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Well, I guess our meta are just different. I never run into them outside the doubling up of them in an anti-Daemon list.

Librarian is pretty useless against Eternal Warrior Daemons, but allied GK could help (if possible). Just stay out of combat and shoot.

phantommaster wrote:Librarian is pretty useless against Eternal Warrior Daemons, but allied GK could help (if possible). Just stay out of combat and shoot.

Libbys are not taken for their force weapon, they are taken for Null Zone (which cripples daemons). Libby needs to be well protected though, because he folds like a wet paper bag in CC with no invul save/2 wounds

scubasteve04 wrote:

phantommaster wrote:Librarian is pretty useless against Eternal Warrior Daemons, but allied GK could help (if possible). Just stay out of combat and shoot.

Libbys are not taken for their force weapon, they are taken for Null Zone (which cripples daemons). Libby needs to be well protected though, because he folds like a wet paper bag in CC with no invul save/2 wounds

I usually spring for the points to throw the libby in terminator armor w/ a storm shield. It gives him a decent save and he can then bully around power armor squads that don't have fists. But even then, they still aren't much in CC.

Most things you would want to use a force weapon on are probably better in CC than the libby, and will probably kill him first. My favorite tactic is to leave the libby cowering in a land raider w/ nullzone active whilst hammernators charge out and put the hurt on whatever you want dead.

Rinkydink wrote:Many, many thanks for the replies folks.

In the end I went for
LRC, 4 SS/TH termies, 1 LC termie, Lysander
2 full tacs, Rzrbacks ML/flamer
Scouts Camo cloaks
2 dreads, 1 rifleman, 1 PC/Dccw
Dakka pred
2 HF/MM speeders

Null zone and the termies were awesome and I pulled off a 2/0 on turn six. However, I was losing 0/2 on turn 5...

Nice job. One thing about dreads. They work very well in a SM list but watch out for Fiends as they will eat armor up.

One thing I don't really like about topics like this is the amount of list tailoring that goes on in them.

That being said, I usually build my army around the idea of being able to kill daemons will give you the firepower to handle most other armies. If I lose against daemons, I tweak the list (since it means I went too low on small arms fire again, lol).

As for the Librarian with null zone. I take him every game I'm not playing a bike list. I've not activated null zone all that often TBH, but when you need it, you REALLY need it (think TH/SS or other invul save nasty units) I rarely ever take other HQs, since CC characters aren't usually points efficient, and their buffs tend to be unit specific, or special character chapter tactics (and I like vanilla tactics just fine).

notabot187 wrote:One thing I don't really like about topics like this is the amount of list tailoring that goes on in them.

I agree, I usually take a balanced list, as I'm more of a fun player than anything else. However, I was under orders by my opponent as he wanted as hard a time as possible before he tweaked his list for a tourney. For my part, there is just something about Daemons that fills me with dread. This also happened the first time I played Tyranids too! I guess 'Know thy enemy,' is always a good credo!

Bat rep for the daemons vs Marines is here; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329137.page

stealth992 wrote:Man this is a bit off topic but I'm gonna be starting daemons soon and you're all freaking me out... -.- I don't wanna die!

don't worry! I killed pedro cantor in CC with 3 pink horrors! Obviously, I wouldn't depend on it, he rolled horribly, and only had 1 wound left to start with. Oh, and I hate null zone so hard. my only defense against it is fateweaver, (me and my friend agreed that nullzone and fateweaver cancel each other out) and I just fire everything I can at whatever librarian is using it. The librarian will be helpful, but he will also be a target. Defend him at any cost, and you should be fine. edit: any daemon player against null zone will do anything in their power to get rid of it. This will lead to foolish head-on charges, and sacrificing units that should be staying alive. Use this to your advantage- set up a gauntlet for the daemon player to run through, assaulting terminator squad after terminator squad. With any luck, he'll sink way more of his army than he should trying to wipe out the null zone, or he'll see through the plot and ignore it. If he gives up, great! he has to re-roll his inv's for the rest of the game!
@ below:
also, with the whole deepstriking thing, if you take out his chaos icons, and spread out your troops to deny him large areas, you'll effectively cripple his army. every mishapped unit is another unit you won't have to deal with. which is bad for the daemon player when you put all of his nurgle and khorne stuff waaay off on the other side of the board where they can't do anything.
@below below: sorry, wasn't aware of the faux pas. I forget to check the age of the forum/last post.

Without tailoring your list specifically against Daemons, here is my advice (as a Daemons player):

1. Every daemon unit will need to deep strike to arrive on the board, and that means they will always come in clustered. Blast/templates kill them like gangbusters.
2. AP and high strength is mostly useless, with all daemons having invuln saves and eternal warrior. More shots are strictly better, and only Nurgle units and Daemon Princes/Greater Daemons have enough toughness for even the crappiest gun in your codex to be too low in strength.
3. Except for Monstrous Creatures in CC, Daemons have almost no anti-vehicle capability. Stuff like heavy bolters aren't worth taking on the off-chance you fight daemons, but Assault Cannons and (Frag) Missile Launchers are good heavy weapons.

Generally, you want to shoot the crap out of Bloodletters as soon as they land, and tarpit Bloodcrushers and Monstrous Creatures. Use your toughest units like Special Character HQs and Dreads to tie up the Daemon heavy-hitters. Anything without a power weapon in the Daemons codex doesn't really outmatch a squad of Marines, so you have free reign of the board as long as Daemon Princes aren't wiping out entire units of Terminators, etc.

Hey new guys...year old topic. Threadomancy is kinda frowned on. Welcome to dakka, but try not to dig up old threads.