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So here is the situation: my unit of 4 tyranid warriors are in combat with a unit of grey knights which all have force weapons, and I take 4-5 wounds from their attacks. Does this mean that each model will receive a wound and he can activate his force weapons to kill every one of them?

Assuming it is the new GK: yes, that is exactly what it means. EVERY attack made after they activate the power will cause ID.

I know :( But I was particularly wondering if say they inflicted 4 wounds, they would kill 1 from the wounds, and then could kill the other that's taken a wound with a successful psychic test, rather than every one of them

You roll to wound with the first one, then activate your Force Weapons, then all the wounds inflict ID. You then need to assign the Wounds to your dudes, an ID wound on each model, killing them all.

That's effing disgusting, how can anyone say that's even slightly balanced? :\

Aramoro wrote:You roll to wound with the first one, then activate your Force Weapons, then all the wounds inflict ID. You then need to assign the Wounds to your dudes, an ID wound on each model, killing them all.

Zoot wrote:I know :( But I was particularly wondering if say they inflicted 4 wounds, they would kill 1 from the wounds, and then could kill the other that's taken a wound with a successful psychic test, rather than every one of them

As soon as they inflict a wound, they can activate the FW. Each wound then inflicts instant death. Think of it then being 4 power fists on your squad of 4 warriors - it would wipe all 4 out, you cannot allocate the 4 wounds onto the single guy, ID and casualty removal doesnt allow you to do that

And as for balanced? Dont throw warriors into a fight with GK, or if you do give them lash whip and bonesword - they will then carve the GK apart with no issues.

Thank you so much for suggesting the lash whip, I had completely forgotten.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Zoot wrote:I know :( But I was particularly wondering if say they inflicted 4 wounds, they would kill 1 from the wounds, and then could kill the other that's taken a wound with a successful psychic test, rather than every one of them

As soon as they inflict a wound, they can activate the FW. Each wound then inflicts instant death. Think of it then being 4 power fists on your squad of 4 warriors - it would wipe all 4 out, you cannot allocate the 4 wounds onto the single guy, ID and casualty removal doesnt allow you to do that

And as for balanced? Dont throw warriors into a fight with GK, or if you do give them lash whip and bonesword - they will then carve the GK apart with no issues.

Is there a rule in the GK codex permitting their force weapons to be used against more than one opponent?

Yes. Very specific rule that makes *all* their attacks ID causing.

Yes, the Nemesis Force Weapons boxout on the Wargear page tells you how it works.

Hmm I am getting conflicting answers from two different forums, one says that because they're all identical you can't give each one a wound and it's not the same as say taking a strength 8 wound because they're just ordinary power weapons until activated and are activated after wounds have been inflicted so you can't tell if they're going to inflict instant death or not. They say that one would take 3 wounds and die and another would take 1 wound, which could be killed by a psychic test (kinda like how you can't spread wounds out on nobz if they're all the same to prevent casualties)

In the case the models are not identical - you need to assign the wounds so if you cause enough to 'wrap' every model in a NFW wound and activate the NFW successfully the Tyranid unit is wiped.

In the case they are identical and you activate the NFW successfully your opponent is obligated to remove complete models if possible for the wounds that cause ID. This is clearly stated under the Instant Death rules on pg. 26.

Zoot wrote:Hmm I am getting conflicting answers from two different forums, one says that because they're all identical you can't give each one a wound and it's not the same as say taking a strength 8 wound because they're just ordinary power weapons until activated and are activated after wounds have been inflicted so you can't tell if they're going to inflict instant death or not. They say that one would take 3 wounds and die and another would take 1 wound, which could be killed by a psychic test (kinda like how you can't spread wounds out on nobz if they're all the same to prevent casualties)

I would appreciate comment on this too...

p50 Force Weapons: appears to be used after wound allocation, so you don't know if a wound causes ID until they've been allocated, in which case the p26 rules for multi-wound units (para 4) would mean you allocate to one model until they are dead within identical groups, so the FW would only kill off part-wounded models (and not one model per wound).

Wound allocation has you assign a wound to each model, then test for instant death. You remove whole like models, but you still have to allocate 1 hit to each model before you put a 2nd on one. That's why the instant death hits will kill a whole model each.

It's down to that unsaved wounds definition again.

After the first unsaved wound is caused, you test your NFW if you succeed all your unsaved wounds now cause instant death. You then assign each unsaved ID death to models within the wound group who failed the saves.

For example say you had 2 wounds groups A and B, A has 2 models and B has 3 models. Wound are assigned 2 to A and 4 to B, both wound groups then take their saves. A fails 1 and B fails all 4 say. The first unsaved wound causes you to test your NFW and see if they become ID wounds. If they do you then assign those wounds to models who failed the saves as per the rules, so 1 Model in Group A would die and all 3 in Group B.

Remember there is a difference between allocating wounds and removing casualties... (casualties are removed from the specified wound allocation group with the following caveat)

The ID rules require you to remove whole models in a wound allocation group where possible, pg 26, for wounds that would cause ID. This means you start picking up whole warriors for each active NFW wound that was caused. If there are 4 wounds and 4 warriors, all 4 warriors get picked up.

Warriors have to be identical, or at most one different (from memory)

You allocate wounds, but you then GROUP wounds into groups of models identical in gaming terms. After you hav e done this you start to remove wounds (and models, as required) when they are unsaved. Here, ID kicks in and removes whole models for each unsaved wound.

So if you have 4 identical warriors, you have at least 4 unsaved wounds then the squad will be wiped assuming they pass their leadership test.

Even with having 1 different it won't be possible to overload the single guy sadly as he can't get another wound assigned to him till everyone in the other group has 1 assigned.

If that's true, that's utterly disgusting :

Rest of this post has been removed. Please don't use that term in such a manner on Dakka.

No, it really isnt disgusting.

A unit of TH/SS terminators will ALREADY do this to you, and for cheaper than GKT.

Aramoro wrote:Yes, the Nemesis Force Weapons boxout on the Wargear page tells you how it works.

Yeah, but GK are like Tau to me... never played them, and don't have their codex (yet) :|

Jidmah wrote:

Aramoro wrote:Yes, the Nemesis Force Weapons boxout on the Wargear page tells you how it works.

Yeah, but GK are like Tau to me... never played them, and don't have their codex (yet) :|

Just go to the Website That Must Not Be Named and look at it there.

Hmm... actually the rule is if all models are identical, roll saves, then assign wounds. Once the number of unsave wounds is determined, you remove whole models.... not assign wounds to each.... so...
4 identical Tyranid Warriors take 4 wounds and fail 4 saves, then 2 warriors would be removed.

Of course, the rule further states that any unsaved wound that would cause ID should be assigned, where possible, to an unwounded model....

So yeah.... 4 unsaved NFW wounds equals 4 dead warriors....

Of course the nid warriors don't get any saves because they are power weapons.

The force weapons are on their common 20 point per model troops

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, it really isnt disgusting.

A unit of TH/SS terminators will ALREADY do this to you, and for cheaper than GKT.

And? Those 20ppm troops that go down to shooting as easily as their 1/3rd less cost standard SM?

It isnt overpowered. They pay a LOT for GK-wide FW. A LOT.

Damn this makes me want to get my Adeptus Custodes out!

Zoot wrote:The force weapons are on their common 20 point per model troops

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, it really isnt disgusting.

A unit of TH/SS terminators will ALREADY do this to you, and for cheaper than GKT.

Check their army lists... you might have more gaunts than they have models...

It seems quirky, yes, as you need an unsaved wound to be able to make the psychic test, and unsaved wounds are indeed after wound allocation and saves are done. But on the other hand, if you have different Initiative values in the squad, you take the test after the first unsaved wounds have been caused. All wounds caused from there on inflict Instant Death before allocation it seems.

So, say you have the following Purifier squad, which seems like a popular build:
Knight of the Flame with Daemonhammer
5 Purifiers with Halberds
4 Purifiers with Psycannons/Incinerators/Psilencers

Now, this squad attacks a unit of 10 equally equipped multiwound T5 models, which have 3 wounds each. We'll disregard wounds inflicted by this squad for this example.
The Purifiers with the Halberds strike first, and after their To Hit and To Wound (and possible invulnerable saves), they managed to inflict 7 wounds. As these are yet to be activated, the opposing player removes 2 models and places the remaining wound on one of the remaining models. The Purifiers take a psychic test to activate their Nemesis weapons, which they pass. The model which has a wound on him now suffers Instant Death and is removed.
The 4 purifiers with the heavy ranged weapons strike next, and manage to inflict another 2 wounds after armour saves. These are put on a model.
Finally the Knight of the Flame swings his Daemonhammer and manages to inflict two wounds. As the Nemesis weapons are already activated, both wounds inflict Instant Death, and the opposing player has to remove 2 unwounded models.

So in total 5 models are killed, and one is left with one wound remaining. If the squad of multiwound models were all equiped differently, they would have 9 casualties.

Yay for finally something that better against unique equipped multi-wound models I guess?

Force weapons do not cause ID wounds.

They can cause ID after a model is wounded.