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GW Updated some of the FAQs

Well skaven players, it's been fun:

Main rulebook FAQ:

Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership. What is your unmodified leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.

Bugger...
I don't know much but i do know that can't be good...

OUCH is all I can say to that.

Can someone give me an example of a situation where this might apply?

It doesn't affect the break tests or anything like that does it?

It's a giant nerf to steadfast, which I know small elite armies will welcome but it means skaven took a hit. When we lose combat by one or two points now, our LD actually goes way down.

Imagine a group of slaves with +3 ranks, near a Grey Seer. Normally, their LD is 10 (7 for the GS, +3 for ranks). If they lose combat by 5 lets say, they'd normally test on Ld 5. But because they are steadfast, they will now test on Ld 2.

It basically makes our Strength in Numbers rule meaningless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:Can someone give me an example of a situation where this might apply?

It doesn't affect the break tests or anything like that does it?

See below/above. The Steadfast rule says to use your unmodified Leadership. Skaven are designed around leadership modifiers.

Edit- see below, nevermind!

streamdragon wrote:It's a giant nerf to steadfast, which I know small elite armies will welcome but it means skaven took a hit. When we lose combat by one or two points now, our LD actually goes way down.

Imagine a group of slaves with +3 ranks, near a Grey Seer. Normally, their LD is 10 (7 for the GS, +3 for ranks). If they lose combat by 5 lets say, they'd normally test on Ld 5. But because they are steadfast, they will now test on Ld 2.

It basically makes our Strength in Numbers rule meaningless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:Can someone give me an example of a situation where this might apply?

It doesn't affect the break tests or anything like that does it?

See below/above. The Steadfast rule says to use your unmodified Leadership. Skaven are designed around leadership modifiers.

But the steadfast rule got updated in the latest FAQ as well:

Page 60 – Steadfast
Change “[...]can use its unmodified Leadership[...]” to
“[...]doesn’t apply the difference in combat result scores[...]”.
Change both references to “[...] any enemy units [...]” to “[...]
all enemy units [...]”.

Ah! That fixes it then. False alarm

I have to confess I would've been happy with skaven slaves not being so uber... but changing this would've undone a lot of the changes to 8th edition, and I don't want to see that.

I don't have my book, or the previous FAQ to confirm this.

However, it seems on another site (likes Blue) the general talk is Steadfast itself changed, so that is no longer the case, and Skaven should operate as normal?

Not 100% mind, and sadly can't check myself.


edit -

'd

Whew. The FAQ I was looking at didn't have that change in magenta, so I skipped right past it


That makes me feel a bit better then.

The big hit for it is Death snipe spells will now blast Skaven characters, my LD 9 or 10 against your 7 or 6.

I'd think that would have always worked that way. Strength in Numbers is for making Leadership tests, but Spirit Leech isn't a Leadership test, it's just d6+Ld.

streamdragon wrote:Whew. The FAQ I was looking at didn't have that change in magenta, so I skipped right past it

No need to feel blind that was part of the last update.

Also of note is the reversal of the fencer's blades + helm of command combo (WS10 now counts out of combat).

(Though I'm not very happy with the semantic freedom of the answer to that question. So if sword of might (in all of the pre-beasts books) says "+1 Strength", we are to read it as "+1 Strength [in combat only]"? Yet fencer's blades says "The bearer has WS10", overriding the [in combat only] auto-clause? Weak ... Admittedly as far as games go I'm more concerned with WS10 helming being back then my skaven characters not getting +1S vs dwellers and stuff.)

- Salvage

Another nerf (or maybe I just wasn't reading the rule properly) was removing the triple march move from Banner of Verminous Scurrying. Now it's only 15" as opposed to 30". A poxy extra 5" of movement for an average cost of 3.5 skaven seems a bit rubbish. I guess it's costs only 10 points for a reason.

Agreed. Didn't follow their train of thought, and anticipate not knowing in which category many items fall.

Boss_Salvage / RZ, I'm not sure what you guys are referring to, can you clarify?

Basically, some items boost stats in combat only vs. all the time, but it's hard to tell which items fit in which category?

Flashman wrote:Another nerf (or maybe I just wasn't reading the rule properly) was removing the triple march move from Banner of Verminous Scurrying. Now it's only 15" as opposed to 30". A poxy extra 5" of movement for an average cost of 3.5 skaven seems a bit rubbish. I guess it's costs only 10 points for a reason.

I didn't realize anyone was reading that as a 30" march move. That's crazy town!

@RiTides: The FAQs used to say that stat bonuses from magic weapons did not apply outside of when you were using them in combat (or something like that). So a sword that gave you initiative 10 didn't help against Pit of Shades. Now the entry says the following:

Q: When does a weapon that gives a bonus to a characteristic give
that bonus?(p4)
A: Most weapons, including magic weapons, state when the
bonus is given. For example, a model with the Fencer’s
Blades will always have Weapon Skill 10 whilst a model with
a great weapon will only have +2 Strength when striking an
enemy in close combat. When a weapon does not say when
the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when
striking, or being struck, in close combat.

What's weird is that Fencer's blades doesn't have anything specific about when it applies. But they give it as an example of something that gives a "persistent" effect. If that example wasn't in there, I feel like things would be fairly clear. I did take a look through some of the BRB magic weapons, and most of them do specify that their bonus applies only to close combat attacks. The problem will come with older books I think.

Red_Zeke wrote:

Flashman wrote:Another nerf (or maybe I just wasn't reading the rule properly) was removing the triple march move from Banner of Verminous Scurrying. Now it's only 15" as opposed to 30". A poxy extra 5" of movement for an average cost of 3.5 skaven seems a bit rubbish. I guess it's costs only 10 points for a reason.

I didn't realize anyone was reading that as a 30" march move. That's crazy town!

Yes, I suppose it did seem a bit over generous

Wow, I can see the problem with that, RZ... maybe they meant to revamp the wording of Fencer's Blades and forgot?

Still, ignoring the example (hah) it's fairly clear... so still no high initiative/strength for models with weapons that don't specify when their characteristic applies. Not much of a "clarification", though!

Random Condescending FAQ Writer wrote:
Q: What happens when there is a conflict between two magic items
or special rules? (p2)
A: Use ‘The Most Important Rule’

For the love of Christ

Edited for them finally pulling that BS explanation off the site, it seems.

So, to recap -

Skaven Slaves with a Grey Seer nearby still take break tests at Ld 10 if they are steadfast (which is still having more ranks than the other guy, right? They didn't change that too, did they?) This is because Steadfast now means the difference in combat resolution doesn't affect their Ld, not that they use thier unmodified Ld. Otherwise they'd be testing at Ld 5. Heh.

Did I get it correct?

You did.

Except Skaven Slaves would be testing at Ld 2, not 5.

Really, ouch. Good thing they dodged that.

Edit: All this ruling seems to change is the lizardmen blade of realities + doom and darkness trick, and any other stuff that is simillar.

Hydras are now more vulverable to pit of shades, etc...Handlers don't count for characteristic tests.

Does stubborn use the term 'unmodified leadership' still?

skyth wrote:Hydras are now more vulverable to pit of shades, etc...Handlers don't count for characteristic tests.

They only ever counted for LD and other unit based tests.

skyth wrote:Does stubborn use the term 'unmodified leadership' still?

No, it was FAQ-ed.

HoverBoy wrote:

skyth wrote:Hydras are now more vulverable to pit of shades, etc...Handlers don't count for characteristic tests.

They only ever counted for LD and other unit based tests.

Actually, any characteristic test taken by a unit was taken on the highest in the unit before. This meant that since the handlers had higher initiative than the hydra, initiative tests were taken on the handler's iniative 5 before the FAQ.

skyth wrote:Does stubborn use the term 'unmodified leadership' still?

No, it was FAQ-ed.

Where? I only saw that Steadfast was FAQ'd. I did not see Stubborn mentioned anywhere. I went looking through the FAQ again after you said it was FAQ'd and didn't see it. It would make sense that they were the same, but looks like GW missed the pooch on this one.

Cuz it was FAQ-ed in the last version so it isn't in magenta.