Night Shield question.

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**Shovan**

This came up in a recent game we were playing. The errata says that night shields now effect enemy weapons range instead of just enemy units range. (To a minimum of 6)

My friend who plays Dark Eldar claims that this would also reduce the range of psychic shooting attacks. I say they do not because they are not listed under 'weapons'.

What does the dakka community say?

**Galador**

Actually, in the vehicle armoury, it states enemy units, not enemy weapons, so it will reduce a Psychic shooting attack. PG. 63, Dark Eldar codex.

Edit: I stand corrected, as I just noticed you said FAQ and I read it. It does of course depend on your definition of weapon, but seeing as PSA are done instead of shooting a weapon, I would say yes, but then again, you could say no. However, most shooting weapons have a profile on them , as defined in the BRB on pg. 27. However, your best bet is to roll a D6 on it if its really a big issue.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Personally I would say No it doesnt effect PSA's mainly as you stated there is no "weapon"

**time wizard**

Galador wrote:Act It does of course depend on your definition of weapon, but seeing as PSA are done instead of shooting a weapon, I would say yes, but then again, you could say no.

But the BRB page 50 uder 'Psychic Shooting Attacks' says that, "Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon (an assault weapon unless specified otherwise)." so the difference is that the PSA is not done instead of firing a weapon, it counts as firing one. So night shield should reduce the range of the weapon the psychic shooting attack is using, like any other weapon.

**Galador**

time wizard wrote:
Galador wrote:Act It does of course depend on your definition of weapon, but seeing as PSA are done instead of shooting a weapon, I would say yes, but then again, you could say no.

But the BRB page 50 uder 'Psychic Shooting Attacks' says that, "Using a psychic shooting attack counts as firing a ranged weapon (an assault weapon unless specified otherwise)." so the difference is that the PSA is not done instead of firing a weapon, it counts as firing one. So night shield should reduce the range of the weapon the psychic shooting attack is using, like any other weapon.

I stand corrected then. If it counts as firing a weapon, then night shields will effect it.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Would it effect The Blood Angels Psychic Power, Blood Lance?

**time wizard**

Yes, since it is referred to as a psychic shooting attack.

**Galador**

DaKKaLAnce wrote:Would it effect The Blood Angels Psychic Power, Blood Lance?

yes, because it is a psychic shooting attack. You would roll your 4D6, then, if there was somethign with night shields in the path that you chose for it to go, it would reduce the range for the vehicle with night shields only by 6", but anything else along the line would be effected as normal.

EDIT: ninja'd by time!

**DaKKaLAnce**

So even tho he didnt target me, I can still reduce his range? Dang, That couldve saved me a few nights ago.

**Galador**

it doesn't say anything about targeting, just a unit wishing to fire at the vehicle. eseentially, there is no target for a Blood Lance, the player just picks a direction for it to shoot out. But it is still fired as per a shooting attack, and the night shields does state it reduces the firing range, so yes, it would effect it still, as it counts as firing a weapon.

**Grey Templar**

it wouldn't effect a PSA that didn't have a range or autohits though.

nor would it effect a template weapon.

**Galador**

Grey Templar wrote:it wouldn't effect a PSA that didn't have a range or autohits though.

nor would it effect a template weapon.

This is true, but also remember, it does effect blast and ordnance weapons, as long as they are not Barrage.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Well i dont have my codex with me atm, But doesnt it say you have to Target the vehicle directly? Blood lance isnt really a direct attack. Just a place a line here and whatever is under it takes a Str 8 ap 1 hit.

(not trying to say your wrong, just need to have a good reason/arguement to why i can reduce it by 6", Knowing he would try and tell me I can't, since it isnt targeted)

**Galador**

DaKKaLAnce wrote:Well i dont have my codex with me atm, But doesnt it say you have to Target the vehicle directly? Blood lance isnt really a direct attack. Just a place a line here and whatever is under it takes a Str 8 ap 1 hit.

(not trying to say your wrong, just need to have a good reason/arguement to why i can reduce it by 6", Knowing he would try and tell me I can't, since it isnt targeted)

No, it states any unit wishing to fire at the vehicle with night shields. Normally, that would be targeting, but if all the blood lance does is pick a direction, he is picking the direction it is firing, and your vehicle is in the path, so he wishes to hit the vehicle.

Even if they argue with you that they don't want the vehicle, they want the squad behind it or whatever, the rules of Blood lance state that it hits everything along the line within range, so it is still firing at the vehicle, hence the reduced range.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Alright ill go with that. So now Blood lance wont be as big of a deal.... Thanks for the help!

**time wizard**

Blood lance says that friendly units and units locked in close combat are unaffected and that the lance darts over them before continuing on its course.

Probably the best solution is to apply the same thing to night shield. For example, the blod lance rolls 24". A raider with nightshield is 19" away. Behind the raider is a unit of warriors 23" away from the librarian with the blood lance.

The blood lance is out of range to the raider, but like the other exceptions it can "dart over" the raider and hit the warriors.

Just seems the most logical resolution based on both rules.

**Rymafyr**

Affect! AFFECT! not effect.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Rage?

**somerandomdude**

Except...

Blood Lance doesn't have a range. It creates a line that is 4d6 long, but it has no actual range to reduce. Everything under the line is hit, not because it is "within [4d6]" but because it is under the line.

**Galador**

Ok, and if it rolls 4D6", and its classified as a psychic shooting attack, its range is 4D6", so a max range of 24".

So if you roll 24" and the venom is at 24", then you minus 6" from it to put it at 18".

You minus the range of any weapon, so its just 4D6" minus 6" for nightshields.

**Brother Ramses**

Why do people always disregard, "counts as" as being exactly what whatever is being counted as? A PSA counts as firing a weapon, but still isn't firing a weapon.

A psychic shooting attack counts as firing a weapon. Why? So you can't fire off a regualr shooting attack after.

Night shields apply to weapons, not things that count as weapons, not things that sound like weapons, not things that smell like weapons, just weapons.

PSA counts as firing a weapon, but is still not actually firing a weapon. Night Shields does nothing to it.

**Galador**

So, your really going to tell me that something that counts as, and that acts exactly like firing a weapon, is not a weapon? Yeah, you see how well that flies in a tournament...

**Brother Ramses**

Rune Priest power, Tempest Wrath affects Jump Infantry forcing them to treat all terrain as both difficult and dangerous.

Does Tempest Wrath affect a Hive Tyrant with Wings? Does it affect a Daemon Prince with Wings?

No! They are not Jump Infantry. The both move as Jump Infantry but are not Jump Infantry.

Same applies to Night Shields.

**kirsanth**

If it counts as jump infantry yes. If it moves as jump infantry, no.

That is not quite the same there.

**Corrode**

Grey Templar wrote:it wouldn't effect a PSA that didn't have a range or autohits though.

nor would it effect a template weapon.

It would affect auto hitting weapons - if they're out of range they still automatically miss.

**Grey Templar**

sometimes,

things that require simply LoS will just hit.

**Exergy**

Grey Templar wrote:sometimes,

things that require simply LoS will just hit.

it doesnt affect blood lance as that doesnt have a range, its like a template weapon, where the template is 4d6" long.
other PSA like Doombolt would be affected as they have a range.

**Grey Templar**

I do belive that it doesn't affect the Blood Lance.

**nosferatu1001**

BR - Counts as is fundamentally different from moves as. To compare the two is worse than comparing apples to oranges

Range 4D6" is still a range.

**somerandomdude**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Range 4D6" is still a range.

But that's not the range. If anything its range is "Line".

The 4d6" determines how long the line is, and then everything under the line is affected. Not because it is within a particular range, but because it is under the line.