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Hmmm, just saw the bit about "discarding their mortal form" in the daemons codex. Now I have confused myself, you may be right. This requires a ponder.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack, let's talk about dreadnoughts!

Erm, they are pretty neat and a great alternative to a wheelchair.

Edit: Ok, so I've changed my mind on daemon princes; I didn't realise that there was much difference between the two types. As marine ones have a physical form, they would not be subject to the same kind of instability that ones that manifest themselves do.

nosferatu1001 wrote:They are granted immortality, but are still the "mortal" controlling themselves. Infection with a daemon results in it controlling you, at least temporarily.

So no, Daemon Princes in the Chaos Marine Codex are NOT daemons. They lack the "daemon" special rule that was created prior to their current codex was written.

There is a difference between 'a model with the daemon special rule' and 'a daemon model' there is usually one if these quotes in the description or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:They are granted immortality, but are still the "mortal" controlling themselves. Infection with a daemon results in it controlling you, at least temporarily.

So no, Daemon Princes in the Chaos Marine Codex are NOT daemons. They lack the "daemon" special rule that was created prior to their current codex was written.

There is a difference between 'a model with the daemon special rule' and 'a daemon model' there is usually one if these quotes in the description or something.

GW created the "Daemon" special rule prior to the publication of either the Chaos Space Marines Codex or the Chaos Daemons codex.

Everything in the Chaos Daemons codex has it.
Nothing in the Chaos Space Marines codex has it.

All these name arguments just show how silly GW writers can be, and why you can't take names at face value... Compare these 3 GW rulings about names:

1. All Dreadnoughts subtypes are true Dreadnoughts, the "specific" name doesn't matter (same goes for Russes)....fine
2. Not all Deamons have the Daemon rule; some do, but some don't....it depends on the Codex...okay, whatever, dude
3. Hot Shot Lasguns are not Lasguns at all; no FRFSRF for them...really?? A Russ is Russ, no matter what, but not the same for a Lasgun???

In some cases GW writers use the SPECIFIC names of things (Lasguns vs. Hot Shot Lasguns) to make major differences in rules (see IG Orders). In other cases, they lump all TYPES of a given thing into one ruleset (Dreads/Russes). And sometimes, most annoying, things are given similar or even exact same names, only to have their rules determined by seperate Codexes.

Don't try to figure it out, for it will only frustrate you. Just go with it.

At least GW finally FAQed all SM gear to be the same. no matter what codex it came out of...the days of asking your opponent "What type of smoke, Storm Shields, CMLs, etc. do you have?" are finally gone.
Maybe in 6th ed, GW will work out the rest of the name/rule issues...not getting my hopes up, though.

If you think of fluff then a dreadnought clamp would still be able to hold a venerable dread, it is the same size and weight so it would

Mannahnin wrote:GW created the "Daemon" special rule prior to the publication of either the Chaos Space Marines Codex or the Chaos Daemons codex.

Everything in the Chaos Daemons codex has it.
Nothing in the Chaos Space Marines codex has it.

It isn't a universal special rule, is it?

Don't the GK refer to Demons as "chaos born"? A DP is defenitly not born in chaos

Alerian wrote:All these name arguments just show how silly GW writers can be, and why you can't take names at face value... Compare these 3 GW rulings about names:

1. All Dreadnoughts subtypes are true Dreadnoughts, the "specific" name doesn't matter (same goes for Russes)....fine
2. Not all Deamons have the Daemon rule; some do, but some don't....it depends on the Codex...okay, whatever, dude
3. Hot Shot Lasguns are not Lasguns at all; no FRFSRF for them...really?? A Russ is Russ, no matter what, but not the same for a Lasgun???

In some cases GW writers use the SPECIFIC names of things (Lasguns vs. Hot Shot Lasguns) to make major differences in rules (see IG Orders). In other cases, they lump all TYPES of a given thing into one ruleset (Dreads/Russes). And sometimes, most annoying, things are given similar or even exact same names, only to have their rules determined by seperate Codexes.

Don't try to figure it out, for it will only frustrate you. Just go with it.

At least GW finally FAQed all SM gear to be the same. no matter what codex it came out of...the days of asking your opponent "What type of smoke, Storm Shields, CMLs, etc. do you have?" are finally gone.
Maybe in 6th ed, GW will work out the rest of the name/rule issues...not getting my hopes up, though.

I think the best way to put it is that GW describes the rules as opposed to defining them. Instead of strict definitions and explanations, you get a narrative of what the rules are about. I imagine that somewhere, there's a group at GW that knows all of the exact rules, and they're beautiful, balanced, competitive, intuitive, and clear. When it comes times to write a Codex, though, they auido record a number of games on old cassette tapes and give it to the writer, who when has to reverse engineer everything based on scratchy descriptions.

Anyways, if anybody reads the white dwarf, on the launch of the Blood Angels dreadnoughts/Stormraven launch issue battle report, they have a death co. dreadnought in the Stormraven. That would give a good indication of GW's stance on loading various kinds of them.