the honour guard to get a dreadnought I guess.....

I think a Dread would do more than 5 guys in a Rhino. For their cost you could take a TL Las Dread in a Drop Pod.

I think the librarian is all you need for an HQ. You should switch the honor guard and tac squad into more assaults and use remaining points for hellfire dread

Honestly I'd drop the priests over the honor guard. The HG get a blood chalice as standard so if you keep everything near them, which as everything has a transport or jump packs will be easy, you'll get the rules just for being within 6" of them. Use those points on a dread instead.

Just to confirm, I'm assuming you're combat squading your tactical squad as they are very confused otherwise. I'd loose the storm bolter on the Reclusiarch too, loosing an attack ain't worth the extra couple of shots you'll be able to fire.

it would then become following your advice:

Is Blood Angels only way to make a nasty 1000 list?

HQ

Librarian
Jump Pack
The Blood Lance. Unleash Rage
125

Honour Guard (5 man)
Melta Guns x 2
Rhino
185

ELITES

Sanguinary Priest x 2
x 2 Combi-Melta
Jump Packs
120

TROOPS

Assault Squad (6 man)
Hand Flamers x 2
Melta Bombs
143

Assault Squad (6 man)
Hand Flamers x 2
Melta Bombs
143

HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
T-L Autocannon
140

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
T-L Autocannon
140

996 points

If you want something for reference, here's what I use for 1000 points.

Captain
- Thunder Hammer
- Jump Pack
- Storm Bolter

Assault Squad
- Flamer
- Power Weapon

10 Man Tactical Squad
- Rockets
- Plasma Gun
- Power Weapon

Dreadnought
- TL Lascannon

5 Man Death Company
- 2 Power Weapons
- Hand Flamer

DC Dread
- Drop Pod

Why would you use a BA Captain? A librarian can pretty much be a combat monster from the start (psyker check for S10!)

Only if he takes Sanguine Sword Kenshin. And Blood lance is much more useful than SS


Which armies do you play that list most against Valkyrie?

Take a look at my previous threads, there's about 4 battle reports using my BA, and they perform pretty well.

Librarian needs to be epistolary to use both powers in a single turn, ok in opponents assault phase though.

I'd take normal flamers tbh, S3 isn't all that awesome.

50 points from somewhere...


Librarian
Epistolary
Jump Pack
The Blood Lance. Unleash Rage
175

Honour Guard (5 man)
Melta Guns x 2
Rhino
185

ELITES

Sanguinary Priest x 1
Jump Pack
85

TROOPS

Assault Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Melta Bombs
195

Scout Squad (5 man)
Missile Launcher
80


HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
T-L Autocannon
140

Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
T-L Autocannon
140

1000 points

I would ditch that single Rhino. Just come to me about that. Anti tank fire will blast the Dreadnoughts and that will be next. Make life easier for yourself and just bring all infantry and then the long range walkers.

Winged Nightmare:

Mephiston 250

Lib. Dread, wings, shield 175

Lib. Dread, wings, shield 175

Assault squad, melta, remove packs 110
Razorback, TLHF, dozer blade 25

Assault squad, melta, remove packs 110
Razorback, TLHF, dozer blade 25

Assault squad, flamer, remove packs 105
Razorback, TLHF, dozer blade 25

Everything is in your face turn 2. Good luck.

Very good jabbdo, now what do you have for tank hunting in that list?
Infact, what do you even have for infantry hunting?
Seems far too heavy on nice units (looks wise) and nothing to do any real damage.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Very good jabbdo, now what do you have for tank hunting in that list?
Infact, what do you even have for infantry hunting?
Seems far too heavy on nice units (looks wise) and nothing to do any real damage.

Every unit kills tanks. Every unit kills/ ties up infantry.

Mephiston does no real damage? Ok...

Your in a dream world them.

You have: 2 melta's in your troops for hurting tanks - not really enough to do anything with a good result.

Lib dreads - Great, they move fast and hit hard, they still rely on powers to get anything done.
They are also points heavy compared to a furioso, for a job only a slight bit better.


Meph - should i even try and point out faults here?
Thats 1/4 of your points on a single model with no EW or ++ save, he is toast.
I play BA, daemons and nids, so i have used him and played against him.
On paper he looks great, but you have nothing there to keep him covered or prevent him being shot.


Just a point sink.


Seems like a list of units that need to be supported, not stand alone units.



against a horde army you have no chance, you will simply be pulled down in combat and flooded with targets.
or, if said horde army is IG, you will just be shot to death.

Keep in mind backs are only AV11, so anything above basic weapons can kill them easily enough.

Jabbdo wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Very good jabbdo, now what do you have for tank hunting in that list?
Infact, what do you even have for infantry hunting?
Seems far too heavy on nice units (looks wise) and nothing to do any real damage.

Every unit kills tanks. Every unit kills/ ties up infantry.

Mephiston does no real damage? Ok...

Yeah, Mephiston just is too vulnerable thanks to a lack of Invun and Independant Character status.

If you want your list to be even remotely effective against armour, change the Lib Dreads to regular Dreads, and give the Razorbacks TL Las.

Valk: dont forget meph has a tendancy to wound himself aswell
Lets face it, your spamming powers, they will go wrong.
Your not spamming them, he has no use.

He needs to be screened or thrown in his own transport to stay alive.

TL HF are pretty fun for grilling hordes, or do you disagree?

Shoot meph, go ahead. You need to kill him on turn 1 or he's eating you. Ok, so you need to put 10 ap1/2 wounds on him in 1 turn. Youve done nothing to the rest of my army. Good game.

Really, give me some example of how you would deal with him in a 1000pt game.

No, i dont disagree, i think it isnt the best idea though.
Most horde armies have close range anti-tank, and you plan on sitting infront of them so they dont have to go to you.

Why put 10 ap1/2 wounds on him? only takes 5.

I rather shoot him or bait him with units.


So, he runs into a unit of 30 boyz.
5 attacks wont do a real lot, so lets say you hit and wound with them all.

25 boyz attack back with 75 attacks.
Need i go on? you can see where this is going.

He is a 1 trick pony with an instant kill switch on his head.

The only way he will do anything drastic is if someone doesent know what he does.


great, he can hunt MC's, what goods that against endless 6 point models?

Jack is totally on the ball here: Meph may be good against Monstrous Creatures, Characters etc, but get him bogged down and he'll go down quickly.

10ap1/2 wounds because of cover. I only need to have his left toe in cover and he gets a 4++

Any experienced player will know NOT to charge meph into a unit of 30 orb boyz, and they cant catch him either, because said experienced player will place him so that he's safe from them.

Seems like Mephiston could hide behind the 3 Razorbacks quite well. and he would be out of LoS so he cant get shot.

Jabbdo wrote:10ap1/2 wounds because of cover. I only need to have his left toe in cover and he gets a 4++

Any experienced player will know NOT to charge meph into a unit of 30 orb boyz, and they cant catch him either, because said experienced player will place him so that he's safe from them.

Ok, if you keep Meph where you don't want him to get hurt he'll do almost sod-all during the match.

Death Reaper wrote:Seems like Mephiston could hide behind the 3 Razorbacks quite well. and he would be out of LoS so he cant get shot.

And the Razorbacks are Fast vehicles. You're prepared to spend points keeping 3 vehicles moving at their slowest just to block LoS to a character?

Valk is on the ball this time.

If you want to piss points into a pot then go for it.
But wouldnt it make sense to just buy meph his on vehicle to use?
you know, so you dont need to hug cover (and lose out on actually using him)
And you dont slow down your super tanks (which wouldnt get to fire too often due to being slowed and thier choice of weapon)



Also, how much cover do you use? by the sounds of it you have enough to re-make the entire town i live in if you think you can hide in cover the whole game.
Generally movement will take you out of cover as it isnt allways viable to hope from piece to piece.
also, keep in mind he counts as having a jump pack.
So if you want to pack into terrain be my guest.

Also, that mob does not need to catch him, just trap him or restrict his movement.
Failing that, waaagh! move for a nice 18" assault range total, or 1st turn assault him with stormboyz.

Ive used him a few times, but only because i was against a player that hasnt played the new BA.
He is good for shock value, and thats about it.
If your going more tournament style then his points can buy units with a purpose, rather than a single model that needs baby-sitting the whole game.

throw him in a raven, load a furioso on the back and use them in tandem with eachother for a much better result.
While its stupidly heavy on points, it is amusing and with a heavy flamer burst followed by a volley of S10 attacks between them, they do well.
They both also last out pretty well.

HQ

Mephiston= 250


Elites

Sanguinary Priest= 50

Sanguinary Priest= 50


Troops

Assualt Squad w/ Hand Flamer + Power Weapon, Flamer= 130

Assualt Squad w/ Hand Flamer + Power Weapon, Flamer= 130

Tactical Squad w/ Power Weapon + TL Assualt Cannon Razorback= 195

Tactical Squad w/ Power Weapon + TL Assualt Cannon Razorback= 195

=1000

I've used this army twice, 1st game a 3rd turn massacre, 2nd a 4th turn massacre. Both opponents had experience against my BA

The battle plan was to move the Tac Squads w/ Priests 18", Assualt Squads + Meph 12" (hopefully to cover), disembark Tac Squads and rapid fire, 8 bolters and 2 ass cannons can be nasty at 1000pts. If the enemy attacks the Tacs they get charged and tied up by the Assualt Squads and Meph. If they sit and shoot they get shot and charged by both the Tac Squads (Bolt Pistols) and Assualt Squads (range providing) and a Fleeting Meph. Whatever happens they get charged and die. Sang Priests keep up numbers, especially against hordes, Meph provides a big distraction (he got charged by both Yriel and Fuegan on the same turn in game 1 killing Yriel first time and Fuegan 2nd leaving with 1 wound.)

Phantom, to start with, its not a bad list actually.
You have a decent structure in it and it can work with several different styles of play.


with that list i would keep a static gunline with assaults and meph behind them.
Make the most of shooting then pull back, letting the assaults go in with meph and a priest (leaving the 2nd priest with the gunline)

I would however give a pack to a single priest, or you could specialise a bit.

Remove an assault squad and throw in a honour guard unit.
You get a chalice with them as standard, so points wise your not paying as much, but you do get a better unit (downside is you cant score with them, upside is you will use the tacs for that)

Also, i'd drop the hand flamers in the assaults for basic flamers.
Its an assault wep, and its cheaper and stronger than a hand flamer.
so you save points and get a better weapon.



Your games: Ill be honest here as im not an eldar player, but assaulting a character hunter like meph with yriel and fuegan seems like a dumb move on its own lol.
Fuegan should be stripping wounds off him vian shooting while yriel helps out elsewhere.

If you want to take meph out in combat you think about it 1st.


1: force weapon or anything that causes instant death.
Throw them in a unit as a meat shield and laugh.
Skulltaker works very well for this.

2: Flood him with basic meatshields.
If they dont kill him, they have held him off for a while, if they do kill him, then its better.

3: mass power weapons are nasty.
Throw 15 burna boyz at him and watch him die.
Granted he will kill 5 or so of them, but they all get multiple PW attacks.



I have killed him quickly a few times aswell.
Got pissed off with him getting too close (he did lose 2 wounds due to perils lol, also, a winged dread helps ) so i threw a libby dread at him.
Granted i shouldnt have, but it got the job done well. (what, no S10 meph? your fethed)

Fuegan has eternal warrior and a 4+ invulnerable. Both have power weapons but I instant deathed Yriel without the force weapon as he is T3.

4 templates, Ass Cannons and Bolters whittles down any army quickly.