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The more I think about it, the more it seems that paladins won't feature in my Grey Knight lists but I wonder what everyone thinks about the regular Terminators? Now that we've all seen the codex and considering that they are troops, can you make a case for spending points on them? Personally, I think that there are better ways to spend points but if you had to put together a 5 man GK Termie squad, what would you make?

How about:

5 X GKT
1 Psycannon
1 X Brotherhood banner
4 X pairs of nemesis falchions ( think they work like LC so get the re-roll ) Total = 270 points based off the leaked codex.

That would be 20 attacks on the charge with force weapons and re rolls to wound and a guarantee to pass the test for hammerhand thanks to the banner, too. Not too bad assaulting out of a LR but worth 270 points?

I won't use them

Well, on paper or computer screen rather, they look great, but in order to take them you would have to invest 520 points total, to get them across the board in time, that or risk DS. I do have to say though, they look like they would absolutely kill most things that get in their way.

Think it's one of those units I will play test before I really figure out how they will be featured in my army.

I will spam them.

Unfortunately they've taken a rather hard nerf from their current incarnation. They are cheaper, but significantly less effective as well, having lower WS, significantly lower Strength, less access to heavy weapons, lower Leadership, and no dedicated transport option or Shrouding, in exchange for being about 18% cheaper for a 5man squad. Before they actually matched up pretty well against TH/SS terminators (on average they'd actually routinely defeat TH/SS termi's man for man and be roughly equal point for point), now however unfortunately they've taken a huge loss in effectiveness, more than what their cost decrease warrants.

They don't feel like the ultra elite of the secret ace in the hole of the Inquisition and elite amongst the elite like they used to, rather just overly focused Space Marines :(

They aren't *bad* units per se looking over their rules and options, but they were the one really actually *good* unit in the DH book, and now are merely "meh, ok".

That said, the new plastics look good (though so did the metals, I'd really like to see them side by side) and they certainly won't be the worst units out there. However I'd expect them to be more often supplanted by Purifiers as Troops and Paladins for elite CC units.

I'll probably roll with two units of termies with an assault cannon and that psy ammo for the good ol +1 str to all my shots. Not sure about melee weapons yet, then again, not exactly going to pick up GK...

Soz man, GK dont get AssCans on termies.


Im going to be running 10 terminators with Mordrack. Check this out guys!


Mordracks Ridiculous Terminators:
Mordrack 200
10 Terminators 320pts
2 Daemohammers free (str 10 with hammerhand! YES! but ini 1 unless on DK)
1 Warding Stave 20 pts (just for kicks )
1 Brotherhood Banner 25pts (1+ attack each)
1 set of Falchions 5pts (Wtf why not )
Psybolt Ammunition 10pts (1+str on all storm bolters for 1p per model, YES PLEASE!)
5 Halberds Free (I like hitting first)
2 Incinerators 10pts.

390 pts.
+200 for Mordrack.

You know what that is? Thats 10 GK termies with insanely better stuff for 10 points LESS than naked TH/SS. Ignoring the fact that forcing Mordrack to tag along is kinda turning this into a 590 point deathstar unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Insanely better stuff ignoring SS ...yeaaah.

but Mordrack is well worth the points either way.

ummm can GK termies DS

ColdSadHungry wrote:
4 X pairs of nemesis falchions ( think they work like LC so get the re-roll ) Total = 270 points based off the leaked codex.

No they don't. They're only +1 attack.

Vaktathi wrote:Unfortunately they've taken a rather hard nerf from their current incarnation. They are cheaper, but significantly less effective as well, having lower WS, significantly lower Strength, less access to heavy weapons, lower Leadership, and no dedicated transport option or Shrouding, in exchange for being about 18% cheaper for a 5man squad. Before they actually matched up pretty well against TH/SS terminators (on average they'd actually routinely defeat TH/SS termi's man for man and be roughly equal point for point), now however unfortunately they've taken a huge loss in effectiveness, more than what their cost decrease warrants.

They don't feel like the ultra elite of the secret ace in the hole of the Inquisition and elite amongst the elite like they used to, rather just overly focused Space Marines :(

They aren't *bad* units per se looking over their rules and options, but they were the one really actually *good* unit in the DH book, and now are merely "meh, ok".

That said, the new plastics look good (though so did the metals, I'd really like to see them side by side) and they certainly won't be the worst units out there. However I'd expect them to be more often supplanted by Purifiers as Troops and Paladins for elite CC units.

I have to agree here. I'll probably end up using Paladins in the end. They may be overpriced, but they also look to be great fun on the table.

You get the same equipment essentially on a unit that is half the price minus the terminator armor (or you can for 14 points less get a jump infantry unit with the same equipment minus terminator armor)....

I can't see a reason to field them now.

10 GKSS > 5 GKT in my opinion.

Yep, that's one of the major problems with them now.

Thankfully, there are still some decent advantages:
-+1 attack
-access to brotherhood banner (one model in the unit loses his NFW, but the rest of the unit gets +1A and they don't have to test for their force weapons to go off)
-5++ save (4++ in close combat with sword)
-Relentless (good for psycannons)

And Justicar Thawn looks pretty badass too.

Strike Squads and Purifiers will definetly be the competetive options (behind Inquisitional Retinues, of course), but Terminators could still prove to be pretty useful. Not WS5 S6 useful, but useful enough.

Quick question - if you want to make a generic GK Grand Master, do you have to use the Justicar from the GKT box?

Not really. You can use whatever the hell you want so long as it's WYSIWYG and it fits on a 40mm base. And there's even a fair bit of leniency that can be had with that too.

Well I mean there is no Generic Commander model.

I can't tell if the brother captain is a box set that lets to make different HQs

grimz wrote:Well I mean there is no Generic Commander model.

I can't tell if the brother captain is a box set that lets to make different HQs

The Brother-Captain box on GW's web page is the old metal Brother-Captain terminator. He comes with Storm Bolter, a halberd and 5 different heraldic shield designs. Hence they can claim that he's in 8 different parts, allowing for HUGE individualization. I could accept that if it wasn't for the fact that his right arm is cast in one piece with the body, you just glue the hand and the halberd in place, which means that it'll be kinda hard to get that model to have anything other than a halberd...

Jaon wrote:
Soz man, GK dont get AssCans on termies.


Im going to be running 10 terminators with Mordrack. Check this out guys!


Mordracks Ridiculous Terminators:
Mordrack 200
10 Terminators 320pts
2 Daemohammers free (str 10 with hammerhand! YES! but ini 1 unless on DK)
1 Warding Stave 20 pts (just for kicks )
1 Brotherhood Banner 25pts (1+ attack each)
1 set of Falchions 5pts (Wtf why not )
Psybolt Ammunition 10pts (1+str on all storm bolters for 1p per model, YES PLEASE!)
5 Halberds Free (I like hitting first)
2 Incinerators 10pts.

390 pts.
+200 for Mordrack.

You know what that is? Thats 10 GK termies with insanely better stuff for 10 points LESS than naked TH/SS. Ignoring the fact that forcing Mordrack to tag along is kinda turning this into a 590 point deathstar unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Insanely better stuff ignoring SS ...yeaaah.

but Mordrack is well worth the points either way.

Hi, first post here, but have been following for a long time.

I have seen the final version of the codex from photos posted online, I think at BoK. I'm sad to say that Ghost Knights cost 40 points now like regular terminators and have lost most of the customization options.. namely can only take halberds, daemon hammers, falchions and one banner. No warding stave, no heavy weaps. They lost stealth as well... Overall quite an heavy nerf... Also the max number you can take is 5 (though I guess you could gain more than that via mordrack's rule).

All in all it seems to me that the "elite" options are quite meh... Without SSs, paladins and standard GKT suffer against vanilla terminators in comparison imho...

On the other hand the "standard" choices seem quite good... They do cost more than vanilla marines or variations, but they pack a punch too...
IE: land raider redeemer + 10 purifiers... Put psyflame on the redeemer and perhaps halberds on the purifiers... The redeemer now fires two str 7 ap 3 templates, the purifiers strike with power weapons at initiative 6 after 20 stormbolter shots (str 5 if you want to pay for psybolt). If you're facing a multi wound unit then it'll be 30 FORCE WEAPON (yes, they ALL inflict force weapon wounds in the final version) attacks at str 4. Otherwise it'll be 30 power weapon attacks at str 5.
Not much will live through that... And if you don't want to pay for the land raider, razorback or rhino are good as well (though the double str 7 template is nasty).

Let's see interceptor squads... Let's put some daemon hammers on them... We now have jump infantry with assault 2 weapons and str 8 (or 10) force weapons. Not something I'd want to face often.

Strike squads... Well you can decide... Swords don't give the +1 invuln in CC if you don't have an invuln to start with so if price isn't an issue I'd swap them... psycannon is cool but is 24"... So mechanization is a must have to strike squads I fear, but then again, they're only slightly more priced than standard marines, and come with stormbolters and force weapons.

In fact I think the most flashy units will be the less effective in this codex... For example I think I'd rather take a riflemen dread that for 5? 10? points more than the standard dread grants aoe protection from psykers, is "immune" to shaken and stunned and fires 4 twin linked str 8 shots per round (psybolt ammo costs only 5 points on vehicles) rather than taking the dreadknight... The weapon options aren't all that sexy (again, the psycannon is range 24 and now is a blast too, although large). Perhaps keeping it naked is the best option.

The only thing that boggles me a little is the psychic power for the purgation squads... At most you have 24" range... I wonder how likely it is for a squad to be completely out of los inside that range... I guess it can be used to avoid worse cover throws, but it's a 4+ already...

I'll be using them as a big hammer. A big linebreaking hammer.

I pressed edit and it posted another post >_<

Anyway... I was wondering... If there's no specific wording against models firing from inside a vehicle in the base manual, perhaps just saying something like "they can't see their target -> they can't fire", then in theory you could use astral aim to fire from inside a, say, land raider... lol

There is specific wording.


...and seriously, wtf. GK got seriously hit by the nerfbat here. This is stupid and ridiculous. I cant believe they put the prices for halberds up, removed falchions rerolling to wound, removed nemesis swords giving an INV to PAGK, made ghost knights cost the normal about, lose stealth, but be worse to begin with (They disappear whem mordrack dies) thats just stupid. I will send a NORMAL squad of termies with mordrack in that case!

Im annoyed. The codex already has overpriced units pointswise, now they make them worse?

Grrrrr.

They're hardly "worse". They were amazing, they're still vastly better than most others.

They will be my scoring units...Interceptors are my CC oriented squads.

The more I look, the more fun interceptors look. Especially given a mix of halberds and falchions. Hell, given a squad full of halberds, there's a good chance they won't even strike back.

well, 2 attacks from interceptors on charge. So 20 attacks, half hit so 10, half wound ( or 7 with hammerhand) so we have 7 dead tactical marines mathhammer wise in the best possible scenario. Which is actually a very good toll on them. They wont kill back next round, and they are easily wiped by the last 10 attacks from the GK. Not to mention they probably got hit by 20 storm bolters first.


Although interceptors are vastly more expensive than tacticals, their efficiency means they will be able to kill their points back and more rather easily.

Jaon wrote:well, 2 attacks from interceptors on charge. So 20 attacks, half hit so 10, half wound ( or 7 with hammerhand) so we have 7 dead tactical marines mathhammer wise in the best possible scenario. Which is actually a very good toll on them. They wont kill back next round, and they are easily wiped by the last 10 attacks from the GK. Not to mention they probably got hit by 20 storm bolters first.


Although interceptors are vastly more expensive than tacticals, their efficiency means they will be able to kill their points back and more rather easily.

Yes I'm thinking something like this as well... PA choices seem much more balanced point wise than terminators and some of the characters... Probably getting a standard gkgm instead of a char is the best thing to do... The librarian while powerful seems quite an easy target and so I don't know if it's worth putting points in it. It appears they nerfed the JOTWW template too... Doesn't say "removed from play" anymore but removed as a casualty... Not sure if this is blocked by EW, the wording isn't all that clear.

"removed as a casualty" is not "instant death." Eternal Warrior (page 74) only ignores the "instant death" rule.

Models that suffer "instant death" are removed as casualties (page 26), but models that are removed as casualties don't always suffer "instant death." If it doesn't specifically say "instant death," Eternal Warrior does not protect against it.

In other words, it still skirts around eternal warrior.

Fafnir wrote:"removed as a casualty" is not "instant death." Eternal Warrior (page 74) only ignores the "instant death" rule.

Models that suffer "instant death" are removed as casualties (page 26), but models that are removed as casualties don't always suffer "instant death." If it doesn't specifically say "instant death," Eternal Warrior does not protect against it.

In other words, it still skirts around eternal warrior.

Uhm good then... It is worded in such a way though that it can't be used for sniping models like JOTWW ("For every test that is failed, one model is removed as a casualty"). And IIRC the leaked version, it changed from a str check to an ini check like jotww, which is probably an improvement.

Hey, first Post!

I think purifiers or paladins will replace terminators as the hardest hitting units in the Grey Knights list.

Personally, I'm embracing the small and elite characteristics of the army and going for two squads of paladins backed up by two strike squads with razorbacks and Draigo to make every unit in the army scoring. I haven't decided on the wargear yet and probably won't until i get my codex...
I'm also quite limited because I'm using my old models, which i love, so mostly halberds will be a must.

It would seem Termis are made to squat on objectives, hence, I'll be giving them swords to make them even better at objective-squatting.

Cerebrium wrote:It would seem Termis are made to squat on objectives, hence, I'll be giving them swords to make them even better at objective-squatting.

Hm not sure I agree... The lack of 3++ save and/or long range weaponry doesn't seem to work well with "sitting in the same spot for a long time". Low ap weapons with long range (well, anything > 24" can be fired at them without fear of reprisal and they're still not exactly cheap to be lost that way...

At least if they're in melee with something they only get hit by the tied unit... But honestly I don't see MUCH use for them... Perhaps as a way to soak wounds for an IC but... Just that I think