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The gets hot rule on a plasma gun i dont like so me n my brother were talkin about how to change it without making a decent weapon ott on power or making it pointless. we came up with this, literally 5 mins ago so im not 100% sure i like it so before i forget im putting it on here to hopefully get some decent feedback.


str 6 ap 3 (no gets hot).

str 7 ap 2 gets hot on a roll of a 1.

str 8 ap 2 (for plasma cannons only) gets hot on a 1 and 2.

Any input is great.

I think they're fine as is. No need to get rid of "Gets hot." It's only on a 1, after all.

What Candlestick said.

Tau already have plasma like that.
Our plasma is only s6, but no gets hot.

If you don't like plasma, take a meltagun; the current ruling seems fine to me.

Yeah, I think I read something about mid-power plasma shoot, weaker but safer.
Cannot be sure if 4th Ed. of Tau, but it didn't catch my interest eitherway, be it for being too weak or simply Tau.
Adding S6 AP3 (only S -1?) or S8 AS2 (stronger yet?) options seems overpowering an already versatile weapon, see how GW has already maimed plasma cannons with 5thEd. scatter rules, perhaps they thought it was too good too...

As mentioned Tau's plasma is S6 without Gets Hot! Also Eldar's Starcannons are plasma weapons that are S6 without Gets Hot!

Hido wrote:As mentioned Tau's plasma is S6 without Gets Hot! Also Eldar's Starcannons are plasma weapons that are S6 without Gets Hot!

As are Multi-Lasers, Griffons, and probably something else I can't remember. Though neither of those are Plasma. Which was probably the point.

The Tau use of the Plasma gun (S6 Ap2) is a Tau belief that the idea that a weapon should maim or kill its user is ridiculous (and it is). The Imperium, who can bring trillions of bodies to a fight, don't care, and use better guns at a cost of losing a man 1/6 of the time. Eldar have mastered Plasma technology, and so use plasma in many forms with no trouble whatsoever. Note that their missile launchers fire plasma grenades.

The Imperium's Plasma gun fits fine with them. I really don't see much reason to change the rule. If you guys don't like it, you can definitely find a way to make it work, though. You could make the Plasma gun 20 pts (it's 15, right), and not get hot. Do what you need to in order to make the game fun.

The problem I have with current plasma guns is that they cost 5 pts more then a melta. They should cost the same as a melta like they used to. If they want to keep the inflated cost they should have got rid of gets hot.

Kirika wrote:The problem I have with current plasma guns is that they cost 5 pts more then a melta. They should cost the same as a melta like they used to. If they want to keep the inflated cost they should have got rid of gets hot.

But that removes the fluff...

Plasma guns are alright, just since you're probably marines, and are disappointed at the points cost, just remember that Plasma guns are better in bulk, and you aren't IG afterall.

Instead take the gun that is better for a flexible unit in the first place and take a Melta-gun. In my experience, with Marines it's always more worthwhile to take a Meltagun than a Plasmagun, even if I were to ignore the costs.

Kirika wrote:The problem I have with current plasma guns is that they cost 5 pts more then a melta. They should cost the same as a melta like they used to. If they want to keep the inflated cost they should have got rid of gets hot.

Melta has the disadvantage of only being real good when within half distance, so should they cut the cost down to 5 or drop the disadvantage. I love plasma because at 12 inches, the not as good range for meltas, I can get off twice the number of shots. Unless you are charging AV 14, plasma has a huge advantage over melta with a fairly small downside.

The current rules and point costs are just about perfect.

Kirika wrote:The problem I have with current plasma guns is that they cost 5 pts more then a melta. They should cost the same as a melta like they used to. If they want to keep the inflated cost they should have got rid of gets hot.

It also has twice the range of the melta, and can double tap at 12". I think the costs and drawbacks are actually pretty spot on. It's just that last edition, melta tended to be overlook and plasma was king, so now that there are other viable alternatives, plasma looks like it's coming off as weak.

Tau and Eldar already have the first option you mention, but at ap 2, and orks have Kustom mega blastas, which are basicly plasma guns that take +1 strength for assuault 1 instead of rapid fire.

I'm personally fine with plasma as it is, but you do what you want with it.

Nah Plasma weapons are as good as it gets.

the old Gets Hot rules had something like this.


the number of shots fired determined the roll for Gets Hot.

1 Shot was a one(Pistols and Guns not in Rapid Fire)

2 shots were a one and two(Rapid fire)

3 Shots were ones, twos, and threes(I don't think there was any weapon with that many shots and rapid fire though)


that meant it was possable for a model to hit with it's weapon and take a wound at the same time(BS5+)

I don't see that as a problem or "unrealistic".

I do feel there is a little too much complaining from IoM army players on this issue.

The IoM gets a lot more weapon options than other armies and really doesn't need them to be improved further.

Arn't the normal rules ok for the "it gets hot"?

Grey Templar wrote:the old Gets Hot rules had something like this.


the number of shots fired determined the roll for Gets Hot.

1 Shot was a one(Pistols and Guns not in Rapid Fire)

2 shots were a one and two(Rapid fire)

3 Shots were ones, twos, and threes(I don't think there was any weapon with that many shots and rapid fire though)


that meant it was possable for a model to hit with it's weapon and take a wound at the same time(BS5+)

I believe there was an Ork special character Flash Git with an Assault 3 Gets Hot! gun back in the day and it worked exactly like that. I don't think too many people took him...

DoW

The big problem I have with plasma is that it costs 1.5 times as much as melta and has the gets hot rule. If plasma and melta cost the same like they used to in older editions I would be ok with the gets hot rule.

Kirika wrote:The big problem I have with plasma is that it costs 1.5 times as much as melta and has the gets hot rule. If plasma and melta cost the same like they used to in older editions I would be ok with the gets hot rule.

And then what would be the point of taking a plasma gun in the first place. AP 2?

Grow up, part of the fun of taking a weapon like a plasma pistol/gun/cannon is to invite some risk into the game. If meltas had a rule that when their wielders take a wound, all adjacent models took a hit, people would stop playing meltas and complain about it.

Seriously, this is about the third or fourth thread on this topic that I have read, quit whining. The rule is fine as it is.

A weapon that kills you every few times you shoot it isnt a very good weapon if you ask me

mrsmith wrote:A weapon that kills you every few times you shoot it isnt a very good weapon if you ask me

Which is why I've always rationalized that it "merely" hurts enough to effectively incapacitate the user without killing them.

Same in-game effect, MUCH less idiocy involved in the use of it...

It still looks stupid.
I mean, one out of six shoots you get incapacitated? What kind of weapon is that? How can commissars, aspiring champions or sergeants survive a campaign? Will they ever actually shoot or will they just fake it? I mean, if a grot or a cultist is attacking you, it will be actually safer to start throwing stones.

I thing gloomygrim got it right: you shoot it normally -> no risk; you put it on ful-strength -> you are risking your life. Perhaps 20 pts but it will be fluffier and slightly believable.

What about
str 4 ap 4: no gets hot.
str 6 ap 3: gets hot on a roll of a 1.
str 8 ap 2: gets hot on a 1 and 2.
20 Pts?

I play IG and believe that the current point cost and rules are about right. If you made plasma guns cheaper, my infantry would never use another special weapon. As is, I use six melta guns and nine plasma guns in a 1750 point army. Plasma is just more all-purpose than melta and the ability to double tap along with Bring it Down! and Fire on My Target! orders is invaluable. Abbadon, Asdrubal Vect, Demon Princes all hate the plasma. Ditto for anything with FnP.

da001 wrote:I mean, one out of six shoots you get incapacitated? What kind of weapon is that? How can commissars, aspiring champions or sergeants survive a campaign? Will they ever actually shoot or will they just fake it? I mean, if a grot or a cultist is attacking you, it will be actually safer to start throwing stones.

Well, to be fair, they kinda sidestep the failure probability in the novels. Plasma guns are awesome at all times and almost never cause problems (especially not against main characters) when the plot doesn't call for it.

In the fluff, however, they're supposed to be highly dangerous and unpredictable weaponry (I think one fluff text talked about rare Kragmeer Plasma guns only having a 45% failure rate! Woo!). But you get incredible power for the risk, and that's kinda the point. They even specified that you couldn't take the BS upgrade on plasma gunners back in the day, they wouldn't live long enough to get skilled with their weapons!

Long story short, I'm more than happy to drive around with a CCS and 4 plasma or a Vet squad and 3 plasma any day of the week. 22 points for a double-tapping 12" S7 AP2 weapon at BS4 is fantastic, even if you DO end up wounding yourself 1/6 of the time. If he kills a single marine, he's pretty much paid for himself (let alone a Terminator!).

I'm quite happy the way they are, and I think most guard players would agree. If you want safe plasma play Eldar or Tau.

DoW

There is nothing wrong with the current rules. Weapons artnt built to expload so the fact that this only happens on a 1 is reasonable.

I use a lot of plasma (I play CSM), and it looks OK gamewise. This is not the point.

My problem is fluffwise. I mean: you have been promoted to aspiring champion and replace the boltgun with a plasma gun. You are supposed to live hundred of years using your weapon in the eternal war. And you are not easily incapacitated, since weakness will probably see you dead.
My conclusion: I will never fire my weapon. Not if I want to keep living for a month.
Will you? Imagine you are a Commissar. Will you really fire your weapon against a cultist?

JB wrote:

I play IG and believe that the current point cost and rules are about right. If you made plasma guns cheaper, my infantry would never use another special weapon. As is, I use six melta guns and nine plasma guns in a 1750 point army. Plasma is just more all-purpose than melta and the ability to double tap along with Bring it Down! and Fire on My Target! orders is invaluable. Abbadon, Asdrubal Vect, Demon Princes all hate the plasma. Ditto for anything with FnP.

^^ This.

Plasma has double the range of Melta and can double tap at 12 inches.

Yes, in reality, armies spend a lot of effort to make their weapons as safe as possible to their own side. No-one would use a weapon that wounded its operator one in six shots.

40K is just a game. IoM armies already have a much wider choice of special weapons than any Xeno armies. They really don't need more bennies on top.

Kilkrazy wrote:
Yes, in reality, armies spend a lot of effort to make their weapons as safe as possible to their own side. No-one would use a weapon that wounded its operator one in six shots.
40K is just a game.

Checkers is a game. 40k is a wargame based on a background. It is trying to represent an incredible rich and amazing universe. From my point of view (fluff addict) if a rule fails to do that, it is failing as a rule, no matter how balanced it is.
It is just an opinion, of course. I am here mostly for the fluff. I play sparsely, and usually lose. I think w40k may be 33% painting / modeling, 33% "just a game" and 33% books and background stuff.

From a fluffy point of view, I think gloomygrim got it right.
Never tried to explain Gets Hot! to a nooby? It is an akward moment. Most of them say "that´s pretty stupid" or something similar. It just make no sense. Like a Berserker hitting a vendetta with an axe.

da001 wrote:Imagine you are a Commissar. Will you really fire your weapon against a cultist?

Of course not, and fluff-wise a Commissar wouldn't use a Plasma Pistol against an unarmoured enemy either. They would save their shots for high-value targets like the rear armour of tanks, Chaos Space Marines, etc. For everything else, the trusty bolt-pistol is king. Which is ideally what we all want to do within the confines of the tabletop game as well.

The reason it doesn't reflect that in-game is because either the codex requires us to switch out the basic ranged weapon (say, a bolt pistol) for the plasma gun, or we want to save points and not have 2 weapons. Because of this, you find yourself 'wasting' or 'risking' shots against cultists/orks/guardsmen etc. because you aren't equipped with anything else to shoot at them.

Besides, da001 has it right... there are far more random and illogical things in the game mechanic than Gets Hot!

DoW