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This is a topic about where the inspiration for Orks came from.
I present my idea.
Orks were inspired by Football hooligans/general nutcase fans. (maybe just Millwall supporters)
I was on Dakka one day when i thought both orks and footie hooligans are incredibly similar.
I'm gonna present what i belive to be core aspects to Orks and show how they relate to modern day football hooligans.

Violence.
Orks fight and win and even when they lose they come back later and win.
Football hooligans are, too use 1 word, insane when their team loses the ultimate result is a very large fight.

Numbers.
Orks are usually found in huge mobs and their confidance grows the larger their numbers get.
Football hooligans get more and more violent in bigger and bigger groups.

Belief i.e. Red things go faster
When Orks belive something will work it works this is enhanced further by more orks in the vicinity (it gets to the point where it's almost a religious experience)
Football hooligans support their teams through everything, i can't speak for other countries but in Britian it's practically the first religion everything else is second there are even times during a match where the entire crowd is thinking the exact same thing (usually something demeaning about the ref but go figure) at those moments it's practically a religious experience.

Social stucture.
Both Orks and Football hooligans base their social structure on strength and size meaning the biggest get to the top and stay there until something bigger turns up.

Please state further thought. Do you disagree or agree? are there any points you think i missed? (I'll happily answer them if so)

Does that mean Space Marines are Buddhists?

Ediin wrote:Does that mean Space Marines are Buddhists?

I hope not.
On the other hand the Horus Heresy would have been hilarious

Ok that was just brillant.

purplefood wrote:

Ediin wrote:Does that mean Space Marines are Buddhists?

I hope not.
On the other hand the Horus Heresy would have been hilarious

Hehehe

Back to topic, yes, they do have striking similarities, but I don't believe that hooligans were the only source of inspiration when GW created the Orks.

*coughtolkiencough*

Nah there just orcs in space...

I thought that too but they aren't very similar (in my opinion anyway). Whereas GW is British based and started in what the seventies? This is at a point where riots over football matches aren't uncommon and as i said Football is practically a religion in Britain so even if they weren't directly copying them then they must have unconsiously made them similar. Again just my opinion.

Chances are there's a whole bunch of influences with the Orks. They are, of course, a translation of the Fantasy Orcs to 4OK, and as such retain a lot of their "ancestral" traits from that game. In addition, you'e got some good evidence of British cultural references, such as the hooliganism in football, but I'd say that was more of a minor thing. They also have the inevitable Tolkien influence (I'm fairly sure he was the first to use "Orc" in such a context) which you'd expect in any fantasy/sci-fi race worth it's salt.

Fair point but it's hard to deny the similarities between them maybe football holliganism helped create the Fantasy orcs who in turn created the 40k Orks.

Funny points, and it's possible, with you crazy brits and your soccer riots. (american football contains even more violence on the field!)

purplefood wrote:Fair point but it's hard to deny the similarities between them maybe football holliganism helped create the Fantasy orcs who in turn created the 40k Orks.

It's certainly a possibility. After all, GW did use some pretty crazy sources for their races.

Yeah although in fantasy i do like the Empire and Bretonians being German and French (Generalised) while Britian (Albion in the fluff) is a land of mystery i really do like that.

Talking on Albion for a second. Didnt the lizardmen take that over and turn it into a jungle? . Not quite the same any more. but I get what you meant.

I haven't read much about it but considering lizardmen are cold blooded invading a temperate island where it rains a lot is probably on the list of bad things to do.

But see when the Lizardmen use their awesome magic to heat up the center of the Island and turn it into a jungle then that temperate climate isn't really a problem.

As far as the Orks I always thought they where inspired by old school British thugs what with the accents and what not, throw that together with the concepts given for fantasy Orcs (which where inspired by Tolkien who in turn was inspired by Norse mythology) in a 40k setting and there ya go. Of course you have to add in factors as far as technology and such but that can easily be chocked up to a Mad Max scenario blended with a little genetic memory like so many sci-fi stories.

Basicly I agree that the Orks where created from a number of things as it is well known that GW has taken inspiration from many differant existing Sci-fi and fantasy genres (Tyranids+Imperial Guard=Bugs+Starship Troopers), not just one.

Fair enough again. The main reason i was thinking this is that GW is British based since 1975 (if wikipedia is to be belived) so culturally this would have had a big impact on them and may have filtered into their work more than they knew.
Or it could be accidental and nothing to do with it.

And yet, there's far, far more to them than simple "soccer hooliganism". Unlike soccer hooligans, Orks are actually competent. And intelligent.

I'm not sure you can put the Guard down to a Starship Troopers reference. The Cadians, maybe, but the other regiments are influenced by all over the place - Imperial Russia, British Redcoats, G.Is in Vietnam, Soviet Red Army and even WWI Germany.

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's far, far more to them than simple "soccer hooliganism". Unlike soccer hooligans, Orks are actually competent. And intelligent.

That is actually a very good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I'm not sure you can put the Guard down to a Starship Troopers reference. The Cadians, maybe, but the other regiments are influenced by all over the place - Imperial Russia, British Redcoats, G.Is in Vietnam, Soviet Red Army and even WWI Germany.

I think when they were designing the guard they just wanted to represent humanity at whole throughout it's history, which they did, but annoyingly enough most of the really awesome models are OOP.

purplefood wrote:I thought that too but they aren't very similar (in my opinion anyway). Whereas GW is British based and started in what the seventies? This is at a point where riots over football matches aren't uncommon and as i said Football is practically a religion in Britain so even if they weren't directly copying them then they must have unconsiously made them similar. Again just my opinion.

Space Marines = Knights,
Orcs= Scots and Irishmen.
Eldar= French (skinny)
CSM = British Drunks
Necrons= Terminator
Tau= China/anime
Dark Eldar = Norwegians (Heavy metal)
Tyranids = Dinosaurs (With a Alien Reference)

Yeah, those characterizations are dumb and inaccurate nowadays

Yeah Orks aren't like Scots and Irishmen and also i know about 6/7 million people who would punch you for missing them out (not me)

*Falls over laughing at the Scots = Orcs reference*

Funny but... no.

Orks are fungus! So basically they could be Americans.....
Wait sorry
Imperial Guard = Americans
Orcs= All non-European countries -america and china

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's far, far more to them than simple "soccer hooliganism". Unlike soccer hooligans, Orks are actually competent. And intelligent.

That is actually a very good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I'm not sure you can put the Guard down to a Starship Troopers reference. The Cadians, maybe, but the other regiments are influenced by all over the place - Imperial Russia, British Redcoats, G.Is in Vietnam, Soviet Red Army and even WWI Germany.

I think when they were designing the guard they just wanted to represent humanity at whole throughout it's history, which they did, but annoyingly enough most of the really awesome models are OOP.

*sigh*... yeah....
I do so miss the Valhallans. Those guys were super-hardcore.

Asherian Command wrote:What I don't want to be racist

You failed.

Hard.

Seriously, just quit while you're behind.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Melissia wrote:And yet, there's far, far more to them than simple "soccer hooliganism". Unlike soccer hooligans, Orks are actually competent. And intelligent.

That is actually a very good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I'm not sure you can put the Guard down to a Starship Troopers reference. The Cadians, maybe, but the other regiments are influenced by all over the place - Imperial Russia, British Redcoats, G.Is in Vietnam, Soviet Red Army and even WWI Germany.

I think when they were designing the guard they just wanted to represent humanity at whole throughout it's history, which they did, but annoyingly enough most of the really awesome models are OOP.

*sigh*... yeah....
I do so miss the Valhallans. Those guys were super-hardcore.

Personally the Praetorians were THE most badass regiments around. Defeat Chaos and save the galaxy all in time for elevenses and tea.

Damn straight. And they had trumpeters instead of vox-casters. TRUMPETERS.

Melissia wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:What I don't want to be racist

You failed.

Hard.

Seriously, just quit while you're behind.

+1 to Melisia


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Damn straight. And they had trumpeters instead of vox-casters. TRUMPETERS.

You know you're doomed when you hear trumpets.

Melissia wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:What I don't want to be racist

You failed.

Hard.

Seriously, just quit while you're behind.

Actually I was told that in my LGS.
By one of the red shirts. I ignored my sig.
Now I am sad..... Remember Kids Don't listen to a red shirt or a black shirt ever when talking about lore. As this one time a black shirt once told me that Macaldor is still alive.... Even though he burned away.
Anyway Orks are decesended form Kroks. A guriellia like species. The Kroks are known for making digital weapons if i can remember correctly.
But yes Orks sound like Scots. As they both swear alot, use the word git. I'm talking about language. Not Looks.
No The only people that I think are close to looking like Orcs are potheads.

Well anyway I miss alot of guard armies. Like the Vallhans, the Zulu, The Paeterioans