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The discussion of what would tempt good Imperials into the arms of Chaos is heresy. These names should not be spoken, nor crimes remembered. One should forget the crimes of the heretic, and embrace the Emperor's light.

By the Authority of the Immortal God-Emperor of Mankind, I hereby submit this thread to:

I'd join chaos, cuz it's fun!

Now seriously, I'd go for Khorne or Slaanesh.

Out of the 4, I believe that these two are the easiest to fall into. Khorne because of killing, and Slaanesh because, well... who wouldn't want to have fun?

I think the main drive in joining chaos, is power. You have little to no power in the Imperium, you must do as you're told and basically act as a pawn. Though you could reach a seat of power through sheer determination, luck, and genetics (blank, pariah, psyker, uber soldier material), it's a lot easier just to worship chaos, then POOF! super powers!

When you're stuck at home bored doing your homework and someone asks if you want to play a game sometimes you might listen and go play the game even though you know it's a bad idea

When you're sick of school and its a nice day and someone suggests it might be fun to skip school and hang out sometime you might do it.

When you're at a party and someone is passing round something you know you shouldn't take but they keep telling you it'll be ok sometimes you might go for it.

When all you get praised / advanced for is making war, the whispers of someone saying "I can make you a better killer, I can make you a god of war like HE is." becomes appealing.

When everything around you is war and darkness and someone whispers "Hey... want to party? I can show you a good time." someone will listen for the variety

When you're a simple mook taking orders all the time and someone whispers "I can change this, I can make it so you are giving the order" someone will listen

When you're ill or suffering and someone whispers (Gurgles??) in your ear that they can make it not hurt any more then people will listen.


It's all peer pressure, it's all things that sound like a good idea at the time. We've all done things we know we shouldn't have done because it sounded like a good idea at the time. It's a thousand tiny steps to damnation. Its the chance at immortality, the chance at power, the promise of no more pain or suffering.

In my opinion they are blinded by the power that they can recieve, the immediate changes to their physiques and minds and.. You get the idea. They feel powerful and that the Chaos Gods are actually WITH them.

Because:

Change rules all.

^Pfft,

All things die...better jump into the Nurgle bandwagon Grandfather Nurgle.

Unless you're really vain and don't want to look like a blistered pile of poop.

I forgot to add this sentence yesterday: continuation of where I left off- ...Chaos Gods are actually WITH them, unlike in the case of the Emperor. You almost never feel the Emperor as a normal person. You go 'The Emperor protects' but you don't see it when you get rended apart by a Chaos Dread or a Carnifex.

Especially in the case of Nurgle greater daemons, as they are actually parts of him....

But the greater daemons don't have a choice to follow Chaos. They're practically born into it, no?

Another reason that I don't think has been mentioned is that the Imperium is very oppressive. There are justifiable reasons for this, and it is heresy to suggest otherwise, but it's only natural that there will be those who strain against the heavy yoke of their masters. People often view the Planetary Governors as corrupt and unjust, and being represntatives of the Imperium it quickly becomes a struggle against the Imperium. Normaly rebellions such as these are put down quickly, due to their isolated nature, but the alternative of such rebellions is that they turn to chaos (or turn out to be orchestrated by it all along) and find themselves an ally that can help them struggle against the injustice and iron fist of the Imperium. Such rebels are mainly misguided and easily turn to chaos on their own, or are overthrown and supplanted by those who always had ulterior motives. All too often a run-of-the-mill rebellion escalates into a chaos insurrection.

Ulthwé Shadowseer wrote:But the greater daemons don't have a choice to follow Chaos. They're practically born into it, no?

Essentiallly they are an Avatar (in varying strengths) of whatever God they serve. Practically an extension of themselves. Only Greater Deamon I know that ever turned against their master would be Skarbrand (and being Khornate that's pretty understandable).

I've read Flesh and Iron. I pity the Riverine. The old dude is pretty quack. But they're Ecclesiarchy, nothing less can be expected.

-power
-great dental plan
-free work cover
-free email
-slaves

the list goes on & on

On the subject of mutations:

Generally, mutations aren't just handed out randomly for joining. They are seen as a gift from the Gods (literally) by the people who receive them, as it indicates that they have attracted the attentions of their deity and are being rewarded for it. Admittedly, the Chaos Gods seem to have some trouble defining what constitutes a reward (Nurgle, for example, might decide that having all of your toes fall of would be dead useful) but for the most part, the mutation tends to have some benefit; talons are great for rending your enemies and opening cans of food, a third eye that can prophecy the future is always handy and armoured skin is generally pretty neat if you have jealous rivals.

Ever hear of Sigvald the Magnificent?

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:On the subject of mutations:

Generally, mutations aren't just handed out randomly for joining. They are seen as a gift from the Gods (literally) by the people who receive them, as it indicates that they have attracted the attentions of their deity and are being rewarded for it. Admittedly, the Chaos Gods seem to have some trouble defining what constitutes a reward (Nurgle, for example, might decide that having all of your toes fall of would be dead useful) but for the most part, the mutation tends to have some benefit; talons are great for rending your enemies and opening cans of food, a third eye that can prophecy the future is always handy and armoured skin is generally pretty neat if you have jealous rivals.

Most of the lesser Chaos-worshippers do have a little bit of mutations, one way or another. What you say is true, though. How does losing your toes constitute a reward?

And to undivided: Nope. Who's that?

I know it's not 40k, but Sigvald is a follower of Chaos. Slaanesh, to be exact. I'm just giving him as an example of a Chaos "Lord" who doesn't have any mutations of any kind.

Want sources? Only if you can read french. It's on Lexicanum if you'd like to try to read, or in my case, google translate it .

Also, look at Abaddon. Doesn't he have "nice" body as compared to other Chaos Lords?

Don't those that worship the Undivided (No pun intended) get less obvious mutations? I mean they can't specifically be blessed with knowledge, decay, pleasure and hatred for everything together, right? But I do get your point.

And I googled Sigvald, read the excerpt about him on the GW site. I'm not sure about non-40k things but how did Slaanesh appear (I know it's besides the point but I'm curious) and yes, I understand. Perhaps the blessings that they have are not physical mutations?

Sigvald the Magnificent is a character in WHFB, the Gods are there too, and in fact, at one point it was canon that the WHFB planet was in the 40k-verse.

Not really things like pleasure, decay, knowledge, and hatred. These things you mentioned are things that feed the Gods, well, at least hatred and decay do. Blessings other than mutation would be like, marital prowess, resiliency to pain, greater initiative in combat , and cunning or the ability to scheme.

I meant things related to that, like how the gods are related to those aspects. Yes, perhaps those blessings are what Abaddon and Sigvald have, instead of mutation?

Maenus_Rajhana wrote:That's essentially what happened to the Death Guard, and why they became the plague marines. Nurgle seem a bit more viable now?

But aren't you walking around in constant agony from the diseases raging within you or does Papa Nurgle shield you from that? If you are plague ridden but feel no pain against the diseases then I would say it's a little more viable. Then again if you were more afraid of death than of pain from sickness then it might make sense as well.

Nope, Nurgle takes away all pain, all exhaustion, basically he makes you feel 100% healthy and happy.

Mr Nobody wrote:Nope, Nurgle takes away all pain, all exhaustion, basically he makes you feel 100% healthy and happy.

Even when your body is infested with every disease known to man? And then some?

Wow, that's not a bad tradeoff

Mr Nobody wrote:Nope, Nurgle takes away all pain, all exhaustion, basically he makes you feel 100% healthy and happy.

Woah. I never knew that. I've always thought Nurgle followers were in constant pain. It's pretty useful for people who go around spreading the worst diseases and viruses in the 40k universe,

My personal favourite...

Kargos Bloodspitter wrote:Though the gates that stand between the mortal world and the immortal Realm of Chaos are now closed to me, still I would rather die having glimpsed eternity than never to have stirred from the cold furrow of mortal life. I embrace death without regret as I have embraced life without fear.

Simply because it is of human nature to choose the easiest way to power. Chaos can grant you that. Can the Emperor?

undivided wrote:I know it's not 40k, but Sigvald is a follower of Chaos. Slaanesh, to be exact. I'm just giving him as an example of a Chaos "Lord" who doesn't have any mutations of any kind

Well, technically he has all the mutations of any other chaos lord in fantasy, i.e. enhanced strength and toughness, with considerably better reflexes.
But yeah, I see your point. I suppose mutations can be subtle too, if the recipient of the God's favour is lucky.

The answer comes directly from every 40K novel.

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable."

At the core of every human is the desire for freedom, and oppression only increases this. The subtle whispers of Chaos for many would seem to be the only escape from their misery. It is only when it is too late to turn back that the horror of the path they have started down is revealed and by that time their minds are usually so twisted that they embrace their fate with wild abandon.

The one thing no one is mentioned, is that most new followers have no idea what they are in for..

And that most followers are also in pretty dire straights generally.

This.

The "Welcome to Chaos!" pamphlet doesn't specifically advertise stuff like extra eyes and tentacles. Then again, if you're -really- into tentacles, the pamphlet distributor would probably be like "oh, yeah, we totally have tentacles too," provided, of course, he's aware of the tentacles himself.

Some of the reoccurring themes for falls from grace in this universe are hubris, and a sort of 'road to hell paved with good intentions,' deal. Also, bear in mind, the average imperial citizen probably doesn't know anything about Chaos other than 'they're the bad guys traitor dudes, right?' Ignorance of the dangers (especially in the time of the Heresy when even the Emperor was just beginning to realize what he'd gotten himself into,) involved in getting into bed with these guys (literally in the case of Slaanesh,) heck, even ignorance of what Chaos actually -is- certainly plays a roll.

With Magnus and Fulgrim you even get a nice "OMG WTF DID I JUST DO?" moment. Granted, both of them have royally screwed themselves by then.

It is certainly not a rule, but most of things bear mark of consequence and can be generalised. You really must not go far away for an answer. Drugs were pretty decent comparison, but not so much accurate.

Better question is why you would not. People like to be remarked and rewarded for their work. It is not a mystery that we are very sensitive to injustice and every feel of undervalue hardly erode our mind. Today it is common that you get paid for your job - and if you work hard reward will be appropriate. But what does actually Empire offer you? Reward, or better a gift of your existence? You can hardly judge anyone who, no matter how hard he tries, does not find this appropriate.

But the greatest gift Chaos can give you is affection for the feeling which feeds your god. I have always imagined that blood serves not like the drug, but like the catalyst for the berserker. It is something what "turns" him on, something which he desires but thirst for more, more and more in the moment when he finally gets it. I cant imagine berserker jumping around all day long without combat shouting blood for the blood god.

I imagine it goes on like this:
...berserker closes in to meet his first foe..."Die loyalist scum serving the false emperor, I will tear your shoulders and the...yes blood, blood, BLOOD, DIE, for CHAOS, for TERROR, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" ...jumps on the next victim...

Mentionned mutations are rewards from the gods, your payment, proof that the gods care. They represent what your god embodies, what you wish to achieve. What do you care that you got tentacles when you worship Tzeentch? He is lord of change, you are pleased. What do you care that your body is rotting dump? You worship Nurgle, you dont feel it - why should you mind? Spread the gift of Nurgle further...its like playing touchlast, except for that you never loose "it" .

As for worship of Nurgle...He uses another strong human emotion against them - fear of dying, nut just from plague, fear off death like it is. I suppose if someone is not afraid to die, he cant understand this...

In conclussion if you dont want to feel like feudal thrall and really want to own worlds and other worldy possesions, want to be rewarded for job done and punished for your failure, does not want to be stoic piece of walking stone and rather choose to revel in emotions - or just if you want to give your life a simple purpose of aggresive capitalism go on, join chaos. Good masters can teach a slave to enjoy the beating.

The Imperium represents the ultimate repression of freedom. You must worship the Emperor. You must obey the law. You cannot decide your own fate. Free thinking and innovation are not only forbidden, but will result in your painful execution as a heretic. You are not important, you are disposable, you are nothing but an indistinguishable mote amongst trillions.

Chaos is ultimate freedom. The eight-pointed star represents movement in all directions. The Chaos Gods are facets of all emotion taken to the greatest extremes. Everything is unbound. Societal and social norms, physical laws, even your own biology - you do not obey any of these things. You can create any work of art, take any form, persue any fantasy, indulge any desire.

As for Chaos being evil - how many of you would continue to be good people, to follow the laws and morals of society, if you had no need for food or protection? If you didn't need other humans for companionship and support? Chaos doesn't turn people evil, it makes them independent.