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Hi all,

I'm playing Daemons (1750) for the first time today and I'm pretty worried about what i'll face. So with that in mind, any suggestions as to what to include to help me out??

At the moment, a Librarian is a must and I was also thinking of taking Lysander with some TH/SS termies.

The rest I'm not so sure about, rifleman/Plasma dread? Tacs in Razorbacks? HF/MM speeders? Dakka/combi pred? Scouts with Camo cloaks? Sternguard? Drop pods? I have the models, not the experience...

Acorns to anybody who can advise me!

first two ideas sound good. I'm not sure what a rifleman dread would do in that fight, as autocannons are usually employed to bust transports, and demons havent got any of those.... tacs are probably ok here as most demons arent that tough to kill with bolters. I'd take a heavy flamer on the razor back. HF/MM speeders are always useful. wouldnt take the pred... what you really want to do is flame thrower the demons. sternguard are fine as a vehicle for combi flamers. drop pods are a negative. demons have a hard time with vehicles you dont want to solve that problem for him by taking a drop pod. what you want is to stay inside your vehivle and run around the board flaming the crap out of him. your list should be based on flame throwers and mechanized transports.

correction: leave out lysander and take vulkan. your flamers autohit, then they reroll wounds, then he rerolls saves. the demon player will be in alot of trouble. just be sure to keep the librarian safe he isnt much of a fighter is he. AF

Rifleman dread could be useful--4 shots twin-linked at s7 is pretty solid. He can also assault and immobilize a unit of enemy elites like bloodcrushers.

Librarian w/null zone x2 and anything with Large Blasts multiple shots and mechanise everything. As a former deamon player 'null zone' just plain sucks.

- Scouts with sniper rifles
- Sternguard (poisoned rounds nullify high toughness & they're a bit hardier than the scouts)
- and as already mentioned, libby w/ null zone

Rinkydink wrote:Hi all,

I'm playing Daemons (1750) for the first time today and I'm pretty worried about what i'll face. So with that in mind, any suggestions as to what to include to help me out??

At the moment, a Librarian is a must and I was also thinking of taking Lysander with some TH/SS termies.

The rest I'm not so sure about, rifleman/Plasma dread? Tacs in Razorbacks? HF/MM speeders? Dakka/combi pred? Scouts with Camo cloaks? Sternguard? Drop pods? I have the models, not the experience...

Acorns to anybody who can advise me!

Well, number one is obviously Null zone Librarian. Thats a give-in

I have a lot of experience with Vulkan, and I found Daemons to be my hardest opponent while fielding him. Meltas are pretty ineffective because you simply dont have enough shots. Daemon MCs have high tough but rely on invul saves, so things like autocannons and cheap missiles are good= higher volume of shots=better against daemons. Plus they dont field vehicles, so melta is useless there. I never find flamers that effective either.

Lysander, IMO, would be a better choice in this situation. He can go toe-to-toe with any MC the daemons can field and still come out on top. Hes Str 10 ap 1 eternal warrior with a 3++ save. You can put him with a retinue of TH/SS termies, or some sternguard to take advantage of his bolter drill.

What I do find effective agaisnt daemons is high volume of shots. That means lots of high str shots like assault cannon, auto cannon, missiles, coupled with massed bolter fire, not worrying about AP at all. One common Daemon unit is the Fateweaver, and if you see that thing, you wanna send as much long range fire downrange on him until he fails hes LD check and flies away.

Rifleman/plas dread= Rifleman dreadnought yes. Lots of str 7 shots with help you with Daemons. Force him to make lots of saves, just avoid CC with monsterous creatures.

Tacs in razorbacks= These are a staple SM unit, so obviously yes. I personally prefer rhinos, but thats just a personal choice.

HF/MM speeders= Althought these are a phenomal unit, against Daemons they are not that great IMO. Only a single str 8 shot isnt enough, and the flamer isnt that great against army-wide invul saves. There are better choices for Daemons like the Tornado (Assault cannon/HB) or Typhoon. If you do not own these, just leave the speeders home. FA isn't that critical agaisnt Daemons.

Dakka/combi pred= Dakka pred would be good for forcing saves. Just be careful because its stationary. His whole army deep strikes, so it will be popped easily. Protect them if you are gonna field them.

Scouts with camo cloaks= A personal favorite of mine, these will be great holding objectives (In bolstered cover if you use Lysander for a 2+ save), and will be able to damage any toughness value he fields. Do not expect them to do amazing damage, remember their primary task is holding objectives.

Sternguard= Sternguard would be nice; some massed hellfire volleys coupled with null zone will take down pretty much anything he fields. Just protect them well and don't squander them.

Drop pods= Against Daemons, NO NO NO. He deep strikes in starting on turn 2 and onward, whilst you need to put them down on turn 1. Useless against Daemons; leave them at home.

answer- ally with daemonhunters
Libby w/ null zone and avenger pretty darn good too.

Null Zone is the bane of all Daemon Armies. Mech things up, vehicles are also tough for daemons. If you know your opponent is taking Bloodcrushers I would suggest a Dread for each squad of crushers. I use this tactic often against Daemon players who bring blood crushers.

Normally the crushers are going to be in your opponents first wave. Deploy the two dreads in your front lines, when the crushers drop in assault them with the dreads. Crushers can't pen AV12, most people don't take the rending power on the leader, and the dread eats a crusher every two turns or so. This effectively nullifies the most effective unit in your opponents army. The key to this strategy is to make sure you keep your opponent from being able to charge another unit like a Daemon Prince in to kill the dread. This should prove easy if you hold your opponent to the correct assault rules (i.e. having to move to get into base contact if possible) and by wrapping the CC in your own units.

Pretty situational, I know, but I hope it is helpful. Personally I like:

Vulkan or Lysander and Libby with Null Zone.
5 TH/SS Termies + LRR
Ironclad Dread
Ironclad Dread

Tactical Squads with Flamer/ML/PF/Combi-flamer in Rhino or Razorback
Speeders with Heavy Flamers.

Flamers, especially Vulkan flamers, really chew through daemons. Massed bolter fire will whittle down all those invul save only troop choices. Charge and tie up Plague Bearers only if you have to.

Many, many thanks for the replies folks.

In the end I went for
LRC, 4 SS/TH termies, 1 LC termie, Lysander
2 full tacs, Rzrbacks ML/flamer
Scouts Camo cloaks
2 dreads, 1 rifleman, 1 PC/Dccw
Dakka pred
2 HF/MM speeders

Null zone and the termies were awesome and I pulled off a 2/0 on turn six. However, I was losing 0/2 on turn 5...

against Daemons I'd recommend:

Sternguard (hellfire rounds wound on a 2+ giving enemy more wounds to save)

Terminators w/ Heavy Flamer & Chainfists.

Soul Grinders are HARD AS NAILS so trust me on the chainfists.

Other things to consider:

Vindicators. Str 10 large blast = a lot of inv saves to make

Orbital Bombardment - same deal

Thunderfire Cannons (taken in 3s)

Landspeeder Typhoons (missile goodness)

my reccomendations is to load up on lots of shooting.

the only things with Armor saves will be Princes and Juggernoughts with Ironhide and it's a 3+ so Krak missiles will be fine.



for the normal deamons your average bolter will work wonders. LRCs will may them cry.

Tactical Terminators with Clyclone missiles.


watch out for Bloodletters and shoot them down before they get into CC as they all have PWs. they only have a 5++ save

Dreadnoughts are good against everything except Deamon Princes as they will go before Soul Grinders and everything else can't hurt AV12-13 in CC so you can force Fearless wounds on their pathetic invulns.



force those saves.

Null Zone for Kairos Fateweaver and LOTS AND LOTS OF BOLTERS

hmm I never went with Lib and I always won just fine.
I just used sternguard and thunderfire cannons and shot everything to hell.
I took out an entire nurgle army the first time and a bloodcrusher fateweave or w/e the guy that allows the rerolling of invul saves and a bloodthirster the second time.
That fateweaver is an ASS HOLE to kill though he survived over 10 wounds in 1 turn and ended up failing 1 save in the end i killed him through wounds he never flew away. but he is an ass to kill.

I think that lib may be over rated a bit but i can see how he may help.

forcing a ton of saves is the only thing that destroys daemons really and sterguard wiped out an full unit of blood letters the turn they came into play lol.

The key is to shoot them to death and use tactical marines as meatshields to protect sternguard. I used chapter master that game. with just a relic blade and thats it.

As a Daemon player I can tell you a librarian is not overrated. You go from saving 33% of your wounds to saving 11% of your wounds...On big baddies like a Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon it is even more obnoxious since the DP is probably trying to save Plasma/Melta hits and the GD goes from a 50% save rate to a 25% save rate. That means you kill them in 5 wounds rather than 6. There is nothing worse than a KoS with 1 wound assaulting something expensive.

Libby overrated no, not in the least. If the opponent has an avg dice roll and gets to go second preferred for them. you'll be knees deep in them after 1 turn of shooting. I enjoy typhoon speeders > mm/hf speeders

the librarian crushes demons. he's not overrated at all. on a good day demons dont make many saves. the librarian means they hardly make any.

ohhhhh ok I was only thinking about his psy hood I know what you guys are talking about now I actually forgot about that power lol.
yeah thats actually damn good.

but I never used it VS daemons.

I think I would have won like 3rd turn with it lol

The psychic hood is indeed worthless because there is not a single psychic power in the Daemon Codex.

yeah thats actually true. thats why I couldn't understand why every one was talking about him. any who now I know. and I may give it a try next game >
Sternguard 2+ wounds with re rolling invul saves is going to hurt even more. and TFC I actually killed his fateweaver with the thunderfire lol

Librarian with Null Zone. Pedro Kantor with Sternguard by the tonne firing Hellfire rounds = dead daemons

Dakka preds eat up the mid range t5 daemons pretty good, on crushers and princes I use the Typhoon speeders. Last daemon loss was to Yermom @ Battleforsalvation GT He made some amazing saves ... I failed in knowing a couple rules ... and I could not kill a soulgrinder with 12 krak missles and 4 melta shots ...

My anti-Daemons army I'm building now:

Pedro Kantor
175

Librarian
Null Zone & The Avenger
100

ELITES

Sternguard (10 man)
x 3 Combi-Melta
x 2 Combi-Flamer
DT: Rhino w/ HK
310

Sternguard (10 man)
X 3 Combi-Melta
x 1 Combi-Flamer
DT: Rhino w/ HK
305

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man) combat squadded
Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ HK
230

Tactical Squad (10 man) cs
Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Missile Launcher
DT: Rhino w/ HK
230

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder
HF & MM
70

Landspeeder
HF & MM
70

HEAVY SUPPORT

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
HK Missile
130

Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
HK Missile
130

HK Missiles are for a turn 1 missile fest, taking out any transports or tough characters at range.
Pedro and librarian go with CS tacticals while Sternguard head for objectives (if objective game). Once there the Sternguard can deploy and fire special ammo at any daemon that comes their way while the predators sit back and blast soul grinders / monstrous creatures with lascannons.

Oh and orbital bombardment on turn 1.

Man this is a bit off topic but I'm gonna be starting daemons soon and you're all freaking me out... -.- I don't wanna die!

put them on the square bases and play fantesy if you feel bad about 40k

nice that you can get 2 different power levels and 2 different rule sets with one army.

Post removed due to improper language.


--yakface

Dude, watch your language

there are kids on this forum

stealth992 wrote:Man this is a bit off topic but I'm gonna be starting daemons soon and you're all freaking me out... -.- I don't wanna die!

Don't sweat it. Nobody brings a librarian w/ null zone unless they are tailoring their list toward Daemons. Unless you and your opponent agree to it like in planetstrike or something similar, games tend to dry up. Nobody wants to play against a tailored list. And, word gets out fast in small circles.

Fateweaver plus cover/armor help mitigate them until you can take him out. Bloodcrushers are big enough to obscure 50% of Fatey. Sternguard are still scary no matter what, though. Kill them fast.

@ the OP
I think Vulkan would be better suited than Pedro. You can bring all the same toys, but be more effective against a wider range of armies. Volume of fire brings down Daemons. Twinlinked flamers/heavy flamers are just digusting. Put your shooty-shooty in cover. Only Slaanesh and Nurgle have access to grenades. Shoot them first. Especially Slaanesh. They are very fast, but very fragile. If a Khorn unit is nearby it is better to assault them than the other way around. All, but the Princes have Furious Charge. Assault Tzeentch units as they are very poor in close combat. They make up all the Daemon shooting and stopping them early can save your transports for late game.

Deep Strike your melta style daemons as close to tanks as possible, and your flamers of tzeentch close to the pesky sternguard. once the flames die down most of those marines will be dead...

SAys the marine player taking sternguard....

Mechnomancer wrote:

Don't sweat it. Nobody brings a librarian w/ null zone unless they are tailoring their list toward Daemons.

I almost always run a Libby in Terminator Armor w/ Storm Shield and Nullzone and Avenger as my HQ in my all comers list. While it does own daemons, there are many other units I find null zone for cracking. I tend to run the libby w/ Hammernators in a Land Raider. Nullzone + Thunder hammers will kill just about anything one would run in to. Not to mention Dark Eldar Flickerfields give invulsaves that can be wrecked w/ null zone as well. Avenger also allows the librarian to bully power armor based squads in the end game. About the only list I don't get my points back with the librarian against is Orks (though on a side note I did tarpit a 30 man boyz squad w/ a lone librarian for 5 rounds of combat. Not the norm i know) due to there lack of invul saves (I just don't see nob bikers that much these days.

Some Space Marine players take a librarian with null zone as a matter of course.

Null Zone is too useful an ability not to take librarian, and even if it turns out it's not needed you still have a unit that can cause instant death and flame infantry / take on land raiders / monstrous creatures (Might of Ancients)