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I am starting a High Elf army soon. Since our local meta game consists of very competitive lists (double Hydra, Slann with Temple Guard etc.) I am probably going to be using Teclis. Teclis is obviously very strong in the Magic Phase (both your own and your opponent's), however I am a bit worried about his survivability. These are the strategies that worry me most:

-Character sniping spells. Dwellers Below being the most dangerous. However, the Lore of Death sniping spells are troublesome as well. Obviously, Teclis' +D3 Dispel Dice, +5 to Dispel attempts and Scroll of Hoeth will partially mitigate this issue. Is this enough, or do you need a BSB with the Banner of World Dragon?

-Suicide charges. This is partially mitigated by joining a unit which will strike hard, as they might deny the enemy the ability to attack Teclis. Having a Champion (or another Character) in the unit to challenge a lone Character can be useful as well (for example: Dark Pegasus Dreadlord). I don't think joining 2 Nobles to Teclis' unit (to be able to put Teclis on the second rank) is really necessary. What do you guys think about this?


So, to counter suicide charges, Teclis will need to be in a unit that is capable of dealing a fair amount of damage in close combat. The obvious problem is, what unit does Teclis join when combat is upon his main unit? This is the most difficult question to me, as Archers seem pretty vulnerable to most harassment units. Shadow Warriors are another option, but the safe positions for the Shadow Warriors are usually hard to reach with regular movement of Teclis. How do you guys (or your opponents) generally safe Teclis when his main unit is going to be in combat?

I am going to mess around in 'Ard Boyz this year, and I have decided not to take Teclis after all.

I think I can make a competitive list without him. I think he costs way to much in points to include him. You are not only paying for Teclis, but also paying for another unit and magical items to protect him, easily spending another 300-500 points on a unit that should never see combat.

In a 3,000 point game you can end up spending close to 1,000 points on Teclis (475 for him alone, then a noble BSB with BotWD, then a unit of Phoenix Guard). Yes he is a great offensive tool, but to include this one offensive tool you have to dedicate 1/3 of your army to protecting him.

I will play around with Archmage/Level 2 combo. They might die just as easily as Teclis, but I think people will focus on them a lot less than on Teclis. People will just hone in on old moon hat...

I personally would take teclis if I were playinga HE army for 'ard boyz. would be in either my PG or LSG.

However. BotWD is pretty sweet combo but expensive. With my DOC list, I think I would put skulltaker in my bloodletters, and charge them, skulltaker fights challange other hero allocates on teclis. Either way all attacks are KB.

Acardia wrote:I personally would take teclis if I were playinga HE army for 'ard boyz. would be in either my PG or LSG.

However. BotWD is pretty sweet combo but expensive. With my DOC list, I think I would put skulltaker in my bloodletters, and charge them, skulltaker fights challange other hero allocates on teclis. Either way all attacks are KB.

And this is a perfect example of why I am not taking Teclis. My best bet would be to stick him in a unit of PG, add the BSB with the BotWD (which also means Teclis can't buff his own unit), and ideally I would stick a second noble in the unit to push Teclis in the second rank.

Teclis might only cost 475 points, but IMO if you include Teclis in an army, especially at a level such as 'Ard Boyz, you will spend 1000 points on him. And you spend that 1000 points on something to keep out of combat, instead of spending 400 points on a Lv 4 & Lv 2 that won't have near as big a target on their head, leaving another 600 points to spend on an offensive unit.

Just to clarify, this thread is meant to be about methods to protect Teclis, not whether you should take Teclis at all. Please share methods of protecting Teclis you use (or your opponents use). If you want to talk about something else, please create your own thread.

Sorry about the OT:

But it also has my recommendation about how to protect him as well:

Stick him in a unit of Phoenix Guard (I think the common rule of thumb is between 10-20 strong, the more bodies, the longer Teclis can last). They will be your basic meat shield. Some folks stick him with spears or archers; which have less staying power due to not having the ward save, but can field more bodies. Whatever unit you stick him with should avoid combat.

Bodies and ward saves cannot protect him from magic spells that force him to test on his own stats, such as Dwellers. If your meta includes a lot of magic (which I think it would with Lizardmen as an example), then you need to protect him from that. He is potent at dispelling, gaining extra dice and a very good dispel scroll. But it only takes one enemy spell going of on IF to kill him. So if your opponents run magic heavy, a BSB with BotWD is a must. That will protect your unit from enemy magic, but it will also keep Teclis from being able to target his own unit for buffs. If you take BofWD, your best bet will be offensive magic for Teclis.

Allocation of wounds. Once Teclis and his unit does get into CC, every model in base contact can allocate their attacks against him. Depending on what unit is attacking, he could be facing 9+ hits a turn. Even Skaven slaves could kill him at that rate. To protect him from such fate you ideally need another character to include in the front rank to push Teclis out of CC. By putting a Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, BSB, and Hero/Lord in a 5 wide unit; you force Teclis out of close combat. Keep in mind that if your BSB has the BotWD, he cannot have any magical items, and as such will be the only model in the front rank without a ward save. So most opponents will focus on killing him first, which means that Teclis will have to move to the front.

This seems to be the most common setup you will see in most competitive lists that use Teclis.

@ d-usa

First of all, thank you for the detailed on topic reply. So your general experience is that Teclis needs to stay put in a single unit, and to avoid getting that unit into combat. Do you think it would be possible for Teclis to switch units once the battle line close on eachother. For example, do you think it would work to start Teclis in a unit of White Lions (strong enough to deter / kill suicide chargers in the early game), and then when the combats get close, evacuate Teclis to a unit of Archers or Shadow Warriors?

I was thinking about taking Lore of Shadow on Teclis, as the local meta game has a lot of low initiative Monsters (Pit of Shades), Mindrazor has great synergy with the Spearmen and the Lore of Shadows grants Teclis a method of evacuation (either Steed of Shadows or Smoke and Mirrors).

Airmaniac wrote:Just to clarify, this thread is meant to be about methods to protect Teclis, not whether you should take Teclis at all. Please share methods of protecting Teclis you use (or your opponents use). If you want to talk about something else, please create your own thread.

Agreed, So I shall share this. I was teaching some new guys the last time I played Teclis. They were using a 1/2 skaven 1/2 WOC force and wanted the meanest list with a variety of killythings in it so they could learn rules. Teclis was in a unit of 40 LSG with Carandryn and I'm 99% sure the fire banner. The unit while being a large combat unit was a still effective 6 wide, 7 deep for shooting. Since Teclis took shadow he could warp and swap places with other heros if needed upon successful casting. So I was able to charge the bell unit on turn 4 cast okhams on the unit, swap teclis with my level two who was sitting with the swordmasters who were unengaged next to them, and then cast the level 1 beast spell on the LSG.

Tactic. Take at least 1 lord or hero in every unit. move around. Snipers spells and empire snipers are hard to deal with so avoidance and using eagles/chariots/rbt to silence them are key.

Just remember for all the lore of life lovers out there, banner of the world dragon makes life magic pretty much useless since you cant throne yourself.

I stick him in a unit of 10 PG and I have that unit hug the backside of my PG horde.

I have always seen Teclis in a unit of 20 PG.


watch out for Lore of Death, sniper spells, or anything that forces a T or Str test(Galrauch's breath weapon, Dwellers...)

Grey Templar wrote:I have always seen Teclis in a unit of 20 PG.

Do your opponents who field Teclis usually avoid combat entirely with the Phoenix Guard unit or do they get them involved in combats? If the Phoenix Guard are meant to get involved in combats, what does your opponent usually do with Teclis? Does he stay in the unit or does he leave the unit? If he stays in the unit, does this usually result in a dead Teclis? If he leaves the unit, does he run solo, or does he join another unit?

Grey Templar wrote:watch out for Lore of Death, sniper spells, or anything that forces a T or Str test(Galrauch's breath weapon, Dwellers...)

Most of these can be countered by taking a BSB with the Banner of World Dragon in the unit that Teclis has joined. Would you say this is required, or do you think smart movement of Teclis can avoid a lot of these Spells being cast on him (or use of Scroll of Hoeth on Dwellers)?

BotWD is dependant on what lore Teclis takes.

It pretty much rules out life for him, since he wouldnt be able to throne himself.

In 'ard boyz the best way to protect teclis is a lord with the tower. Amazingly good and incredibly unfair all at the same time

Teclis is more or less totally invincible unless youre facing cracks call or screaming bell

Yup ard boyz, 40ish pheonix guard and teclis and your bsb i the tower, there is no breaking that unit.

Airmaniac wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:I have always seen Teclis in a unit of 20 PG.

Do your opponents who field Teclis usually avoid combat entirely with the Phoenix Guard unit or do they get them involved in combats? If the Phoenix Guard are meant to get involved in combats, what does your opponent usually do with Teclis? Does he stay in the unit or does he leave the unit? If he stays in the unit, does this usually result in a dead Teclis? If he leaves the unit, does he run solo, or does he join another unit?

Grey Templar wrote:watch out for Lore of Death, sniper spells, or anything that forces a T or Str test(Galrauch's breath weapon, Dwellers...)

Most of these can be countered by taking a BSB with the Banner of World Dragon in the unit that Teclis has joined. Would you say this is required, or do you think smart movement of Teclis can avoid a lot of these Spells being cast on him (or use of Scroll of Hoeth on Dwellers)?

he avoids combat with the PG as much as possable.

everytime it gets into CC the PG unit is either way overmatched and both them a Teclis get killed OR they are picking on a weakened unit they can deal with.

any of those items would work, but if the item fails to stop it Teclis is in real trouble.

then you have to wonder if Teclis is worth all this protection you are spending on him.

I'm actually liking the O&G 100 point banner that gives D6 MR AND makes all magic items in contact non-magical.
Phoenix guard don't kill much, and if you shut down that banner, you can hit them with some spells as well.

A T5 2+ save Black Orc BSB should take apart most elf heroes once all magic items are turned off.

Teclis is pretty face-smashing powerful as a caster, so he is going to attract a LOT of attention and your opponent will try his best to kill him.

If you don't want to deal with that, then your best answer is not to take Teclis.

I take Teclis in every tournament I play. I think he's definitely worth it. Just avoid getting him in to combat.

I have honestly gotten to the point where I like seeing teclis hit the table.

If you play it right its the easiest 425 points you can get.

@ ShivanAngel

It's actually 475 points. My main question though: how do you deal with him so easily?

Blood statuette of spite is a nice way.

HoverBoy wrote:Blood statuette of spite is a nice way.

The Blood Statuette of Spite only has a 6/27 chance of killing Teclis? Also, in an open list environment, your opponent will know about the Blood Statuette and can save a Dispel Dice for it. Additionally, I don't think many Lizardmen players take the Blood Statuette in their all comers lists, though I could be wrong here.

I take it all the time, its a great way to finish that character who is almost dead but hiding from your units.

I did the Black Tongue on him.

he miscast earlier and ignored it, then he failed to meet a casting value.


he rolled a 3 on the table and exploded

even though i lost the game i claimed a moral victory because i sent Teclis's soul to Tzeench.

Airmaniac wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:Blood statuette of spite is a nice way.

The Blood Statuette of Spite only has a 6/27 chance of killing Teclis? Also, in an open list environment, your opponent will know about the Blood Statuette and can save a Dispel Dice for it. Additionally, I don't think many Lizardmen players take the Blood Statuette in their all comers lists, though I could be wrong here.

Most people dont take Teclis in an all comers list either... (If they do you found the stores TFG)

If I saw Teclis hit the table in a friendly game I would slap the guy.

There are plenty of ways of dealing with that S2 T2 NO SAVES little guy....

@ ShivanAngel

How is taking Teclis being TFG when, as you claim, he is the easiest 475 points to pick up when played right?

With all comers, I meant no knowledge of which armybook you will face. You make it seem like I'd take Teclis to bash on fluffy army lists, which is not the case. Around here people build the strongest list they can.

When you know the lists are going to be really hard, and can prepare for things like teclis and other crazy characters.

In all comers lists you usually arent prepared for something like that.

I played against a Teclis list last night running Life in a PG block of 30 with Korhil.

It was a secnario 3 of "ard boyz test game. He had marched them up the center and contacted the objective. and kept that unit alive despite massive attacks. (damn secnario range modiver prevented two turns when I was available to charge his unit.)

His level 2 was putting the basic beasts spell on the PG unit as well, making them even more solid. I tried sniping him with a few death spells, and miscast lost the death head's levels on Fateweaver. So on last turn I said screw it, and used wind black to push him off the objective and win. It ended up being a massacare, I couldn't crack that unit. Everything else died though except one eagle that was locked in with a fiend for the past 3 turns.....

I think that the life/beasts idea is a solid mix his other one was the spear which I don't think got cast more than once. I would normally take my level 2 with High Magic. With the banner of sorcery and the moonstaff he was at 12 PD almost every turn.

There isn't anything wrong with taking Teclis. I don't usually take him in a friendly game, but in a tournament there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I think it's funny that he receives so much hate.

DAH