Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I think I got this one already figured out but I wanted to make sure I got it 100%.

Under the BRB, you can only ever re-roll anything once. So ork's who have the boss pole can only re-roll a morale test once, right?


Thanks.

That is correct, one re-roll.

Every time your orks have to test on their leadership, you may reroll it once by dealing a wound to another ork than the carrier of the bosspole.

I have always played it where I have taken multiple re-rolls and have gone so far as to widdled my unit down to just the Nob in a single turn. I dont claim to know which way is truely right but this is how I've intrupreted it.

The bosspole entry in the ork codex says "each time a unit with a bosspole failes a moral test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit in order to reroll that moral test". If a subsequent re-roll of failed moral test is considered a seperate and unique moral test from the first I would never actually be re-roling on the very first moral check any more than one time, mearly re-rolling the previously re-rolled failed moral check. This is in contrast to, say, the Twin-linked entry where it simply says "you may re-roll the dice to hit if you miss".

Page 2, BRB: wrote:
No single dice can be rerolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll. If you re-roll a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So you get one use of Bosspole per morale check. And each check is not independent, if it is from the same original source.

I.e. your squad loses 10 of 20 orks. You roll morale and fail. You bosspole and fail. You cannot re-roll again as both rolls were due to the 50% casualties you incurred.

And, for a somewhat humorous result, sometimes a bosspole use can trigger another bosspole use on a new moral check.

Example:
Your orks are in CC and make been beaten. They took heavy casualties and are reduced to 4 models. You've lost the CC, so you have to make a moral check, which you fail. You activate the bosspole, pass the re-roll, and fail the armor save of your sacrificial ork.

You've now taken 25% casualties, and at the end of the assault phase, have to take another moral check. If you fail this one, you can use the bosspole again and kill another ork.

pretre wrote:

Page 2, BRB: wrote:
No single dice can be rerolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll. If you re-roll a 2d6 or 3d6 roll, you must re-roll all of the dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting you the re-roll explicitly specifies otherwise.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So you get one use of Bosspole per morale check. And each check is not independent, if it is from the same original source.

I.e. your squad loses 10 of 20 orks. You roll morale and fail. You bosspole and fail. You cannot re-roll again as both rolls were due to the 50% casualties you incurred.

Then it seems to me that the BRB and Ork codex are in contridiction. To me, "Each time you fail a moral test" includes the subsequent re-rolls and is not exclusive to the first moral test allowing you to reroll that specific failure if you take a wound. Were it worded something like Twin-linked "you may re-roll the dice if you fail a moral check but must take a wound to do so" I dont think there would be grounds for debate.

You only get one re-roll as to what the BRB states.

"No single dice can be rerolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll. "

You are re-rolling that morale test more than once. That is specifically prohibited.

It is the same as a Commissar in IG that says 'Each time you fail one, shoot a guy and re-roll'. You only get to shoot one guy and re-roll once.

pretre wrote:"No single dice can be rerolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll. "

You are re-rolling that morale test more than once. That is specifically prohibited.

Im not disputing what the BRB states, its very clear. Im inturpreting what the Ork codex states. So ignoring what the BRB says about re-rolls for a sec, based purely on the bosspole entry, would you all agree that you could re-roll untill you pass or run out of Orks?

Globzog wrote:

pretre wrote:"No single dice can be rerolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll. "

You are re-rolling that morale test more than once. That is specifically prohibited.

Im not disputing what the BRB states, its very clear. Im inturpreting what the Ork codex states. So ignoring what the BRB says about re-rolls for a sec, based purely on the bosspole entry, would you all agree that you could re-roll untill you pass or run out of Orks?

The answer to that is yes, of course. But, it's a moot point, as the BRB restricts this to a single re-roll.

If 6th edition comes out and removes this restriction, you can shoot all the Boyz you want to re-roll forever. But, as long as we're stuck in 5th, you only get the one.

What Grakmar said.

You can't ignore the BRB since the Codex does not overrule the specific reroll rule.

Remember specific overrules general and the Ork rule is more general in this respect than the BRB.

I think they are about as equaly specific and might even be that the BRB is slightly less specific. In fact, where I play Codex always trumps BRB when they are in direct conflict.

Codex vs BRB is really general vs specific. See P74 BRB.

You are welcome to play it however you want with your local gaming group, but I think you will find that if you play with a larger audience the accepted interpretation would be that you only ever get one re-roll, regardless of source.

I also concur with the majority of the replies here. One time per moral check.

I also think the vision of the Nob beating all the other Orks who are running away is hilarious until its just him left.

Hey, I play foot guard with blobs. I would love to be able to keep executing guys until I pass.

Globzog wrote:I think they are about as equaly specific and might even be that the BRB is slightly less specific. In fact, where I play Codex always trumps BRB when they are in direct conflict.

The BRB is more specific: the Ork codex would have to specifically allow you to reroll a reroll for you to be able to overrule the BRB

For an example of how specific this should be: have a look at the Warriors of Chaos Armybook, and the CHosen special rule. This SPECIALLY states tehy may reroll more than once, if they get a 2 / 7 result on the Eye of the Gods table.

You get ONE reroll and ONE only with the bosspole, and nothing more.

I think the problem is that your fundamental premise is flawed:

Globzog wrote:If a subsequent re-roll of failed moral test is considered a seperate and unique moral test from the first I would never actually be re-roling on the very first moral check any more than one time, mearly re-rolling the previously re-rolled failed moral check.

The reroll ISN'T considered a separate and unique moral test, otherwise there would have been both: a discrete cause of the secondary roll and the consequences for the initial roll. It simply replaces the results of the first roll for the one and only test made.

Normally it's:
>25% casualties -> morale -> stand ground or break

With a reroll, it's:
>25% casualties -> morale -> stand ground or reroll with 1 wound -> stand ground or break

What you suggest would be
>25% casualties -> morale -> stand ground or MORALE with 1 wound -> stand ground or MORALE with 1 wound -> stand ground or MORALE with 1 wound -> stand ground or MORALE with 1 wound... so on.

You wouldn't want that anyway, because if each one WAS a discrete roll then once you failed the first one, you'd fail no matter how many additional rolls you made.

Grakmar wrote:And, for a somewhat humorous result, sometimes a bosspole use can trigger another bosspole use on a new moral check.

Example:
Your orks are in CC and make been beaten. They took heavy casualties and are reduced to 4 models. You've lost the CC, so you have to make a moral check, which you fail. You activate the bosspole, pass the re-roll, and fail the armor save of your sacrificial ork.

You've now taken 25% casualties, and at the end of the assault phase, have to take another moral check. If you fail this one, you can use the bosspole again and kill another ork.

This is untrue, as you only test once for every unit at the end of any given phase

Jidmah wrote:

Grakmar wrote:And, for a somewhat humorous result, sometimes a bosspole use can trigger another bosspole use on a new moral check.

Example:
Your orks are in CC and make been beaten. They took heavy casualties and are reduced to 4 models. You've lost the CC, so you have to make a moral check, which you fail. You activate the bosspole, pass the re-roll, and fail the armor save of your sacrificial ork.

You've now taken 25% casualties, and at the end of the assault phase, have to take another moral check. If you fail this one, you can use the bosspole again and kill another ork.

This is untrue, as you only test once for every unit at the end of any given phase

You only test once for 25% casualties.

But, you can test for combat resolution for loosing the assault, and that test can trigger a 25% casualties test at the end of the phase.

Ork codex and brb contridict one another, according to the GW fella's at Warhammer World 40K doubles tournament its 'as written' in the Ork Codex until the Codex changes.

As far as I could tell all the Ork players where playing it this way.

So keep testing to the Nob no longer has a boy to krump and legs it, or the squad passes.

Once again, another item that needs an addition to the Ork faq to solve any arguements.

Umm. Judges at a tourney, even an 'official' one, don't really add to the debate.

Agreed that it couldn't hurt to be added to the FAQ, but the BRB is kind of clear on this and the codex does not overrule the 'only one re-roll rule'.

Were they allowing commissars to keep shooting guys? Or Regimental Standards to allow you to keep re-rolling until you succeeded?

Similar wording for the Standard in the IG Codex,
"any friendly units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests"
to the Ork Codex
"Each time a unit with a bosspole fails a morale test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit in order to re-roll that morale test."

I am happy to pay 15 points in a guard army for a 12" fearless bubble.

Difference would be the 'Each time' in my book.

Why? If you use the same logic for them, they both work (even though I think neither work that way in reality).

For the orks, each time they fail a morale test, they get to reroll it if it fails by killing another boy.

For the guard, if they fail a test, they get to use the banner since they reroll all failed morale tests and the reroll was a failed morale test as well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is specifically why they have a rule in the BRB to prevent re-rolling more than once.

The Nobz always worked the previous way, it was faq'd that way in the last edition if I remember right.

Need to check my old Ork faq.

Regardless its still the funniest thing to watch of the battlefield, a Nob hacking his own unit apart.

Heh. I'll be happy if you prove me wrong, since I'm starting an ork biker army.

Tell me what you find.

'How many rolls can a bosspole reroll if a bosspole can reroll rerolls???

One for every woodchuck

Grakmar - incorrect. Units in Combat do not take Morale checks, so while in combat you cannot cause two tests.

The BRB and codex do NOT CONTRADICT eachother. The Ork codex does not, in anyway, override the "you may NEVER roll a reroll", as it does not specify that it does.

pretre wrote:Heh. I'll be happy if you prove me wrong, since I'm starting an ork biker army.

Tell me what you find.

Nothing.

So I checked with my mate, as I remembered we wheren't using it that way ourselves until a year or so back.

Basically I think it might have been that way in 5th, not sure. Although it seems we where alerted to it by Ork players (who where playing CSM/Daemons) at the 2010 40K Doubles tournie. So we started playing it that way when we got back. I have a vague recolection of a thread here on Dakka with Gwar, but I'm not 100%

Regrardless it seems we've only been doing it that way ourselves since Jan 2010.

Looking at it now, I think either those Ork players where wrong, or the new rule in the brb has put an end to it.

Eitherway, sadly Nobz munching through their own unit would seem to be no more.