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1) The Stormraven says that it can carry a single Dreadnought in its rear grapples but i wasn't sure if this was just the standard Dreadnought or can i carry a Venerable one instead?

2) Because its carrying the Dreadnought in its rear grapples does that mean i have to disembark it at the back of the Stormraven or can it disembark normally from any access point?

Thanks.

Which codex?

Grey Knights

Any Dreadnought can fit in the Stormraven, and it can disembark as normal.

DeathReaper wrote:Any Dreadnought can fit in the Stormraven, and it can disembark as normal.

yep any Dreadnaught, so no Venerable, Ironclad(apoc only), Furioso, nor Death Company.

The rule states a Single Dreadnaught, not any single dreadnought/sub-type, nor any other variation that would include anything but the basic unit named: Dreadnaught.


/phallic-hat

While RAW simply states Dreadnaught; RAP allow any Dread subtypes.

The Storm Ravens rules have you treat it's base as an Open-topped transport for Embarkation/Disembarkation purposes.

it's any dreadnought of any type.



for BAs thats regular Dreds, Furiosos, and DC dreds.

GKs thats Venerable and normal.

Yes, KK, any Dreadnought, Death company Dreadnought is a dreadnought, Dread librarian is still a dreadnought.

I know how it is played; but the rules do not state "any" dreadnought.

It states a single Dreadnought.

Does a Venerable Dread have BS+WS 4?

none of the subtypes are the same as a "Dreadnaught"; While it should be fine to go ahead and have any of the Subtypes embark, it is not RAW.

If it has dreadnought in the name it is a dreadnought.

Is an assault marine a marine? Is an executioner a leman russ? Is the Doom of Malan'tai a Zoanthrope?

Sorry for the random examples, but a venerable dread is obviously still a dread.

Yes an assault marine is a Space Marine; just like any unit in the tyranids Codex is a tyranid.

Yes An executioner is a Leman Russ, as it is purchased as part of a "Leman Russ Squadron"

Your Doom of Malan'tai example doesn't even make sense; "Zoanthrope" is not in it's name.

Sharing a portion of a name means nothing, Do I need to call nos into this thread to ask ou if an Assault Cannon is "assault"?

There is a unit with the simple name of "Dreadnaught".
There is a Rule That States "plus a single dreadnaught in it's rear grapples".

Is a Venerable Dread the same unit as a "Dreadnaught"?

No, it isn't. It does not even share a unit entry(armylist area) in any of the Codices, nor a statline, nor do they all even necessarily share an FOC slot(i.e. Troop, Elite, or Heavy Support).

Thing to note is in both dexes, all Dreadnoughts are described on a single page, in a single box, with a simple name and statistic variation. This would imply that even in RAW, they are indeed the same unit just different variations.

In the blood angels codex, page 29, all variants of dreadnought are listed under the main heading or 'Dreadnoughts', implying that each is indeed a dreadnought.

EDIT: MechaEmperor7000 beat me to it, hah.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Thing to note is in both dexes, all Dreadnoughts are described on a single page, in a single box, with a simple name and statistic variation. This would imply that even in RAW, they are indeed the same unit just different variations.

You know what... I'll give you that.

I seriously tried to find a Similar example where Multiple different units where on the same page, and another rule mattered in relation to only 1 of those units(where it was not clearly specified, also on those pages).... and I couldn't.

None of the rest that shared a page mattered.

Although for Apoc games, the ironclad still is not technically a dread, even under these guidelines.

Fridge Brilliance on GW's part. I was curious why they decided to suddenly put all the Dreads in one box.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yes an assault marine is a Space Marine; just like any unit in the tyranids Codex is a tyranid.

Yes An executioner is a Leman Russ, as it is purchased as part of a "Leman Russ Squadron"

Your Doom of Malan'tai example doesn't even make sense; "Zoanthrope" is not in it's name.

Sharing a portion of a name means nothing, Do I need to call nos into this thread to ask ou if an Assault Cannon is "assault"?

There is a unit with the simple name of "Dreadnaught".
There is a Rule That States "plus a single dreadnaught in it's rear grapples".

Is a Venerable Dread the same unit as a "Dreadnaught"?

No, it isn't. It does not even share a unit entry(armylist area) in any of the Codices, nor a statline, nor do they all even necessarily share an FOC slot(i.e. Troop, Elite, or Heavy Support).

Please don't quote things unless you copy them out. They are called dreadnought, not dreadnaught. Also, there is no need to argue about assault cannons, as that is just stupid. Let's just stick to the point.

I get the feeling that arguing my point is useless though, but I'll try. A dreadnought is a certain size and shape, and a venerable dreadnought is almost exactly the same apart from some extra decoration and a more experienced pilot. A grapple that could hold one could easily hold the other, it is not like a dreadknight or something that is completely differently sized. An ironclad is probably not allowed as it is much bigger and heavier though.

I think we are at an impasse, but would you really object if someone put a venerable in a stormraven? It is hardly a super cheaty thing that goes against the spirit of the rules in a massive way. Well, we each play the way we think is right. I do understand your point of view but it is just not how I play. Agree to disagree I suppose.

Honestly, it made sense for the ironclad to get it's own page: We have never seen such a thing until 5th edition, so it's own fluff page was necessary.

Also, as I said before, I would not have any problem with anyone putting an Ironclad in a Storm Raven(obviously only in an Apoc game as the 2 should never be on the same table played by the same player unless it was an Apoc game).

If there was a "C'mon, man!" segment of You Make Da Call, someone arguing that a Venerable Dreadnought is not a Dreadnought would definitely make the cut.

Trickstick wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Yes an assault marine is a Space Marine; just like any unit in the tyranids Codex is a tyranid.

Yes An executioner is a Leman Russ, as it is purchased as part of a "Leman Russ Squadron"

Your Doom of Malan'tai example doesn't even make sense; "Zoanthrope" is not in it's name.

Sharing a portion of a name means nothing, Do I need to call nos into this thread to ask ou if an Assault Cannon is "assault"?

There is a unit with the simple name of "Dreadnaught".
There is a Rule That States "plus a single dreadnaught in it's rear grapples".

Is a Venerable Dread the same unit as a "Dreadnaught"?

No, it isn't. It does not even share a unit entry(armylist area) in any of the Codices, nor a statline, nor do they all even necessarily share an FOC slot(i.e. Troop, Elite, or Heavy Support).

Please don't quote things unless you copy them out. They are called dreadnought, not dreadnaught. Also, there is no need to argue about assault cannons, as that is just stupid. Let's just stick to the point.

I get the feeling that arguing my point is useless though, but I'll try. A dreadnought is a certain size and shape, and a venerable dreadnought is almost exactly the same apart from some extra decoration and a more experienced pilot. A grapple that could hold one could easily hold the other, it is not like a dreadknight or something that is completely differently sized. An ironclad is probably not allowed as it is much bigger and heavier though.

I think we are at an impasse, but would you really object if someone put a venerable in a stormraven? It is hardly a super cheaty thing that goes against the spirit of the rules in a massive way. Well, we each play the way we think is right. I do understand your point of view but it is just not how I play. Agree to disagree I suppose.

While I agree that any Dreadnought should be allowed to be taken in a stormraven, Kel has a point, An "Assault Cannon" Is a heavy weapon yet it has "Assault" In the name. Therefore just because it has something in the name it does not mean that it is what it says. But you can't blame Kel for making this point when you were making similar points about the assault marines and leman russ, and btw your zoanthrope comment makes no sense.

You guys are REALLY cutting hairs here. Can we all agree that a dred is a dred is a dred? I can understand arguing if its a named dred and so on, that can have some merit to it, but a variation of a dred still makes it a dred. I agree with the Cmon man thing

^ All in favour say aye.

Trickstick wrote:If it has dreadnought in the name it is a dreadnought.

Is an assault marine a marine? Is an executioner a leman russ? Is the Doom of Malan'tai a Zoanthrope?

Sorry for the random examples, but a venerable dread is obviously still a dread.

Is A Daemon Prince a Daemon????

Bloodhorror wrote:

Trickstick wrote:If it has dreadnought in the name it is a dreadnought.

Is an assault marine a marine? Is an executioner a leman russ? Is the Doom of Malan'tai a Zoanthrope?

Sorry for the random examples, but a venerable dread is obviously still a dread.

Is A Daemon Prince a Daemon????

Yes, I think that it is. It may not have the rules but it is definitely a daemon. What else could it be, a fish? A chocolate monster? A slightly smelly call centre worker?

Anyway, let's not go off on a tangent, I probably shouldn't have brought up the examples that I did.

No, it is not a daemon. In fluff or rules - unless it is a Chaos Daemons codex Daemon Prince.

Daemon princes are beings who have 'ascended' to daemonhood. Sounds like a daemon to me. I would be kind of shocked if someone said that, say, preferred enemy(daemons) didn't work on a daemon prince; I thought it was pretty intuitive that they are daemons.

THey are a mortal who has been granted daemonic powers. Not the same as a daemon - as it is still the "mortal" as the controlling entity.

I was always under the impression that they had fully ascended to daemonhood, as a gift. They go one step beyond mortals that have simply got some daemon power, such as lower champions and lords.

Isn't being made into a daemon the ultimate prize of chaos worship? I thought that was the point of the princes, to represent those that had succeeded and become daemons without failing and becoming a spawn.

They are granted immortality, but are still the "mortal" controlling themselves. Infection with a daemon results in it controlling you, at least temporarily.

So no, Daemon Princes in the Chaos Marine Codex are NOT daemons. They lack the "daemon" special rule that was created prior to their current codex was written.

I think that I am going off something along the lies of this:

The third fate of the Champion is the one for which all these risks are taken, to which the Champion has dedicated his life to achieving: daemonhood. The Champion is elevated to a Daemon Prince.

This suggests to me that, in the fluff at least, they become full daemons. Also, the Daemon Princes in the daemon codex are the same ones who used to be mortal, they just went of partying with daemons instead.

bushido wrote:If there was a "C'mon, man!" segment of You Make Da Call, someone arguing that a Venerable Dreadnought is not a Dreadnought would definitely make the cut.

This.

Trickstick wrote: Also, the Daemon Princes in the daemon codex are the same ones who used to be mortal, they just went of partying with daemons instead.

Oddly enough, those have the daemon special rule.

/shrug