Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Curious on your opinions for the ideal loadout for Mech Vets.

The popular ones I've seen are...

3x Melta.

2x Melta, 1x Flamer, Demolitions.


I've been wanting to experiment with...

3x Plasma, Demolitions.

I usually have 4 Vet squads, so 2 each of 3x Melta and 3x Plasma. Plus 2 CCS's with 4x Melta and Plasma. All in Chimeras, naturally.

I never understood the 2 Melta, 1 Flamer loadout. I know that Danny Internets ran his vets that way for a while, but it just seemed inefficient, especially when every Chimera has a Heavy Flamer.

Demolitions I used to run, but it's a lot of points for a very narrow benefit. Demo charges are sweet, but thats what we have SWS's for.

odorofdeath wrote:Demolitions I used to run, but it's a lot of points for a very narrow benefit.

Yeah, ALL of their doctrines are that way.

Usually it's best to focus on what vets are good at: killing tough targets at bargain prices. 3x melta or 3x plasma. Doctrines only if you have some sneaky, secret, specific purpose for them or if you really, really have nothing better to spend the points on.

I prefer 1x plasma vet squad with carapace and 3x melta vet squads.

Why Carapace? It seems like a lot of points for what usually (for me at least) end up as single, maybe twice-firing units.

I'd spend those 30 points on a naked PCS or something, rather than make a squishy unit only slightly less squishy and get something else more killy, like more Veterans.

Ailaros wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Demolitions I used to run, but it's a lot of points for a very narrow benefit.

Yeah, ALL of their doctrines are that way.

Usually it's best to focus on what vets are good at: killing tough targets at bargain prices. 3x melta or 3x plasma. Doctrines only if you have some sneaky, secret, specific purpose for them or if you really, really have nothing better to spend the points on.

This, mainly. I have been tempted to run Demo with Plasmas, too, since the charge meshes with plasmas pretty well and ends up pretty good as anti-infantry. Then they have flexibility to assault a vehicle if needs be. But it still just doesn't seem quite worth it to me.

odorofdeath wrote:Why Carapace? It seems like a lot of points for what usually (for me at least) end up as single, maybe twice-firing units.

I'd spend those 30 points on a naked PCS or something, rather than make a squishy unit only slightly less squishy and get something else more killy, like more Veterans.

Carapace because almost every non IG army has AP 5 weapons. You're not going from 5+ to 4+, you're going from ignored armor to 4+, which is pretty nice (just ask my Stormtroopers). However, Vets ideally stay in their vehicles, and cover is free (if you can find it). So yet again it's just barely not worth it.

I run 2 3x Plasma, 3 3x Melta vets, as well as a 4x Plasma CCS.

So I'm a masochist.

3x Flamers for me. I use em as a sort of "get in your face" type of unit, Especially with Tau and Orks.

You're better using the PCS or SWS with flamers for that sort of role. Flamers on mechvets largely wastes their BS4, although with shotguns they make for an acceptable assault unit against really, really weak squads.

sourclams wrote:You're better using the PCS or SWS with flamers for that sort of role. Flamers on mechvets largely wastes their BS4, although with shotguns they make for an acceptable assault unit against really, really weak squads.

agreed, my vets always have melta guns or plasma rifles. I'll take 1 basic platoon to grab an objective and the flamers in the command squad always come in handy if the platoon gets assaulted

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I've been wanting to experiment with...

3x Plasma, Demolitions.

I've tried this one. It works pretty well, but they are horrendously expensive for a guard unit. The AP2 template combined with 6 rapid fire AP2 shots usually sees them clear a marine squad off the table if they weren't super careful with their spacing. Six BS4 S7 shots is also pretty good against lighter vehicles (especially bring it down), and if you come across anything heftier, you have a bunch of meltabombs.

You're spending 200 points with a transport for these guys though, so you have to keep them safe and not commit them to just anything. That, and your opponents quickly learn how nasty they can be, so they get lots of attention. It kind of flies in the face of the traditional guard approach of a bunch of real cheap but deadly units to saturate your opponent's target priorities.

Gavo wrote:I run 2 3x Plasma, 3 3x Melta vets, as well as a 4x Plasma CCS.

So I'm a masochist.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

syypher wrote:I prefer 1x plasma vet squad with carapace and 3x melta vet squads.

A 4+ save isn't going to protect them from anything. They will run and die like any other guardsman.

Exactly. If your opponents are having trouble killing a single squad of Veterans, you've either already won or are playing an incompetent.

I prefer to keep em' cheap, and hope that their bawkses do the protecting.

Terminus wrote:

Gavo wrote:I run 2 3x Plasma, 3 3x Melta vets, as well as a 4x Plasma CCS.So I'm a masochist.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Nah, I get gratification from inflicting pain to myself (my army). They're all going to die when the Chimera blows anyway, might as well blow stuff up in style.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Demolitions.

It's called a Leman Russ Demolisher.

Unless the metagame really required str8 ap 2 large blasts (perhaps lots of multi-wound T4 models or non-assault TEQ's) just keep them as melta or plasma vets. Massed melta and plasma fire do much the same thing anyway, are more efficient and are more reliable.

I like fielding 10pt autocannon teams in my mech vet squads; for that first turn, if I don't need melta weaponry, to unleash so much firepower.

Well, the return of DA Deathwing and the encroaching Grey Knights will probably put plenty of TEQ and multiwound T4 models on the table.

Razerous wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Demolitions.

It's called a Leman Russ Demolisher.

Unless the metagame really required str8 ap 2 large blasts (perhaps lots of multi-wound T4 models or non-assault TEQ's) just keep them as melta or plasma vets. Massed melta and plasma fire do much the same thing anyway, are more efficient and are more reliable.

I like fielding 10pt autocannon teams in my mech vet squads; for that first turn, if I don't need melta weaponry, to unleash so much firepower.

Yeah...except that you can throw a demo charge in addition to firing 3 plasma guns, so at 6", instead of putting out 6 S7 AP2 shots, you're putting one 6 S7 AP2 shots, and a S8 AP2 large blast...

Basically, the issue with Mech Vets is that you want to keep things at mid range. Not too far, not too close. If things are far away, you've got things in the arsenal to hurt them. But you need to make sure that any threat that gets close is in for a world of pain. AP2 S8 large blasts hidden in an infantry units = world of pain, especially when you've got 4 or 5 squads equipped like this.

Or you could take the 150 points you spent on situational upgrades and buy another Mech Vet squad, with 2 Meltas.

The whole Demo Charge just seems super gimmicky to me...
what if your playing an army that doesn't want to advance, and can outshoot you? I.E., Tau or Space Wolves.

odorofdeath wrote:Or you could take the 150 points you spent on situational upgrades and buy another Mech Vet squad, with 2 Meltas.

The whole Demo Charge just seems super gimmicky to me...
what if your playing an army that doesn't want to advance, and can outshoot you? I.E., Tau or Space Wolves.

In that specific case, a squad of extra Melta Vets doesn't really help either...

If the point is to keep your troops as far away as is possible from your opponent, then your only real option is to take mechvets and start them in reserve every game. If you're not willing to do that, then you're going to have vets that are going to wind up close to stuff.

As for facing shooty armies, extra mechvets are DEFINITELY better. Your opponent can only kill so many things in any given turn. Taking more things helps ensure that SOMETHING makes it. Giving your troops expensive upgrades means that getting your stuff shot up just hurts more, rather than less.

odorofdeath wrote:Or you could take the 150 points you spent on situational upgrades and buy another Mech Vet squad, with 2 Meltas.

The whole Demo Charge just seems super gimmicky to me...
what if your playing an army that doesn't want to advance, and can outshoot you? I.E., Tau or Space Wolves.

It's not that easy for Tau to outshoot IG.

They've got a couple of weapons -- the railgun and the pulse rifle -- which are high S and R compared with the equivalent IG weapons. Everything else is weaker and/or shorter ranged. A lot of IG weapons are cheaper, more available, have the range to cover most of the table, and ignore a lot of Tau armour saves.

Kilkrazy wrote: A lot of IG weapons are cheaper, more available, have the range to cover most of the table, and ignore a lot of Tau armour saves.

They don't even need to be all those other things (even though they are), "cheaper" is the opportune word here.

Broadsides with railguns and shield drones may be good against tanks, but it also costs 245 points. At that level, you can get TWO 3x lascannon HWSs and halfway to Marbo. This given, you can see how tau get outshot by guard.

On the subject of tau. Tau can make better use of terrain to hide or cut fire lanes and in that way they can 'outshoot' IG... but in an open field, point for point nobody can "slug it out" with IG. Yes, I'm including any space wolf build. They can be beaten because they interact poorly with terrain, particularly LOS blocking terrain.

On the subject of veteran loadouts... I don't really like answering this question without the context of the rest of your list. An army with 3x manticores or medusas, 3x vendettas and a melta CCS doesn't need any more melta. But an army running non-vanquisher russes in heavies and hellhound/banewolves in fast attack sure as hell needs some melta.

In almost all cases, 3x melta or 3x plasma is what you are going to want. But if you've got 20-30 points left over I have often added autocannons to some or all of my vet squads. It is important to not let the presence of the heavy weapon prohibit you from playing the unit correctly. When you should be moving, move. And if you don't want to be pulled in more than one direction during a game, you can just leave them off. But the heavy weapon is cheap, BS4, and can contribute in a measurable way to the first turn, or the first two turns of a game.

Shep wrote:On the subject of tau. Tau can make better use of terrain to hide or cut fire lanes and in that way they can 'outshoot' IG... but in an open field, point for point nobody can "slug it out" with IG. Yes, I'm including any space wolf build. They can be beaten because they interact poorly with terrain, particularly LOS blocking terrain.

On the subject of veteran loadouts... I don't really like answering this question without the context of the rest of your list. An army with 3x manticores or medusas, 3x vendettas and a melta CCS doesn't need any more melta. But an army running non-vanquisher russes in heavies and hellhound/banewolves in fast attack sure as hell needs some melta.

In almost all cases, 3x melta or 3x plasma is what you are going to want. But if you've got 20-30 points left over I have often added autocannons to some or all of my vet squads. It is important to not let the presence of the heavy weapon prohibit you from playing the unit correctly. When you should be moving, move. And if you don't want to be pulled in more than one direction during a game, you can just leave them off. But the heavy weapon is cheap, BS4, and can contribute in a measurable way to the first turn, or the first two turns of a game.

FWIW, my list is very typical.

4x Mech Vets squads, 1x Melta CCS in Chimera, 2x Vendettas, 3x Hydras, 2x Demolishers w/ Plas sponsons

Or something like...

4x Mech Vets squads, 1x Melta CCS in Chimera, 2x Vendettas, 3x Hydras, Manticore, Exterminator

One of these is how it will end up.

Exterminator is icky. If you have 3 Hydras, you have plenty of light anti-tank. Manticores are quite good, though I usually take 2. Plus 2 Hydras.

You might consider switching one of your Vet squads to Plasma, just in case.

odorofdeath wrote:Exterminator is icky. If you have 3 Hydras, you have plenty of light anti-tank. Manticores are quite good, though I usually take 2. Plus 2 Hydras.

You might consider switching one of your Vet squads to Plasma, just in case.

Sorry, by Exterminator I meant the Plasma Monster...Eradicator? Eviscerator? Whatever, the Plasmanator is the Russ to which I'm referring.

As it is, I was planning on running ALL Plasma vets actually but I'm open to suggestions as to why this is a bad idea.

Yeah, there are too many guard things that begin with "e", "m" and "v".

Anyways, the hydra is clearly superior to the exterminator, unless you really need the AV14. Of course, this is true about ALL russ variants. ALL of them cost more than other HS options for equal or lesser firepower. It's all about if you need the AV14 or not.

1 harker led Vet squad with 3 Flamers and Demolitions; this goes in every list I make.

2 3XPlasma Vets With Carapace, that Ride in valks or Vendettas.

2 Chimera-borne 3x Melta Vets

2 hydras

2 manticores

CCS with 4x Plasma in Chimera.

Salt, pepper.

but my old list i was Working Towards was an All-foot List, very little melta.

Current List @ 1850 is Order-giving CCS with AC, Medic, 2xbodyguard and GL; Platoon with a PF officer, Medic, 3 Flamers, then 2 20 man blobs, One plasma and lascannon, the other Grenade Launcher and Heavy Bolter, 3xAC HWS; Harker Vet, 1x Plasma Grenadier Vet in a valk/Vendetta, 1 Chimelta vet, 2x Plasma Cannon Armored sentinels, A Bassilisk, and A Plasma-Cutioner.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:Exterminator is icky. If you have 3 Hydras, you have plenty of light anti-tank. Manticores are quite good, though I usually take 2. Plus 2 Hydras.

You might consider switching one of your Vet squads to Plasma, just in case.

Sorry, by Exterminator I meant the Plasma Monster...Eradicator? Eviscerator? Whatever, the Plasmanator is the Russ to which I'm referring.

As it is, I was planning on running ALL Plasma vets actually but I'm open to suggestions as to why this is a bad idea.

"Executioner" is the name you are looking for

My favorite plasma loadout:

CCS w/ plasma pistol and 4 plasma gunners, carapace
Inquisitor w/ three vet guardsmen with plasmaguns

Rolling together, that's 15 BS4 plasma shots, plus the two multilasers and heavy flamers of the chimeras.