Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here is a question that has been bugging me whenever I read fluff about Chaos. One of the big incentives offered by Chaos is power and the ability to revel in destruction and gore. You get all this power, all these slaves under your command, you are awesome and demand fear and respect.

BUT I see some huge drawbacks that make me wonder why someone in their right mind, in particular someone like a SM or more to the point a Primarch would embrace Chaos. What am I talking about? The physical and mental changes that one undergoes when they embrace Chaos. Purely on a physical level we have Chaos lords and sorcerors with snakes for hair, fangs, skin falling off, eyes growing in odd places, inhuman limbs, general nastiness and we won't even get into the Nurgle followers.

Secondly is that you are a slave. In a way you no longer really control your own actions. Look at the novel Fulgrim for example. The Emperor's Children who fell to Chaos and specifically Slaanesh worship were reduced to acting like Meph Tweekers as opposed to the professional and in possession of their own wits SM they were before they fell. Did a majority of the Legion really prefer listening to warbling nonsensical music, painting with blood and feces and all other manner of grotesqueries as opposed to their prior lives as SM? And not only that but you buy into devotion to this god who does not really care about you and treats you like something it found at the bottom of its boot and if it does "favor" you what you end up with is mutation.

Why would someone want that? Why would someone want to become a deformed, gibbering mess when they can have a more stable life in service to the Emperor. Yes, I realize the argument that they would be trading one master for another, but from my POV life under the Emperor (pre-Golden Throne) was nowhere near as bad as random mutation and losing your mind in devotion to some alien god.

And for the Primarchs it makes even less sense because in the Imperium they are powerful, demand respect and fear and get all the goodies that go with Chaos. Except they're not mutating and watching their legions devolve into a cabal of madmen.

What exactly is the attraction?

The chance of Immortality through Daemonhood. Plain and simple.

Really, it's all progressive. For example, in normal life there are crazy nutters who engage in all manner of horrible and weird occult practices, but they don't get that way overnight. You're not just hanging out at home having a nice evening with the family one night and then suddenly sacrificing children to the blood god. You work your way up slowly.

40k Example: You kill a bunch of people in the name of the emporer, eventually you just start enjoying killing, then you get really excited about killing, then you see something especially crazy that puts you out of your right mind. Khorne works his way in slowly through all of this and eventually you're all "Blood for the Blood god woohoo!"
I.E. Fire warrior, but replace Emporer with Tau'va.

It's a gradual thing, that basically starts with getting too much enjoyment from doing bad stuff.

Note: I have no idea why anyone would serve Nurgle... ever. There is just no good reason.

Because there scared of Plagues and all that stuff. Most just want power.

Isn't Immortality enough?

why not?

Stravo wrote:why someone in their right mind,

Most people who fall to chaos aren't.

Fulgrim had gone bipolar through daemon infestation and his inferiority complex.

Horus was on death's door.

The Night Haunter was demented to start with.

Magnus thought he was super duper smart enough to outwit the Gods.

And then you have all the normal reasons, like hatred, thirst for power, a desire to see all mortal life thrown before you in subservience...

There are several reasons why Chaos holds such sway over the minds of mortals:

1st: The true followers of the Archtraitor Horus believe that the false-Emperor will lead humanity to its destruction, and that only united under the banner of Chaos can humanity ever hope to defeat the tenacious Greenskins, implacable Necrons, and the endless hordes of Tyranids.

2nd: Not every Chaos champion loses full control. Powerful individuals such as Abaddon the Despoiler are able to keep themselves free from the lure of any specific Chaos god. True, most followers of Chaos are nothing but mindless slaves, however some (including many renegade Astartes) have essentially become disillusioned with the Imperium, and believe that the only thing worth fighting for is personal power, which the Chaos gods are willing to grant in the form of Daemonhood and other blessings. Of course, to fail is to doom yourself forever, but Chaos is really the fast-track to dominance over puny mortals.

3rd: The whispers of Chaos are subtle. While many of the most powerful champions are able to survive as more than just mindless worshippers, there is no doubt that they lose their entire sense of morality. This is probably the most dangerous thing about Chaos. Many don't realize (see: Soul Drinkers; Inquisitor Quixos) that they are becoming corrupted. It's really an issue of change over time - pushed along by Chaos - which eventually leads to an individual no longer finding things "wrong," such as murder, genocide, etc.

4th: Chaos has a great dental plan. Especially Nurgle.

Svane Vulfbad wrote:I murdered thousands for the Emperor and he gave me nothing except his damning silence. Now his lapdogs yap for every life I take, while the gods promise me the galaxy.

Fabius Bile wrote:If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, he will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing misery and death to billions, his name will echo through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes. Infamy is always more preferable to ignominy.

Kulvain Hestarius wrote:In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.

Ferrus Ironclaw wrote:We fight the long war, not through vain notions of duty and honour, but through a far purer purpose: hatred. At the height of our glory we were betrayed and cast out by our kin. Guilliman, Dorn, Sanguinius - these are names I curse. Horus, Perturabo, Angron - these are names I revere, names I would follow to the very end. It is this hatred that has sustained me through the long millennia. I tend it with bitterness. I nurture it with the deaths of my former brothers. For I know that when the end is upon us and Horus is returned, then the false emperor shall be cast down from his sepulchral Golden Throne, and we shall take our rightful place at the side of Horus, the true Emperor of Mankind.

Gauwe Psgas wrote:It is the fate of the weak to die unknown, and the destiny of the strong to rule for eternity. Give me glory, or give me death!

Diuman Cilious wrote:What the thick-headed fools with their broken corpse of an Emperor fail to understand is that not only can they never defeat us, but they can not hide or flee or shield themselves from the triumph of Chaos. They are finite and we are unbound, undivided. They must not err, or they fall to heresy. All who fall join our cause. Every Imperial fool who dares to open his eyes is a willing recruit. They strive merely to hold back our fury and might, and it consumes them. Thus you can see Chaos is inevitable. We lurk not only beyond their grasp and at their gates; we lurk within the darkness of their souls, on the tip of their tongues, in their tortured dreams. We are them, but freed from the shackles of ignorance. We are them, grown strong… evolved. We are them, but so much more!

Knrad Curze wrote:Your presence does not surprise me Assassin. I have known of you since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Kharn the Betrayer wrote:Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn! Kill! Maim! Burn!

Straight from the Codex (at least most of it is)

Let the followers of Chaos speak, if you want to understand them.

I'm in it for the booze and the girls. In that order.

It has to be that order, as anyone who's seen the girls knows.

Like the great storm of the Horus Heresy, the forces of the True Gods will descend upon the Emperor's minions. The stars will tremble at their passage and the mighty armadas of the Warmaster Abaddon will bring annihilation to a hundred worlds. Know this, for these things will come to pass.
+++ Constanze the Prophetess, burned as a Heretic 687.M38 +++

The strong are strongest alone.
+++ Lufgt Huron, The Tyrant of Badab +++

Don't blame me for what I’ve done. I watched my wife and daughters die before me. It was death or embracing Chaos, and I knew that through Chaos, I might live. Live! It is life that matters and what I have learned is that Chaos IS life, for life is change and destruction and new forms, new mutations ever manifesting. We clung to the Emperor, a dying effigy, because He was all we knew. We feared life. We feared our own potential strength. The Imperium is dying. A slow death, but it’s dying. I did what I had to, that’s all. I opened my eyes and saw what a fool all of us were, bowing to a half-dead failure slumped on a throne. Haha! The blasphemy still sends shivers down my spine. It is the freshness of life. I am given to Chaos now. Now I truly live!
+++ Dawn of War:Soulstorm +++

Cast down the idols! Destroy the temples! Slay the priests! Show these fools that they worship nothing more than a rotting corpse!
+++Dark Apostle Harzhan of the Word Bearers+++

Stravo wrote:Yes, I realize the argument that they would be trading one master for another, but from my POV life under the Emperor (pre-Golden Throne) was nowhere near as bad as random mutation and losing your mind in devotion to some alien god.

It's not one master for another, though. The Emperor offers only the opportunity to never do anything violent, consequential, or progressive, in your entire life, if you're lucky (although you might be "volunteered" into the guard). In return, the Emperor gets to regulate everything you do: what you eat, when you work, how you think, and who you love. Chaos is by definition unregulated. You're not you're own boss, but you get the illusion of freedom, because for most chaos gods, do what thou whilt sort of is the whole of the law. As long as you indulge yourself, your God is pleased and grants you power. That's what the reasoning is, anyway. It relies on the idea that nobody can actually be free, and that therefore only by finding the right master can you gain mastery over others, which is mistaken for freedom. As far as mutation is concerned, would you be willing to have a massive, ugly mole on your face if in return you'd be able to fly? How about an extra eye on your forehead that looks really weird but can shoot lightning or compel others to do your will. Or, if you follow Slaanesh, what about the power to look like what ever you want, changing as often as you want? Upturned nose? Purple hair? Extra eyes or other things? Changing yourself in these ways is the ultimate assertion of personal autonomy and rejection of societal standards. Now, for the sane human being, utter rejection from your society is such assured destruction that they wouldn't make these trades, but the followers of chaos are anything but sane.

Plus, chaos really doesn't advertise the mutations and insanity. Only once they have you do bad things start happening, like starting drugs.

Samael is spot on! Brilliantly put!

Along the lines of what's already been said I think generally you're lured in by motivations born of good intentions, and then gradually the persuit of the means becomes the end in itself.


"I will kill for The Emperor!"
...
"Killing is what allows me to serve The Emperor!"
...
"I have to get better at killing no matter what!"
...
"Killing is everything!"
...
"Blood for the blood god!"

They have an awesome retirement plan, and their dental coverage is to die for.

You get to wear more skulls on your armour, therefore increasing your grimdarkitude.

I like the drug analogy. You know about the good stuff. You see people experimenting and it doesn't kill them. You're bitter with the "inquisition" of your parents and such who will allow no deviation. You scorn the hypocrisy of those who say its wrong and have done it themselves. Eventually, it doesn't matter how you convinced yourself into it. All that matters is the high.

That works in so many ways^

Yes, imagine if drugs could makes you as powerful as they make you feel.

SilverMK2 wrote:You get to wear more skulls on your armour, therefore increasing your grimdarkitude.

lol

That was indeed funny but please don't post spam. Thanks! ~Manchu

The one thing no one is mentioned, is that most new followers have no idea what they are in for..

And that most followers are also in pretty dire straights generally.

Disregard...

That's come up.

For those saying they don't understand why anyone would consider Nurgle (after all, at least the others give you something neat, be it killing, pleasure, or knowledge), consider that most of Nurgle's followers begin down the path when on the very brink of death. Imagine, a brutal plague has swept through your home, killing vast numbers of people. The doctors have no cure for it, and the death itself is amazingly agonizing. The lucky ones go after a few days of the worst pain imaginable as their bodies slowly eat themselves, their internal organs liquifying inside them. The unlucky ones take weeks.

No known cure exists. Your prayers to the Emeperor to save you from this agony fall on deaf ears. And eventually, as all hope goes out of you, you cry out to any power that will listen. And one does, one who offers to spare you this torture and make it so you need never fear such things again. All it asks is that you serve it in return.


That's essentially what happened to the Death Guard, and why they became the plague marines. Nurgle seem a bit more viable now?

ya, usually its one of those things "that seemed like a good idea at the time"

Have you ever been a teenager? How many stupid, self-destructive things did you and your friends do then? It doesn't even need to seem like a good idea at the time; it just has to be forbidden, which is exactly what Chaos is.

And once you've started down the road, you have to know perfectly well that turning back will cause both Chaos and the Imperium to want to take you out, because neither will want you alive if you're a former Chaos cultist.
[Edited for bad grammar.]

DaveL wrote:Have you ever been a teenager? How many stupid, self-destructive things did you and your friends do then? It doesn't even need to seem like a good idea at the time; it just has to be forbidden, which is exactly what Chaos is.

And once you've started down the road, you have to know perfectly well that turning back will cause both Chaos and the Imperium to want to take you out, because neither will want you alive if you're a former Chaos cultist.
[Edited for bad grammar.]

and next thing you know tentacles are growing out of your head.