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... If fired at a vehicle the shot has an Armour Penetration of 4D6

The way I read the Vindicare TP round, it can be interpreted a few different ways. I wanted to see how dakka plays it:

1) 3 + 4D6 + rending if one die rolls a 6
2) 3 + 4D6 + rending on each die that rolls a 6
3) 3 + 4D6
4) 4D6 only
5)??? Other???

Thank you.

I would say 3 + 4D6 w/rending.

The Exitus is a sniper rifle (which are all considered S3 vs vehicles, rending and pinning) and the Turbo-Penetrator specifies 4D6 on the armor penetration roll (as opposed to a normal 1D6).

Oh but don't forget AP1. Pretty nasty.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:I would say 3 + 4D6 w/rending.

The Exitus is a sniper rifle (which are all considered S3 vs vehicles, rending and pinning) and the Turbo-Penetrator specifies 4D6 on the armor penetration roll (as opposed to a normal 1D6).

Oh but don't forget AP1. Pretty nasty.

DoW

I agree with this; sniper rifles of all kinds are always strength 3 against vehicles plus rending etc, so this is simply 3+4D6+rending.

Then the next question is single rending or multi-rending?

I ask because I believe in the previous version the vindicare TP round received rending per 6 rolled on 3D6.

Surely it's a moot point though as you're already at 17 if you've rolled 2 6's. (3 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1)

Bye bye Land Raider.

From GW FAQ:

Q: How does a monstrous creatureʼs 2D6 roll for armour penetration in close combat work if the creatureʼs Attacks have the Rending rule as well? (p31)
A: The player gets to add a D3 to the total for each dice that comes up with a 6. So, if either of the two dice is a six, the total penetration roll will be 2D6+D3+S; if both were 6s, the total would be 12+2D3+S (which you donʼt need to roll anyway, as it is more than enough to penetrate the thickest armour!).

# 2, St 3 for sniper, 4d6 for the penetrator, and rending for each and every die that rolls a 6.

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just pointing out, as does the FAQ, that on 2 6's the rending rolls are not needed at you've already pierced the thickest armour.

No worries Etharin, I just posted the FAQ, to further the discussion.

It will never add 3. It says it's 4d6 for penetration. That's a rule that will replace any normal penetration roll it would have had.

3+4D6, as that replaces the normal armour penetration of D6

Here's a question... does Rending over rider the normal AP of the weapon? A Rending shot technically counts as AP2.

armbarred wrote:Here's a question... does Rending over rider the normal AP of the weapon? A Rending shot technically counts as AP2.

Rending ignores armor, not counts as ap 2.

Pg 31 disagrees with you. "...and counts as AP 2." However, it specifically states when you roll to wound. So I would imagine, by that silly RAW thing, that it keeps its original AP vs vehicles.

DarknessEternal wrote:It will never add 3. It says it's 4d6 for penetration. That's a rule that will replace any normal penetration roll it would have had.

It also says Sniper, which makes it ST 3...............

don_mondo wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:It will never add 3. It says it's 4d6 for penetration. That's a rule that will replace any normal penetration roll it would have had.

It also says Sniper, which makes it ST 3...............

So it can be a stregth 3 attack that uses 4d6 instead of the normal rules?

IMO, yes, it gets ST 3 + 4d6 + plus rending for every die taht rolls a 6. IMO, the 4d6 replaces the normal 1d6 armor penetration, and does not negate any other portions of the formula.

In CC rending attacks ignore armor, for shooting they count as AP 2.

don_mondo wrote: IMO, the 4d6 replaces the normal 1d6 armor penetration, and does not negate any other portions of the formula.

I have not read it.

If it actually says that, cheers.

IIRC, it just says that the penetrator round gets 4d6 armor penetration. At work so can't look to see the exact wording, but that's my take on it from reading it.

armbarred wrote:Here's a question... does Rending over rider the normal AP of the weapon? A Rending shot technically counts as AP2.

Technically I guess you could say in that situation it counts as AP1 and AP2.

It does seem strange though, I wager that's something that will be FAQ'd.

DoW

"A turbo-penetrator shot has an Armor Penetration of 4d6."

This doesn't leave any room to add 3 for the supposed strength of a Sniper weapon. That statement replaces any typical penetration it may have received.

Read the codex. It says it has an AP value of 4D6. No other bonuses or penalties apply. Monoliths are a questionale issue that will hopefully be touched upon in the FAQ (which looks like it'll probably be about as long as the codex itself).

DarknessEternal wrote:"A turbo-penetrator shot has an Armor Penetration of 4d6."

This doesn't leave any room to add 3 for the supposed strength of a Sniper weapon. That statement replaces any typical penetration it may have received.

Course, the main rules seem to reference the die roll as the armor penetration part of the formula.

page 70, ARMOUR PENETRATION
Once a hit has been scored on a vehicle, roll a D6 and add the weapon’s Strength to it, comparing this total with the Armour Value of the appropriate facing of the vehicle.

Seriously, look at the Ordnance example. Or are you saying that Ordnance weapons only get their 2d6 take the highest and don't get to add the strength of the weapon?

a normal weapon always has it's Str plus a single D6 roll for Armor Penetration


the Turbo Penetrator round sasy that the rifle rolls 4d6 for Armor Penetration


you get 3+4d6 with all 6s giving an additional D3(not that its needed on an average roll, although if you roll 3 1s and 1 6 it will be important)

don_mondo wrote:Seriously, look at the Ordnance example. Or are you saying that Ordnance weapons only get their 2d6 take the highest and don't get to add the strength of the weapon?

Actually, when I look it up it seems to show that it should be 4d6. No +3

They are not worded the same.

but it doesn't say that it removes the benifit of being a sniper rifle.


because it doesn't say you don't use the sniper benifit then, as the rule set is permissive, you get to use it.

I agree just 4d6.

Pg 60 states:

"Armor Penetration

Hitting a vehicle is no guarantee that you will actually damage it. Once a hit has been scored on a vehicle, roll a D6 and add the weapons Strength to it, comparing this total with the Armor Value of the appropriate facing of the vehicle"

This rule seems to indicate that the Strength and the D6 together are the Armor Penetration.

The turbo penetrator states its armor pen is 4D6. So no Strength bonus as the particular rule for the turbo shot over rides the usual rule of adding Strength plus D6.

I am not sure about the rending interaction though the Tyranid FAQ does set a precedent that any roll of 6 on the 4D6 would rend.

As a side note, The Monstrous Creature rule specifically states Str +2D6.

Grey Templar wrote:but it doesn't say that it removes the benifit of being a sniper rifle.


because it doesn't say you don't use the sniper benifit then, as the rule set is permissive, you get to use it.

So you get rending on 6s.

The special rule for the turbo-penatrators used with a sniper rifle are more specific that general use of a sniper rifle.

but it doesn't say it doesn't also use the general sniper rules.

because they aren't mutually exclusive and it doesn't explicity say you don't get them, then by default you get to use them.


a Dreadnought has smoke launchers.

if Smoke Launchers are triggered in the movement phase the Dreadnought may not shoot as Smoke forbids it.

a Dred can also run in the shooting phase if it doesn't shoot any guns.

however, these 2 rules are not mutually exclusive even though they both require the dred to give up its shooting.

the Dred can pop smoke and then run in the shooting phase.


similerly, the Dred could also pop smoke if it was shaken. it can't shoot. just because a item requires you to give up an action doesn't mean you would have had to be able to perform that action in the first place.