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'Ello all!

So I'm a brand new player to 40k, or I should say all of miniature gaming. Me and a friend recently procured the Assault on Black Reach starter set. While we are learning the game with our base models with that, I have been speaking to some of the veterans of the game, namely the Ork army, about constructing a fun, effective, (possibly competitive) shooty Ork list. Here is what I have come up with so far - any comments are greatly appreciated. I feel that your comments on my list will also help acclimate me to the more subtler elements of the game as well, so please feel free to weigh in and give reasoning behind your opinions. Now, on to the list:

HQ

Big Mek - 35pts
Kustom Force Field - 50 pts
Bosspole - 5 pts
'Eavy Armor - 5 pts
Cybork Body - 10 pts
Grot Oilers x3 - 15 pts
===================
120 pts

Big Mek - 35pts
Shokk Attack Gun - 60 pts
Bosspole - 5 pts
'Eavy Armor - 5 pts
Cybork Body - 10 pts
Ammo Runt - 3 pts
===================
118 pts


Troops

x3 Squads of Ork Boyz (Shoota) - x20 120pts
2x Big Shootas 10 pts
1x Nob 10 pts
Power Klaw - 25 pts
'Eavy Armor - 5 pts
Bosspole - 5 pts
============================
175 per squad x3 = 525 pts


Elites

Lootas - x15 - 15 pts each = 225 pts
Upgrade 2 Lootas --> Mek free
===========================
225 pts


Burnas - x6 - 15 pts each = 90 pts
Upgrade 3 Burnas --> Mek free
Grot Oilers x3 - 15 pts
------------------------------------------------
105 pts
2x Squads of Killa Kanz - x3 - 35 pts each = 105 pts per squad
Kustom Mega Blasta - 20 pts
Big Shoota x2 - 10 pts
===========================
270 pts


Deff Dread = 75 pts
Dreadnought CC x2 - 30 pts
Grot Rigger - 5 pts
Armour Plate 10
===========================
125 pts


===============================
===============================
Grand Total = 1488

Suggest away! Thanks!

I would suggest splitting the 15 lootas into 2 squads of 7 or one of 7 and one of 8. Its better for shot output (more average and damaging shooting.

And I just want to say that a squad of 6 burnas is soft. Very, very soft. Just sayin without a transport (looted wagon) they will be hardpressed to survive and kill things.

Hope this helped!

Bwolf999 wrote:I would suggest splitting the 15 lootas into 2 squads of 7 or one of 7 and one of 8. Its better for shot output (more average and damaging shooting.

And I just want to say that a squad of 6 burnas is soft. Very, very soft. Just sayin without a transport (looted wagon) they will be hardpressed to survive and kill things.

Hope this helped!

The squad of 6 burnas is actually a squad of 3 burnas and 3 meks....also I think I was trying to convey that they are in the same squad as the killa kanz. Is that overkill or unnecessary?

I've played a similar shooty ork list and it can be a fun list to play.

I think you should drop the heavy armor on your nobs as they can't be singled out in the squad so it won't serve a real purpose.

Split your lootas into 3 squads of 5, and leave the meks at home. They don't do anything for the squad.

I wouldn't take burnas without a trukk or wagon for them to move around in, also don't take mek upgrades for them either.

Kanz are great. I wouldn't mix the weapons within the squads as they only shoot at a single target. You have big shoots which are anti-infantry mixed with KMB which are anti-tank or TEQ. Try 3 KMB or rokkit for anti-tank, or 3 grotzookas for anti-infantry.

Your deff dread is here as a counter assault unit. Give it an extra CC weapon and a skorcha.

I would leave a lot of the gear off of your Big Meks also. The KFF mek should be bare or maybe given a burna. The reason I choose a burna over a powerclaw is because of the Mek's decent Initiative value. He can use a burna as a power weapon in CC if need be. They also probably don't need the armor or cybork bodies, or the oilers.

If you drop some of those unneeded pieces of gear you should have the points to upgrade the dread and kanz.

Let's talk about your notation. It's against board policy to list the point cost of EVERY model and EVERY upgrade.

"HQ - Big Mek - KFF, BP, HA, CB, Oiler x3 - 120" - This is more appropriate.

You've got a lot of unnecessary upgrades. You don't need Heavy Armor -and- a Cybork Body. Really, if your Mek is in a small enough group that it's frequently allocating wounds to itself, that's bad. In general, I run my Big Mek with a KFF and nothing else, a bosspole if he's in a group that doesn't come standard with one (Boyz, whatever).

The Shokk Attack Gun is a horrible gun. With a BS of 2 it frequently scatters too far, with a random STR it doesn't consistently do damage, and you run a 1/36 chance of blowing yourself and everything around you up.

Repeat after me: "Boyz come in three flavors; 12 Sluggas in a Trukk, 30 Shootas on foot, 20 Shootas in a Battlewagon. Always take a Nob w/PK and Bosspole, nothing else." Useless gun upgrades on Orks that can't hit, useless armor on a model that should never take saves, not enough bros.

Do not upgrade Lootas to Meks. Meks have guns that will kill themselves, and really, Deffgunz are as good as it gets. Meks sort of require mobility to be of any kind of use, and Lootas don't move.

You might consider splitting your Lootas up so that they can (if they wanted to) fire on multiple targets. Granted, you want to focus your fire on one target at a time, but if you take out your target, you're going to want fire at something else.

Similarly, do not upgrade Burnas to Meks. Burnas are 15 point, 3 swing WS 4 S 4 power weapons; they're absolutely insane for their point cost (if a little fragile for offense) and Meks don't really do much other than miss and kill themselves (keep in mind they hit themselves only half as often as they hit their target!). Additionally, Burnas really need some kind of protection to make it across the field; a Battlewagon is a nice option (especially since with infinite fire points you can fire one template out and hit that many targets * Burnas).

Killa Kans seem pretty solid, but if you follow my advice so far, you're short some KMBs. Killa Kans are a fantastic KMB delivery system with a BS 3, and immunity to Gets Hot!. I'd consider upgrading all of them to KMBs, although most people fight viciously against the KMB in favor of the Rokkit Launcha, ignoring all my strong reasons for the KMB.

Deff Dreads are pretty bad IMO. I could suggest (for about the same point value) a Battlewagon with a single Big Shoota, RPJ, and Deff Rolla. You can cram your Burnas into it.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Let's talk about your notation. It's against board policy to list the point cost of EVERY model and EVERY upgrade.

"HQ - Big Mek - KFF, BP, HA, CB, Oiler x3 - 120" - This is more appropriate.

Ah, my mistake. I just transcribed it from a few pieces of scratch paper I used which included as much detail as I could. Noted the preferred board notation

You've got a lot of unnecessary upgrades. You don't need Heavy Armor -and- a Cybork Body. Really, if your Mek is in a small enough group that it's frequently allocating wounds to itself, that's bad. In general, I run my Big Mek with a KFF and nothing else, a bosspole if he's in a group that doesn't come standard with one (Boyz, whatever).

The Shokk Attack Gun is a horrible gun. With a BS of 2 it frequently scatters too far, with a random STR it doesn't consistently do damage, and you run a 1/36 chance of blowing yourself and everything around you up.

Well, I believe when we discussed the army, he suggested I run the Big Meks between my units to provide as many other close, support oriented/shooty units around it to gain the KFF. I am not beyond the possibility of having received bad advice though.

Repeat after me: "Boyz come in three flavors; 12 Sluggas in a Trukk, 30 Shootas on foot, 20 Shootas in a Battlewagon. Always take a Nob w/PK and Bosspole, nothing else." Useless gun upgrades on Orks that can't hit, useless armor on a model that should never take saves, not enough bros.

Boz come in three flavors; 12 sluggas in a trukk, 30 shootas on foot, 20 shootas in a Battlewagon. Always take a Nob w/ PK and Bosspole, nothing else! - I appreciate the advice! Now...in my army, I have about....60 boyz...3 Nobs if I'm not mistaken... Is that enough? How would I allocate them say on the ground and in the battlewagon? Below, I ask whether 6 Burnas + 14 Shootas is the ideal occupancy of one of those hogs.

Do not upgrade Lootas to Meks. Meks have guns that will kill themselves, and really, Deffgunz are as good as it gets. Meks sort of require mobility to be of any kind of use, and Lootas don't move.

*noted*

You might consider splitting your Lootas up so that they can (if they wanted to) fire on multiple targets. Granted, you want to focus your fire on one target at a time, but if you take out your target, you're going to want fire at something else.

2 squads of 8? Would that suffice?

Similarly, do not upgrade Burnas to Meks. Burnas are 15 point, 3 swing WS 4 S 4 power weapons; they're absolutely insane for their point cost (if a little fragile for offense) and Meks don't really do much other than miss and kill themselves (keep in mind they hit themselves only half as often as they hit their target!). Additionally, Burnas really need some kind of protection to make it across the field; a Battlewagon is a nice option (especially since with infinite fire points you can fire one template out and hit that many targets * Burnas).

Ah, okay I see what you mean. Initially, the idea was the keep the Burnas in a squad right behind the Kans.

Killa Kans seem pretty solid, but if you follow my advice so far, you're short some KMBs. Killa Kans are a fantastic KMB delivery system with a BS 3, and immunity to Gets Hot!. I'd consider upgrading all of them to KMBs, although most people fight viciously against the KMB in favor of the Rokkit Launcha, ignoring all my strong reasons for the KMB.

So how should these Kans function? They should be providing some sort of cover I'm assuming while they're shooting up the battlefield. Originally, the idea was to keep them in a squad near the Burnas for protection from ground units. How would I utilize them, if you would please impart?

Deff Dreads are pretty bad IMO. I could suggest (for about the same point value) a Battlewagon with a single Big Shoota, RPJ, and Deff Rolla. You can cram your Burnas into it.

Interesting. That might be pretty cool. How would I utilize this badboy - with 14 shootas or so and maybe 6 burnas?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

augustus5 wrote:I've played a similar shooty ork list and it can be a fun list to play.

I think you should drop the heavy armor on your nobs as they can't be singled out in the squad so it won't serve a real purpose.

Split your lootas into 3 squads of 5, and leave the meks at home. They don't do anything for the squad.

I wouldn't take burnas without a trukk or wagon for them to move around in, also don't take mek upgrades for them either.

Kanz are great. I wouldn't mix the weapons within the squads as they only shoot at a single target. You have big shoots which are anti-infantry mixed with KMB which are anti-tank or TEQ. Try 3 KMB or rokkit for anti-tank, or 3 grotzookas for anti-infantry.

Your deff dread is here as a counter assault unit. Give it an extra CC weapon and a skorcha.

I would leave a lot of the gear off of your Big Meks also. The KFF mek should be bare or maybe given a burna. The reason I choose a burna over a powerclaw is because of the Mek's decent Initiative value. He can use a burna as a power weapon in CC if need be. They also probably don't need the armor or cybork bodies, or the oilers.

If you drop some of those unneeded pieces of gear you should have the points to upgrade the dread and kanz.

You have some interesting suggestions here too. I am noting all of these.

Thank you so much for the replies so far!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bwolf999 wrote:I would suggest splitting the 15 lootas into 2 squads of 7 or one of 7 and one of 8. Its better for shot output (more average and damaging shooting.

And I just want to say that a squad of 6 burnas is soft. Very, very soft. Just sayin without a transport (looted wagon) they will be hardpressed to survive and kill things.

Hope this helped!

Very helpful, and most here seem to share your logic as well.

Boz come in three flavors; 12 sluggas in a trukk, 30 shootas on foot, 20 shootas in a Battlewagon. Always take a Nob w/ PK and Bosspole, nothing else! - I appreciate the advice! Now...in my army, I have about....60 boyz...3 Nobs if I'm not mistaken... Is that enough? How would I allocate them say on the ground and in the battlewagon? Below, I ask whether 6 Burnas + 14 Shootas is the ideal occupancy of one of those hogs.

Well, only one unit can fit inside a Battlewagon at a time. You can't put Boyz and Burnas in the same transport. I'd fill out your Burnas and cram them in the wagon.

2 squads of 8? Would that suffice?

The convention is that Lootas should be in units of 5 or 15; small enough that it's an insignificant loss if the unit gets wiped or run off the board, or big enough to take some hits before losing fearless/50% of the unit. I like units of 10, but what works for you works.

So how should these Kans function? They should be providing some sort of cover I'm assuming while they're shooting up the battlefield. Originally, the idea was to keep them in a squad near the Burnas for protection from ground units. How would I utilize them, if you would please impart?

As it turns out, you've somewhat stumbled into a very solid army archetype for Orks, called the Kan Wall. The idea is that you field your Kans in front, close enough to the KFF Meks to get their Obscured 4+ Cover save. In turn, your exposed Boyz standing behind it are now obscured by the Kans in front, and thus also get that 4+ Cover save. So, here's how I would set it up:



That's how I would be on the table, just sort of a huge brick of models, everything supporting everything else.

So, here would be my suggestion on your list:

HQ - KFF Mek - 85
HQ - KFF Mek - 85

Elite - Lootas x7 - 105
Elite - Lootas x7 - 105
Elite - Burnas x15 - 225

Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220
Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220

Heavy - Kans x3, KMBs - 165
Heavy - Kans x3, KMBs - 165
Heavy - Battlewagon, Big Shoota, RPJ, Deffrolla - 120
---
1495

As an alternative, you could drop a KFF Mek, drop one Burna, give the KFF a burna, and put him in the wagon with the Burnas, opens up 85 points for you, drop the RPJ on the Wagon, gives you 90, field two 10 man Lootas squads. Just about the same effectiveness, plus six Deffguns, but you give up a little mobility.

Wow... you sir, get a bow. *BOW*

That list is exactly what I was going for, save for the wagon instead of the deffdread. I think I like this idea much better.

The diagram you drew up is just awesome, and exactly what I had in mind.

A thousand thanks to you and everyone in the thread so far.

Feel free to keep contributing, I'm going to go scrounge up some teef.

Single Battlewagon is fail - where do you think all the melta will be going to get the armour 14? Also means it will move slow along side the Boyz to be in KFF range, or move ahead to get those Burnas into use. Waste of time.

Add more Lootas for ranged fire power. Rest is ok. Though Deffkopters would be nice.

mercer wrote:Single Battlewagon is fail - where do you think all the melta will be going to get the armour 14? Also means it will move slow along side the Boyz to be in KFF range, or move ahead to get those Burnas into use. Waste of time.

Add more Lootas for ranged fire power. Rest is ok. Though Deffkopters would be nice.

What would you suggest in place of it? How would what you suggest fit in with the rest of the army? Were you saying I take the Battlewagon with burnas out entirely and replace that with more lootas? How would I utilize the Deffkoptas? How many? Would I run em with TL Rokkit Launchas and a Buzzsaw maybe? Thanks in advance!

Admittedly, he's not wrong, but I included the Battlewagon simply as the best means of delivering Burnas; there's basically no other way. Additionally, with that configuration, yes, you're moving slowly and creating a pretty big target for yourself, but by the time something is in Melta range, it's close enough to start doing some Deffrolla + Burnas badassery, and remember that you get that 4+ Obscured save from the Burna. A melta still has to be close enough, hit at a 3+, penetrate rolling a 7 on 2d6, pass a 4+ cover save, and roll a 3+ to wreck your wagon, and the chance of that isn't as high as you might think. And a Battlewagon full of Burnas has some potential to be very devastating, or at the very least draw enemy fire and ignore the real threats, six kans, sixty boyz, and 20 deffguns. Your mileage may very, but I do this pretty often, and it's pretty effective.

If you do take out the Burnas and the Battlewagon it opens up something like 340 points for you. You can certainly use some or all of these points to round out those Lootas, but there are some other, interesting options.

Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and a Buzzsaw are totally awesome units (I field them in solitary units; they'll never benefit from Mob Rule, and their 7 Leadership is terrible, the first time they lose a fight, they'll run off the field). You can put them at the edge of your deployment zone, then Scout them 24", then move them 12", fire Rokkits, and assault solitary armor for 3 automatic S7 hits on rear armor (which I only do if I'm going first) or you can set them in reserve and Outflank, hoping to basically do the same thing later in the game.

At that point value you might consider Kommandos as well. Snikrot + Burnas + Kommandos is a relatively inexpensive unit that when available allows you to come on from any table side, assaulting soft squishy guardsmen batteries, or just about anything (remember those Burna Kommandos have power weapons if you don't fire them). They're a pretty dirty trick when it comes down to it.

Lootas in units of 5 or 15 no more no less. If you start making units of 7 or 8 you run into leadership issues once they see any form of attacks. You don't want lootas running off the table if a few get killed. 5 is good because if you lose a few then you aren't wasting a lot of points. 15 is safe because it is a high number and will likely survive longer. 7 to 10 lootas will take casualties and then run away and then you lose 150 pts rather than 75.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Admittedly, he's not wrong, but I included the Battlewagon simply as the best means of delivering Burnas; there's basically no other way. Additionally, with that configuration, yes, you're moving slowly and creating a pretty big target for yourself, but by the time something is in Melta range, it's close enough to start doing some Deffrolla + Burnas badassery, and remember that you get that 4+ Obscured save from the Burna. A melta still has to be close enough, hit at a 3+, penetrate rolling a 7 on 2d6, pass a 4+ cover save, and roll a 3+ to wreck your wagon, and the chance of that isn't as high as you might think. And a Battlewagon full of Burnas has some potential to be very devastating, or at the very least draw enemy fire and ignore the real threats, six kans, sixty boyz, and 20 deffguns. Your mileage may very, but I do this pretty often, and it's pretty effective.

If you do take out the Burnas and the Battlewagon it opens up something like 340 points for you. You can certainly use some or all of these points to round out those Lootas, but there are some other, interesting options.

Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and a Buzzsaw are totally awesome units (I field them in solitary units; they'll never benefit from Mob Rule, and their 7 Leadership is terrible, the first time they lose a fight, they'll run off the field). You can put them at the edge of your deployment zone, then Scout them 24", then move them 12", fire Rokkits, and assault solitary armor for 3 automatic S7 hits on rear armor (which I only do if I'm going first) or you can set them in reserve and Outflank, hoping to basically do the same thing later in the game.

At that point value you might consider Kommandos as well. Snikrot + Burnas + Kommandos is a relatively inexpensive unit that when available allows you to come on from any table side, assaulting soft squishy guardsmen batteries, or just about anything (remember those Burna Kommandos have power weapons if you don't fire them). They're a pretty dirty trick when it comes down to it.

I like the Deffkopta and Snikrot Kommando squad ideas a lot - how many Kommandos would I run total? I know I can fit 2 of them with Burnas, so how many normal ones would suffice? Would I be able to run both the Deffkoptas and the Kommandos with Snikrot with my 340 free points? Because I really like the idea of sneaky orks. I'm thinking that seems like a low amount of deffkoptas allowed given the points....i'm guessing the ideal number is what, 3-5?

340 points is a lot of points. Deffkoptas are 70 points, so you could field two units of one each, giving you the chance to double up on one target if you had to.

This leaves you with 200 points. Snikrot, 2 Burnas, and 7 Kommandos is 200 points. Not bad.

@ frosty hardtop

In terms of your diagram I like it definitely But may I suggest positioning the kanz in front of the boyz. Merely because alll the anti infantry shots that want to kill some boyz are now going through the classic "kan wall" giving you a 4+ cover save for the boyz and a KFF save for the kanz.

just a thought though

HQ - KFF Mek - 85
HQ - KFF Mek - 85

Elite - Lootas x5 - 75
Elite - Lootas x5 - 75
Elite - Kommandos x7, Burna Kommandos x2, Boss Snikrot - 205

Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220
Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220

Fast Attack - Deffkopta - 70
Fast Attack - Deffkopta - 70

Heavy - Kans x3, KMBs - 165
Heavy - Kans x3, KMBs - 165

---
1435


Still a lot of points left over...can't think of anything else to do except add a few more looters to round out...but it seems like the general consensus is that you should run either 5 or 15. What to do...what to do... (Tough part is that it's only 5 points over adding another Deffkopta, which would have been nice). Can the Kommando squad be bigger without wasting points? Maybe throw in a Nob with a PK, BP in there and 2 more Kommandos making it 1495?

Erudog wrote:

mercer wrote:Single Battlewagon is fail - where do you think all the melta will be going to get the armour 14? Also means it will move slow along side the Boyz to be in KFF range, or move ahead to get those Burnas into use. Waste of time.

Add more Lootas for ranged fire power. Rest is ok. Though Deffkopters would be nice.

What would you suggest in place of it? How would what you suggest fit in with the rest of the army? Were you saying I take the Battlewagon with burnas out entirely and replace that with more lootas? How would I utilize the Deffkoptas? How many? Would I run em with TL Rokkit Launchas and a Buzzsaw maybe? Thanks in advance!

Frosty Hardtop wrote:Admittedly, he's not wrong, but I included the Battlewagon simply as the best means of delivering Burnas; there's basically no other way. Additionally, with that configuration, yes, you're moving slowly and creating a pretty big target for yourself

If you do take out the Burnas and the Battlewagon it opens up something like 340 points for you. You can certainly use some or all of these points to round out those Lootas, but there are some other, interesting options.

Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and a Buzzsaw are totally awesome units (I field them in solitary units; they'll never benefit from Mob Rule, and their 7 Leadership is terrible, the first time they lose a fight, they'll run off the field). You can put them at the edge of your deployment zone, then Scout them 24", then move them 12", fire Rokkits, and assault solitary armor for 3 automatic S7 hits on rear armor (which I only do if I'm going first) or you can set them in reserve and Outflank, hoping to basically do the same thing later in the game.

That's why

New list is looking better but Kommandos are pants. Just a gimmick unit which doesn't really do anything. You need more troops for a Kan wall to asborb damage, plus a unit to hold objectives close to your table edge

Mercer is mostly right. Not sure if "pants" are good or bad. I would assume good because pants are quite nice to have it must mean good. British slang is rather...unique. Not that Canadian slang isn't. You would benefit more by dropping the kommandos for another boys unit. But totally up to you. Keep them if you like but I would suggest sticking with rokkits on your kans. Save a few more points there and grab a small unit of grots to hold objectives. I assume your 70 point deffkoptas have saws which are great BTW. As mercer said you need more troops to absorb damage but more importantly you need more kans to protect them. 9 kans is usually the best number at 1500pts

Pants is bad. Pants are bad pants are dirty and gakky lol, and yeah British slag is always on the move, always a nice work coming out every week lol.

I think I'm going to try the Kommandos and Snikrot out anyway...the idea just seems fun to me if nothing else. I think strategically they would come in pretty handy too, taking out advancing forces closing in on my shootas. For 265 points, I think it's a very solid ground unit that has a lot of versatility - I would love to continue to hear naysayers though because I could use all the knowledge I could get. I am also trying to make all the right decisions to support my fun but at the same time have a competitive army with versatility to learn with, since I don't really have much dukkets to be throwing around on stuff I don't need currently to field a decent 1500 point army. Anywho...new list:


HQ - KFF Mek - 85
HQ - KFF Mek - 85

Elite - Lootas x5 - 75
Elite - Lootas x5 - 75
Elite - Kommandos x7, Burna Kommandos x2, Boss Snikrot - 205

Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220
Troops - Shootas x30, Nob w/PK, BP - 220

Fast Attack - Deffkopta - 70
Fast Attack - Deffkopta - 70
Fast Attack - Deffkopta - 70

Heavy - Kans x3, 2 KMBs 1 Rokkit Launcha - 160
Heavy - Kans x3, 2 KMBs 1 Rokkit Launcha - 160

---
1495



The other option I thought of was adding 2 more Kommandos + a Kommando Nob with PK and BP and removing the 3rd Deffkopta, but would the army then be sacrificing too much of its shootiness? I don't mind if that is the case, but I don't want it to be too unfocused, therefore losing its strength in the build. I gave one of the kanz in each squad a Rokkit Launcha, so fielding in total 5 Rokkits as well...again...is that less shooty therefore less effective? While on the subject of kanz...am I really selling my self short by only having 2 squads of 3? Should I have 9 total? What do you all think? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

Erudog wrote:The other option I thought of was adding 2 more Kommandos + a Kommando Nob with PK and BP and removing the 3rd Deffkopta, but would the army then be sacrificing too much of its shootiness? I don't mind if that is the case, but I don't want it to be too unfocused, therefore losing its strength in the build. I gave one of the kanz in each squad a Rokkit Launcha, so fielding in total 5 Rokkits as well...again...is that less shooty therefore less effective? While on the subject of kanz...am I really selling my self short by only having 2 squads of 3? Should I have 9 total? What do you all think? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

Too many Kommandos is unnecessary. Kommandos (if you're not pulling the Snikrot trick) are a nice spot removal that you can throw at a fleshy unit of infantry that's stubbornly holding objectives, or a big infantry gunline (like IG or Tau) that will hit hard and fast and at the very least tie that unit (or even a couple units, with a good multi-assault) up long enough for your main force to make it into threat range. Also, note that you can't take Snikrot AND a Nob in the same unit, and that Kommandos are terribad without Snikrot. The ideal size for me is 5 normal Kommandos, 2 Burnas, and Snikrot.

Also, I'm a little curious on your math. 7 Kommandos, 2 Burnas, and Snikrot should be 200 even, how are you getting 205?

As we've established, Lootas should be in groups of 5 or 15. Instead of two groups of 5, why not up it to one group of 15? That fills the 75 points pretty effectively, I'd think.

On a more serious note, if this game is new to you, and you don't really have much in the way of models (if anything at all) why are you aiming your sights so high at 1500? My first army was the one out of the AoBR book, and that one is 350 points or so. Something that I prattle on about pretty frequently is that this game is not about winning or losing, it's about having fun, and it's about discovery. Right now a Kan Wall seems like a pretty cool idea, but there are a LOT of different ways to play Orks that you probably haven't even begun to imagine. Start small and build your way up; the way I started, I bought literally anything that I thought was interesting at the time, things that I could get for cheap from friends or online, or whatever, and I put it on the table. Two years went by before I started to really understand my playstyle and define my army to what I have now. It seems like new players put far too much planning into it and forget to simply enjoy the game. Either way, plan small. By the time you actually have 1500 points you might find that your dream list has changed a hundred times.

Something to consider:
Drop one of the KFF Meks. One should cover you just fine.
Drop a buzzcopta. That's 155points!
Get another unit of kans with rokkits.
One Mek can cover your two boys units with ease and the more kans you have the more protection they will give your boys. Never mix weapons for kans units have all one thing. You still have 20 or so points to dish out now.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:

Erudog wrote:The other option I thought of was adding 2 more Kommandos + a Kommando Nob with PK and BP and removing the 3rd Deffkopta, but would the army then be sacrificing too much of its shootiness? I don't mind if that is the case, but I don't want it to be too unfocused, therefore losing its strength in the build. I gave one of the kanz in each squad a Rokkit Launcha, so fielding in total 5 Rokkits as well...again...is that less shooty therefore less effective? While on the subject of kanz...am I really selling my self short by only having 2 squads of 3? Should I have 9 total? What do you all think? SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!

Too many Kommandos is unnecessary. Kommandos (if you're not pulling the Snikrot trick) are a nice spot removal that you can throw at a fleshy unit of infantry that's stubbornly holding objectives, or a big infantry gunline (like IG or Tau) that will hit hard and fast and at the very least tie that unit (or even a couple units, with a good multi-assault) up long enough for your main force to make it into threat range. Also, note that you can't take Snikrot AND a Nob in the same unit, and that Kommandos are terribad without Snikrot. The ideal size for me is 5 normal Kommandos, 2 Burnas, and Snikrot.

That's what I thought....I wasn't sure about the Nob + Snikrot but thanks for the clarification. I think you're right, 5 + 2 burnas and Snikrot should be a good enough unit.

Also, I'm a little curious on your math. 7 Kommandos, 2 Burnas, and Snikrot should be 200 even, how are you getting 205?

9 kommandos = 90 points + equip 2 burnas (30) = 120 + 85 = 205

As we've established, Lootas should be in groups of 5 or 15. Instead of two groups of 5, why not up it to one group of 15? That fills the 75 points pretty effectively, I'd think.

Do you think I'm not sacrificing utility by combining my lootas and adding 5 to a single group? Am I not risking just being blasted?

On a more serious note, if this game is new to you, and you don't really have much in the way of models (if anything at all) why are you aiming your sights so high at 1500? My first army was the one out of the AoBR book, and that one is 350 points or so. Something that I prattle on about pretty frequently is that this game is not about winning or losing, it's about having fun, and it's about discovery. Right now a Kan Wall seems like a pretty cool idea, but there are a LOT of different ways to play Orks that you probably haven't even begun to imagine. Start small and build your way up; the way I started, I bought literally anything that I thought was interesting at the time, things that I could get for cheap from friends or online, or whatever, and I put it on the table. Two years went by before I started to really understand my playstyle and define my army to what I have now. It seems like new players put far too much planning into it and forget to simply enjoy the game. Either way, plan small. By the time you actually have 1500 points you might find that your dream list has changed a hundred times.

Yeah, me and a friend purchased the AOBR set, he took SM I took Orks. We have been playing with that learning the rules and all that good stuff. This weekend, we plan on going to a few stores to try and get an experienced player to walk us through a full game to make sure we're not missing any rules. This army seems like it would compliment my playstyle greatly. I have a nice mix of Fast units, sneaky units, and lotsa shooty units

The AOBR Orks are pretty bland to me thus far, shooting with sluggas is fine and all, but it doesn't feel shooty at all. I have my army set up in such a way where i have 3 separate Kopta units with buzzsaw and TL Rokkits. 20 boyz with 2 big shootas, and my Nobz are grouped with my WB. Might not be the ideal setup, but it seems to work so far. Still, I am missing all of the cool action I can be getting with Kommandos, Lootas, Kanz and a BIG squad of boyz.


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skycapt44 wrote:Something to consider:
Drop one of the KFF Meks. One should cover you just fine.
Drop a buzzcopta. That's 155points!
Get another unit of kans with rokkits.
One Mek can cover your two boys units with ease and the more kans you have the more protection they will give your boys. Never mix weapons for kans units have all one thing. You still have 20 or so points to dish out now.

Hmm...that is another thing to consider...

I've never played the Kan-Wall strategy, but I've certainly lost to it! If you're looking for a good competetive army Kans all the way.

...Hunh. Always thought Snikrot was 80. Well, thanks for that.

Keep in mind with the KFF that its range only extends 6" from the MODEL, not the unit the model is in. Two -big- units of Boyz, and two Kan Squadrons can be very tricky to coordinate under that radius with only one KFF, especially with a heavy terrain board, or an annoying Lash player.

If you want to play with a single KFF, however, it does open up an interesting possibility, of taking further advantage of the Snikrot trick. You can attach an HQ like Ghazzy, a Warboss, a Biker Boss, I particularly like Mad Doc Grotsnik, even, and Ambush! him onto the table too, which makes it a much more effective surprise unit. Fielding Ghazzy is fun since you can Ambush!, activate Ghazzy's Waaagh!, move a free 6" fleet, and then assault enemy armor, terminators (2+ invuln save rocks), and much bigger, meaner targets. It can be pretty mean.

I don't know if I like the idea of losing a KFF. As you said, I think it would be pretty tricky keeping my units protected - though the alternative HQ options intrigue me, I think I'd be fine with just a 5 kommando, 2 burna and snikrot sneak team, which at the very worst ends up being a very cheap, 205 point trick (literally) that can screw up your opponent's strategy. I also think the 3rd Deffkopta is a nice option to have as well, since that's another cheap power weapon + vehicle harasser/destroyer.

Unless I hear any other good reasons I should change it up, I think this list is pretty good. The only thing I'm still debating is the lootas - that one still isn't quite for sure for me yet...mainly because I've read varying opinions on whether the 2 squads of 5 are better in this setup, or just the single squad of 15. It just seems to me with the setup I have, 2 lootas squads of lootas positioned far behind both kan wallz seems better and more versatile. I'd have to probably cut a deffkopta for the extra 5 lootas too.

I would love to hear more opinions though; I have noted mercer's thoughts on the kommando squad being "pants," as he so eloquently put it. I still think it would be a fun, even effective fielding of units - I'm motivated to give them a try at least. I'd like to hear more critics if there is anything left to critique or boost this list. Otherwise I am going to start the slow build into it.

By the way, for any eyes that read this thread, I would probably need most of the pieces listed here - so if you have some Orks you're trying to pawn, look no further! Shoot me a pm.

You need a unit of grots to hold objectives. With only two troop choices, you will be hurting on alot of the missions. You can't really afford to keep one mob stationary.

king a big mek allowed us to use killer kans as troops. /sigh

Taoofss wrote:You need a unit of grots to hold objectives. With only two troop choices, you will be hurting on alot of the missions. You can't really afford to keep one mob stationary.

So what's considered efficient? 10 grots + runtherd = 40? Thanks!

Erudog wrote:

Taoofss wrote:You need a unit of grots to hold objectives. With only two troop choices, you will be hurting on alot of the missions. You can't really afford to keep one mob stationary.

So what's considered efficient? 10 grots + runtherd = 40? Thanks!

Yup that works, I usually throw any extra points into my unit of grots.

That's nonsense. Orks don't care about objectives, they go for the table every game.