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The title says it all. Compensation. My apologies if this belongs in the discussions board, but I didn't know if it truly came under that forum or not.

When a company makes a major mistake that does not work in your favor, do you expect compensation of any kind, and how much? Is it proportionate?

The exact scenario is this, caused from my own life as of now:

I placed an order with a discount online gaming store in the UK with my Christmas funds on Dec 14, purchasing several hundred dollars worth of models. After a month of non-arrival, I sent an email that was never responded to. After nearly another month, I sent another email which they replied to, and resolved to find out why my order was taking so long.

In the ensuing investigations, it was found that instead of being sent air-mail it was sent by surface mail, and will not be here until early March at the earliest. This is a 2 month difference of when it was supposed to arrive, and has caused me no end of stress (First time ordering from this store, and I know no-one else who has done so.)

In compensation, they've offered to refund my postage, which is equivalent to about $15. My wife first thought that it isn't enough, am I wrong to agree with her in a way, that an error of this magnitude deserves more? Am I wrong to want compensation at all? What would you be doing?

I feel slightly bad about wanting compensation even if the whole affair after my order has been placed has been entirely unpleasant, feeling greedy, but at the same time, I wonder if I'm wrong to want compensation for the months of play I could have used these for, as well as the birthday and other things in between they were intended for.

----

So, again, do you of the Dakka expect compensation for a mistake like this, or do you wave it off with a 'Mistakes happen'. Do you expect compensation in any case? When would you do so?

If you want to talk about this specific case I'll move the thread to Dakka Discussions.

Was unsure if it came under that.

Aye, this case is the centre of it, so go ahead good sir.

I think a three month mistake is a pretty big one, however practically speaking there isn't much reason for the retailer to provide more compensation.

Legally, they breached the contract and offered you what you paid back, so there's not much else there. I suppose you could demand a full refund and return the models, but one reason companies give more back is to keep customers.

Frankly in that sort of situation I'd expect a lot more. You could talk to your credit card company about contesting the charge.

I'd cancel the order and notify my credit card company to recover the money.

If the order then turned up after that I would happily keep it content in the knowledge that I wouldn't be using them again anyway.

Compensation (or disambiguation) is to recompense for unexpected losses.

You have not lost anything due to the order not arriving, all you have had to suffer is a long wait. You had your postage paid as a measure of good will.

How do you measure the value of the compensation? I would assume if the late arrival had cost you financially then you would be entitled to compensation (e.g. painting a commissioned model, late arrival loses you business and leaves you out of pocket).

As Polonius said, if they've refunded (or offered to refund) I would doubt they're obliged to do anything else. Even if they are, how difficult is it going to be to extract some money from a different country, under different laws? (I assume their contract laws apply).

I'd be as pissed off as you, but I think this one is going to have to go under the heading of 'experience'.

When I've had unpleasant experiences ordering from an online store, I usually don't want to go through the hassle of demanding that they throw something in to make up for my trouble, or the like, if they don't offer. I just don't give them my business anymore... eventually, the companies that treat their customers poorly lose out to the ones with excellent service.

Vote with your wallet, basically...

That said, I would hope for more than what you were offered- however, I'm not sure what they can really do to make up for such a colossal mistake. I'd be surprised to have someone order something just before Christmas, and select a shipping method that would take months!

I actually had the opposite experience, placing a large order from a new online store just before Christmas... and being very pleased by the outcome. Sorry this one didn't work out :-/

I would like to clear up that I don't expect more than what I was offered, as I know there's really no way for me to put them into that position (And I'm rather over the whole affair personally), and, as Ulver said, I'll just simply have to place it under the mantle of experience.

The question is more towards whether or not I'm a greedy SOB for feeling that it's not enough for the magnitude of the mistake made, and whether the community thinks that it's sufficient, or they have a similar outlook.

@ RiTides: They don't actually have a choice of surface shipping to Aus. Orders from the this store to Aus have to be placed through email, and I was simply told 'Postage is this much, 2-3 weeks delivery' (Which is the standard maximum wait-time for air-post from the UK to Australia). To me, when surface shipping isn't offered at all, to then make the mistake they have seems even worse.

Well, you're still getting your models, even if it's well overdue. Take the $15 and tough it out. It sucks, but you're still getting your models. Don't buy from them if you can avoid it, and if you can't then try and make sure everything's fine and dandy with shipping in the future.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:The question is more towards whether or not I'm a greedy SOB for feeling that it's not enough for the magnitude of the mistake made, and whether the community thinks that it's sufficient, or they have a similar outlook.

I think most people would feel the same, I know I would (and have). You've been wronged (OK, so it was probably only an admin error, but the result is affecting you) and you want something to even things up.

I don't want to say refunding the postage is insufficient even though it hardly makes up for waiting months to receive your order. That road eventually leads to the compensation culture you see in the US: lawsuits of millions of dollars thrown about for the merest slight - a route that the UK has followed in recent years.

$15 is pretty cheap for shipping hundreds of dollars of models. Suck it up, soldier!

Agreed... anyone would feel this way, I think.

If they didn't offer you that shipping option, it is even worse... however, sometimes it's just a one-off experience. I've had fantastic and less-than-fantastic experiences with TheWarStore, which is one online retailer that most people usually vouch for. I ended up moving on to a few others... but I know many people will swear by them.

So if you have no other option, it might be worth trying them again in the future, and just being extremely clear about shipping... but I don't think there's any question that most people would be frustrated over going through something like this.

While not necessarily in the OP's case, this is one reason why I don't want to deal with anyone but my FLGS to order large amounts of models. Dealing with a nameless, faceless website is tedious, I've done it before and I hate doing it. At least when I can look the guy (who ordered my stuff) in the face, I have someone I can deal with.

If the OP has no local game store, my apologies...

There are 2 elements here. There are tangible damages here, and there are fungible damages. The tangible damage is that you paid for a grade of postage, and received a lesser grade. The remedy for that would be to refund the postage, which they have offered to do.

The other element, in the lost time, is fungible. What's your time worth? It can't be quantified, and as such, it's impossible to really remedy that in a workable way. I'd say you're certainly entitled to the refund of the postage, but anything else... you probably won't get. Do you know what it is you actually want? You better start there.


It would be good business sense for them to offer you a discount on a future order, and I don't think there would be anything wrong with sending them a polite, short, and clear letter laying it out: this is what you did, this is how it screwed me, this is what I want. I needed those models for a tournament, and they weren't here. As this was the first large order of many prospective future large orders, I'd like a discount on the next order to compensate me, as I'd like to continue shopping with you. Don't say I'm never ordering from you again, or things of that sentiment, as they remove any incentive to do anything for you.

Did they say that they'd deliver by a certain date?
If it's not arrived I'd cancel it.

Brother SRM wrote:Well, you're still getting your models, even if it's well overdue. Take the $15 and tough it out. It sucks, but you're still getting your models.

Aspiring Champion wrote:$15 is pretty cheap for shipping hundreds of dollars of models. Suck it up, soldier!

Way to rationalize mediocrity, guys.

Was there an error in their system for figuring shipping costs?

I cannot imagine any possible way for several hundred dollar worth of GW items ( even if its in blisters ) to cost $15

and AirMail..

Wait a minute....

H.B.M.C. hasn't arrived yet with his link to Maelstrom (who offer free postage to Aus).

Just saying...

filbert wrote:Wait a minute....

H.B.M.C. hasn't arrived yet with his link to Maelstrom (who offer free postage to Aus).

Just saying...

Ahhhh! i knew that was comming :'P

but seriously yes there are free postage deals. BUT its rare see shipping fee charged at such a low rate ( when they bother to )

Lets put it this way… what would you do? What would be reasonable from a business perspective?

They've sent out models to you, but with surface shipping, so for the company the order is sent. If they compensated you with anything more than the actual shipping they would be at a considerable loss.

They could -perphaps- send an RMA for the surface shipped parcel and courier a new one to you and hope that you will remember to return the slow parcel once it arrives. Which will be of extra money and time spent for them. Perhaps not even justified money/time since they have so many customers they can afford losing one.

I'd compensate you for the shipping cost and apoligize profusely, but more than that... meh. Sucks for you, sucks for me (taking the role as that company) most likely losing a customer. The world still rotates though...

Ouze wrote:...and there are fungible damages.

Broken mushrooms?

Ouze wrote:The other element, in the lost time, is fungible. What's your time worth?

There hasn't been any time lost though. If he'd had to make alternative arrangements, e.g. drive for 2 hours to a store to buy replacements then yes, that is lost time. Late arrival is not 'lost' time.

pixelpusher wrote:I'd compensate you for the shipping cost and apoligize profusely, but more than that... meh. Sucks for you, sucks for me (taking the role as that company) most likely losing a customer. The world still rotates though...

Yep and you'd lose not only 1 customer but every person in his gaming group that he bitches to for 2 months. I would then take it to the internet and tell the world, OP has been kind enough not to name the store but if he did how much more damage could be done.

Your better off pacifying the customer with a free box of whatever (which you buy at GWS 60% off suppliers price anyways) than to take months of bad press.

Personally I'd just cancel my order and charge it back on my credit card.

There seems to be an assumption on the part of the posters here that you were specifically told that it would be sent air-mail here. Were you told that it would be sent by that method?

Also, the invoice you received should also have shown the postage costs, again it should have identified a cost discrepancy. Air mail was how much?

As for cancelling the order, if I remember my credit laws correctly, cancelling a product because it is late, but already dispatched, will not refund you your cash. That will only work if the order is defective.

Mark it up to experience, and remember to check all the print on your invoices next time.

Cheers

Andrew

AndrewC, he posted this above:

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:@ RiTides: They don't actually have a choice of surface shipping to Aus. Orders from the this store to Aus have to be placed through email, and I was simply told 'Postage is this much, 2-3 weeks delivery' (Which is the standard maximum wait-time for air-post from the UK to Australia). To me, when surface shipping isn't offered at all, to then make the mistake they have seems even worse.

I'll say this- it's usually not best to toss a question like this out to the internet. Most of the people saying it's no big deal would be really upset if it was them waiting the extra 2 months. Not worth the e-drama, really...

AndrewC wrote:There seems to be an assumption on the part of the posters here that you were specifically told that it would be sent air-mail here. Were you told that it would be sent by that method?

Also, the invoice you received should also have shown the postage costs, again it should have identified a cost discrepancy. Air mail was how much?

As for cancelling the order, if I remember my credit laws correctly, cancelling a product because it is late, but already dispatched, will not refund you your cash. That will only work if the order is defective.

Mark it up to experience, and remember to check all the print on your invoices next time.

Cheers

Andrew

I had to go back and check, to make sure I didn't simply make the assumption based on the estimated delivery times I was given, but yes, it was stated it would be sent by airmail. The Paypal invoice also has the correct charge of airmail, not surface mail.

I have no intention of cancelling the product, as that will lead to further time lost, and at this point that's the last thing I want.

@ RiTides: I've started to notice that, and regret doing so . Certainly something you can look objectively at, until it happens to you.

I would demand a full refund. They already have you (probably very large) sum of money, and you have to wait three months?

- What if by the time the models get there, you are no longer interested in what you were planning on doing with them? A lot can change in three months

- They've also screwed you out of your own hobby funds. If something like this happened to me, I'd be pretty much unable to spend any more money on my hobby and for a three month period would have nothing to show for that.

I'd say this is quite a huge gaffe, and would ask for a refund and offer to ship the items back at their expense when they do arrive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:

AndrewC wrote:There seems to be an assumption on the part of the posters here that you were specifically told that it would be sent air-mail here. Were you told that it would be sent by that method?

Also, the invoice you received should also have shown the postage costs, again it should have identified a cost discrepancy. Air mail was how much?

As for cancelling the order, if I remember my credit laws correctly, cancelling a product because it is late, but already dispatched, will not refund you your cash. That will only work if the order is defective.

Mark it up to experience, and remember to check all the print on your invoices next time.

Cheers

Andrew

I had to go back and check, to make sure I didn't simply make the assumption based on the estimated delivery times I was given, but yes, it was stated it would be sent by airmail. The Paypal invoice also has the correct charge of airmail, not surface mail.

I have no intention of cancelling the product, as that will lead to further time lost, and at this point that's the last thing I want.

@ RiTides: I've started to notice that, and regret doing so . Certainly something you can look objectively at, until it happens to you.

You could easily demand a refund, get it, order the products from a different store (Maelstrom or Wayland for example) and have them before march.

Try something like this.

titled: Complaint - ref order ######

Dear madam/sir

I write this to you to express my dissatisfaction with the service I have received from your company following my placement of an order to the cost of £###.## with the reference #### and I am hoping you can provide me with a more adequate compensation than I have, so far, been offered.

I placed the order on ##/##/## under the understanding that, as quoted on your website, it would arrive to me on ##/##/## via airmail.

When it did not arrive in good time, I emailed your offices on ##/##/## but unfortunately was not responded to. I contacted yourselves on ##/##/##, this time successfully and received an email back assuring this would be investigated.

Following the investigation, it came to light that your company had erroneously dispatched the goods via surface mail and that the goods would therefore not be with me until March, 3 months after expected delivery. You apologised and offered to refund my postage to the sum of $15. Firstly thank you for that offer, however, I do not believe it adequately compensates me for a wait of a quarter of a year for goods that were offered as delivered to me within days, not to mention the disruption and upset that worrying over this order has caused.

I ordered from you due to your good discount and on the recommendation of several friends who had previously ordered from yourselves. This experience has shaken my faith in your company and I would like to have that faith restored and reassure my friends that they were not wrong in suggesting you.

I would therefore ask that you provide a more adequate compensation, in the form of either a partial refund or of an amount of store credit.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope to continue doing business with you in the future.

Sincerely

#############

@RiTides. Yes he did say that but with the times on airmail being in brackets I wanted to make sure that wasn't him adding an explanation.

@VPB. I would go with MGS letter or something similar, but would also play up the fact that it was a Christmas present for you, for which you are still waiting. Sorry if it seems like I was nitpicking, but I always assume there are three sides to any story, yours, his and the truth.

Cheers

Andrew

While I'm not sure about the UK, here in the states there is a presumption of a reasonable time for delivery, and you may not have received the models in a reasonable time. Therefore, there may have been a breach and you may be entitled to get the models in the reasonable time.

One option is to cure the breach and get compensation: find another dealer/flgs, buy the figures, and have the online company pay the difference. This is unlikely to happen, so you'd have to sue

Another option is to value the time lost (no idea how, but you can try) and demand restitution. Again, you'll probably be ignored, so you'd have to sue.

So...unless you're willing to invest more time and money, just take the deal and let them know you won't be ordering from there again. And you'll point out your experience on dakka, warseer, bols, etc.

See what happens then