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"Chaos is a struggle to change, you must agree. Change rules all."
Greets everyone. As you can probably guess, I have just finished reading A Thousand sons Holy. Frikkin'. Hell. If there was ever a legion completely covered in mansauce, then the K sons are it. In fact, I enjoyed it so much, that I am seriously considering doing a full size Sons force at some time in the future.
Which leads to a problem; rules. After the loss of the Legion rules, that with the exception of the Sons of Horus big 9 of Chaos have sometimes been difficult to represent. Now, this isn't such a problem for some legions such as the World Eaters, who can use other codexes and still remain relatively 'fluffy', but for the Ksons the only other army that even comes close to there theme are the Necrons. Which speaks for itself. So, with the lack of a dedicated codex for the progeny of Magnus, I am going to make my own.
I should stress now that the point of this project is not to make an unbeatable army of ghost marines who rample over everything in their path. Rather, it is to potray the Thousand sons (or more accurately, warbands of exclusively Tzeentch following CSMs) in a manner that reflects their fluff. I'll be working through it as quickly as I can, but I want to give you time to rip apart each element seperatly before I bring it all togther at the end. Currently, I have a rough list of what I plan to put in the codex below, and psychic powers are also done (though I will post those up at a later date). So...yeah, if you want to critique the list or just show you're itrest, then please feel free to post.
What I hope to put in the codex:
HQ Ahriman
Memohotep the Undying ( a Sorcerer Dreadnaught charecter I posted on Dakka ages ago-you can probably find his rules if you scroll through my threads. Yeah, he isn't canon, but I love him and feel like he deserves a place in the 'dex)
Exalted Sorcerer of Tzeentch
Sorcerer of Tzeentch (The plain Sorcerer is a 'weaker' version than the Exalted sorcerer, who will have similar stats to a regular sorc'-in essence, think of this guy as the old chaos lieutenant.)
Daemon prince
0-1 Lord of change
Troops Thousand sons
Chaos Space marines of Tzeentch
Cultists of Tzeentch
0-1 Horrors of Tzeentch
Fast attack Spawn of chaos
Wyrmriders of Tzeentch (The only real 'new' idea in this codex besides Memohotep; basically, think Aspiring sorcerors riding small dragon like Daemons. I like the concept but I can see why some of you wouldn't, so feel free to naysay. Lastly, a big thanks to everyone who posted in the "Chaos Marines and Anti-grav tech" thread, which provided inspiration for this unit)
Chosen sorcerers on disks of Tzeentch.
Heavy support Land raider
Defiler
Predator
Vindicator
Havocs of Tzeentch (name is in pending; any ideas?)
Best wishes and regards,
LLF
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/23 18:53:00
2010/10/09 17:56:15
Subject: Re:Beginnings of 1000 sons codex project.
Sure the Thousand Sons are "mages" but they aren't that kind of a mage...
I think I got a name that could work for them.
Sons of Agony.
Perhaps they could have a Sorcerer attached to them like the Thousand Son's squads, and he could have some sort of abilitys to help the Devastator squad.
Or perhaps the whole squad could be made up of Sorcerers who use long range magic!
2010/10/10 12:37:07
Subject: Re:Beginnings of 1000 sons codex project.
Thanks for posting guys, I appreciate it . I like the name sons of agony, but it's just a bit too...Emperors children I feel. I'm leaning towards 'Heralds of Anubis', due to Anubis's role as the god of the Afterlife in ancient Egypt. And yes, they will have access to an Aspiring sorceror for a unit champion. The Sorceror unit will be the Chosen. Anyway, here is the list of psychic powers. A lot of them are in the 'current' Chaos codex, though sadly I'm not allowed to give out the actual rules due to IP policy (as a quick summary, Doombolt kills infantry, Bolt of change kills tanks, Warptime makes you better in combat, and Gift of chaos turns people into Chaos spawns). The new powers have their descriptions below; the cults in A Thousand Sons were the inspiration, and I think every major cult is represented bar the Atheanans. Comments, critiscm's-let me know.
Gift of Chaos: See Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Bolt of Change: See Codex: Chaos Space marines Warptime: See codex: Chaos space marines Wind of chaos: See Codex: Chaos space marines. Doombolt: See Codex: Chaos space marines. Sight of the Raven: This power is used at the beginning of your shooting phase. If cast successfully, the Sorcerer and any squad he accompanies count all their weapons as twin-linked for the remainder of their turn. Kine shield: This power is used at the start of the opponent's shooting phase. If successfully cast, the sorcerer and any unit he is with may reroll their invulnerable saves until the end of the phase. Gift of the Pavoni: This power is used at the start of your turn. If successfully cast, one independent character within 12” must reduce either their S or T (the player who owns the afflicted model may choose) by 1. Use the altered value for characteristic tests, Instant death etc.
Best wishes and regards, LLF
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/10/10 13:16:21
the_ferrett wrote:At the moment it comes of as just a blending of the two codexes plus a few ideas that should be Thousand suns that aint in yet (The Dread).
That said it is really well done.
Thanks for the compliment. And yes, you're correct in saying it is a blending of the two codexes. I'm not looking to rewrite the Chaos 'dex, just to provide some more 'thematic' options for people who have armies from the 3.5 ed legion rules and are now struggling to fit all the elements in.
I really like it so far. Give those havocs BS5 and take out the land raider as a separate choice. You can just make it part of the terminator article for a DT
Also, Kine shields should be a wargear option, not a spell. I Assume it's being cast by a nearby familiar, which could be an option rather than a spell. It should give the user: 2+ armor save 3++ invul save OR keep the original saves, and grant rerolls for both.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/10 14:22:07
If only ZUN!bar were here...
2010/10/10 14:53:39
Subject: Re:Beginnings of 1000 sons codex project.
I think you were going for a shortened version of telekinetic, but I would personally look for a different word. Although the kine shield COULD lead to some interesting conversions. . .
I would like to help with this project, and I have a certain PDF that may seriously aid you in this by acting as a basis as it includes updated Legion rules/Ahriman character/psychic powers.
Yes, it is a 5th ed CSM fandex. And might I say, it's a damned sight better than the current one. I'll PM you about the PDF later, Faunt.
Looks really awesome- I'll definitely follow it, I have a chance to but Ksons on cheaps, so it would make a nice distraction. I think that you should include something like Change Scions, like a cadre of aspiring sorcerers... would be kinda fun!
Some new options like spell books or servoskulls or something would be cool. Maybe something like a psychic hood?
Love the idea of a cow shield... haha, would be fun ot see on a model!
YOU ALL! DS:90S++G++MB++I+Pw40k09#+D++A+/eWD-R++T(S)DM+
: ANGRY MARINES! RAGE INFINITE!
Tyr Redfang's Great Company
: The Primal Host- Double as Angry Marines who went to far...
2010/10/10 18:50:29
Subject: Re:Beginnings of 1000 sons codex project.
I think you were going for a shortened version of telekinetic, but I would personally look for a different word. Although the kine shield COULD lead to some interesting conversions. . .
Dude read the thousands son's book and you shall see.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Thanks Dark, that would really help.
@BeRzErKeR-Really? That's...interesting.
@Samus-It's an interesting concept, and I'll consider it. I think the second option would be more balanced than the first, otherwise we'll have an army of Vulkan's walking around.
As an aside (though I think I already know the answer), do you think sorcerers should have to pay for their powers or just choose freely?
as it stands the T sons in the codex are terrible, you should just redo the unit as a whole.
such as
Rubic marine wsbs s t w i a ldsv pts 3 4 4 4(5) 2 2 1 10 3+ 30 Wargear:Bolters, CCW special rules:Wraithsight(i.e you need sorceror, but its option al) this may sound like a random point cost but i have been playing with this unit for 2 years now, tweaking it a little
the sorceror wsbs s t w i a ldsv pts 3 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+ 20 Wargear: force weapon Special rules: Kine Sheild: The rubic marines SV counts as invunerable(pass LD test)30pts Bolt of change: Heavy d6 str6 ap3(LD test)20pts Lance of Destiny: Heavy D3 Str 4+D6 ap2 lance(LD test, failed test means shots hit own unit)30pts
Note: this is for a pure TK force, not as part of the normal codex
Mmm.. I think you need to be creative and make 2 or so "new" units. I'd suggest a heavy and probably a troop or elite.
Heres a couple ideas:
Elite
-----------------
Name: Glimmer of Chaos
Type: Jump Infantry
Description: The Glimmer of Chaos is a being unlike anything else in the known universe. It constantly changes shape, phasing in and out as though it exits reality and returns. Glimmers rarely appear solo, though it is not unheard of.
Unit Size: 1-5
Stats:
Wsbs s t w i a ldsv 1 4 2 3 1 11 10 5++
Points Cost: 45 pts/model
Special Rules: Skimmer, Deep Strike, Fearless
Ephimeral: Glimmers of Chaos are constantly shifting form, often turning into a mist in between forms. As such, they have a 5+ invunerable save and can not be harmed by any weapon that is not a power weapon, force weapon, AP 1 or AP 2.
Doom Haze: Due to their shifting constantly between spaces, glimmers draw large amounts of warp energy. During an assault every model in base contact with a Glimmer of Chaos takes a str 3/ap - hit. This is resolved before any blows are struck (they're being sucks into the warp with it!)
Where'd it go?: At the end of controlling players turn, roll a d6. On a roll of a 4+, the glimmer unit has teleported. Roll 2d6 + scatter. If the glimmer ends up on top of a unit or terrain, reduce the scatter distance so they are no more than 1" from the unit.
Gaze of Chaos: Assault 1 Str 6/AP 1 Blast - the Glimmer focuses itself into a concentrated bundle of chaotic warp energy, spraying itself over an area. After the attack it resolved place the glimmer and its unit 1" from the unit or model they attacked (afterall, its throwing itself at its victim!)
The general idea behind this unit is just what Tzeetch is; Chaos. Its hard to pin down, constantly moving around and flickering from combat to combat. The low toughness keeps with the fact that its mist, as does the low WS/Strength (its not for HtH afterall). It does an AOE CC attack to keep with its misty appearance, plus is immune to things that wouldn't really bother things completely made of warp energy. Its whole purpose is to spread chaos!
Heavy Support
------------------
Gate Keeper
Type: Monstrous Creature
Description: The Gate Keeper is a rare sight; these are the guardians of the great gates inside Tzeetch's realm. Unlike most of Tzeetch's subjects, Gate Keepers love tearing victims limb from limb rather than allow them to get lost in chaos.
Stats:
Wsbs s t w i a ldsv 7 -- 6 6 3 4 4 10 3+/3+
Points Cost: 175 pts
Special Rules: Flier, Fearless, Furious Charge, eternal warrior
Staff of Woe: Gate Keepers are armed with a great hooked staff created from the crystals of Tzeetchs lair. The crystals, possessing of great warp energy, cause any if the most brave to fall to madness when touched by them. Whenever the Gate Keeper does an unsaved wound to a model, it must take a leadership test at -1. If this test is failed the model suffers from Instant Death.
The Gate Keeper: Gate Keepers are masters at defense and are used to waiting (for millenia!). As such, they may capture objectives as though they were a troop choice.
Elusive: Even though Gate Keepers are more rough and tumble than your typical creature from Tzeetch's realm, they are not immune to the effects of their master. Due to the elusive nature of Gate Keepers they have a 5+ invunerable save.
A HtH Tzeetch monster thats for holding the most difficult objectives!
Formosa wrote:as it stands the T sons in the codex are terrible, you should just redo the unit as a whole.
such as
Rubic marine
wsbs s t w i a ldsv pts
3 4 4 4(5) 2 2 1 10 3+ 30
Wargear:Bolters, CCW special rules:Wraithsight(i.e you need sorceror, but its option al)
this may sound like a random point cost but i have been playing with this unit for 2 years now, tweaking it a little
the sorceror
wsbs s t w i a ldsv pts
3 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 3+ 20
Wargear: force weapon
Special rules: Kine Sheild: The rubic marines SV counts as invunerable(pass LD test)30pts
Bolt of change: Heavy d6 str6 ap3(LD test)20pts
Lance of Destiny: Heavy D3 Str 4+D6 ap2 lance(LD test, failed test means shots hit own unit)30pts
Note: this is for a pure TK force, not as part of the normal codex
Why does the Sorcerer cost less than the Rubric Marines?
Wow, lots of good points here.
@Lord of battles: The Chosen sorcerers will be able to take disks, worry your little Space Wolfy head not. @Zid: That Glimmer is an interesting concept, though it may need to be toned down a bit if it was included since right now some armies such as Necrons could have a lot of trouble even touching it. The Gatekeeper I kinda' like, but again it may have to be altered before final inclusion in the fandex.
@Formosa: I'm going to sound like a real jerk here, and I apologise for that, but I think that the 'current' TS rules are more in keeping with the fluff than these ones. There might be some slight 'wiggle' room, but I think using the stats presented in the current 'dex provides a good base to work off later. Sorry and all that .
@Asgeirr & Samus; MOAR spells?!! You want more?!...all right then, here you go:
Reality is an illusion: The sorcerer invokes his master Tzeentch to warp the ground around him to buckle and change, allowing the Thousand sons to traverse it with greater ease. This power is used at the beginning of your turn. The Sorcerer, or one unit within 6", treats all terrain as open ground for the remainder of the turn (note however that if the unit attempts to move through impassable terrain, they must be able to clear it in one movement phase; if they cannot, then they must stop in front of it). This power will affect any charectors who have joined the designated squad, and vice versa.
The third eye of Tzeentch: The sorcerer stares into the very soul of an enemy psyker, gleaning precious knowledge of his power and secrets. Use this power at the start of your turn. If this power is succesfully cast, then the sorcerer may immeadiatly select one enemy psyker within 12"-the sorcerer counts as knowing one of his spell (the Thousand sons player may choose) for the remainder of the turn.
Also, I had an idea for some armoury wargear (yes, there will be an armoury hopefully) based off the runts from the Ork codex-Thralls. The idea being that a sorcerer could purchase up to 3 thralls, and there would be 3 different 'classes' so to speak. I've got two, so I'd appreciate some help in coming up with the last one:
Power thrall: One use only. The sorcerer may expend this thrall to roll one extra dice when taking a psychic test, removing the highest. Note that this can cause perils of the warp.
Knowledge thrall: One use only. The sorcerer may exped this thrall to use one more power than he would normally be allowed that turn.
Finally, a girl was playing this song at school today and it immeadiatly made me think of the Battle for Prospero-thoughts?:
yep the sorceror is an upgrade, sorry i wasnt clear.
unfortunately as players and fans we all have our own views on how they should be.. almost chaotic eh?
as to the T4(5) this is because of the 2 wounds, all added up my unit is 330pts before powers are added, this is because of how tough a unit it is. again my opinion is that Rubic marines should be the unit that can take insane ammounts of punnishment, also note the lack of fearless, this i put in for balance reasons, rubic marines are tough as old boots but should be weak in CC
. I like the name sons of agony, but it's just a bit too...Emperors children I feel. I'm leaning towards 'Heralds of Anubis', due to Anubis's role as the god of the Afterlife in ancient Egypt. And yes, they will have access to an Aspiring sorceror for a unit champion. The Sorceror unit will be the Chosen. 
YOU ALL! 
Tyr Redfang's Great Company
.