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As we know Eldar as a race are strongly psychic, made by the Old Ones. The Old Ones created them, and they were very powerful up to the fall, but surely being a strong psychic similar to the abilities of the Old Ones they should have also been wiped out by the enslaver plague?

I don't think they'd been created yet.

Harriticus wrote:I don't think they'd been created yet.

It was the Enslaver plague which decimated the Old Ones, and the Old Ones created the Eldar, so the Eldar had to have been around by then.

The enslaver plague was actually brought about by the Old Ones highly psychic new races.

Lexicanum wrote:The Old Ones eventually came to the conclusion that they needed to create warrior and psychic races with the specific purpose of combating the Necrons. These races are thought to have included the Eldar, the Rashan, and the K'nib.

The introduction of these warlike and often psychic races into the galaxy had the side effect of warping the Warp - the war, pain, and destruction of the galaxy during the conflict was reflected in the Warp, and the innocuous entities which naturally existed in the Warp were twisted into voracious and hostile predators. Ultimately this would lead to the destruction of the Old Ones.

The C'tan empire could not counter this new form of warfare. Eventually they became devoted to severing reality's relationship to the Warp in order to make psychic powers useless.

Eventually, with the eruption of the Enslaver Plague on the galaxy, the Old Ones were broken and scattered, never to come to any power again and eventually die out altogether

Perhaps they hid within the Webway. There isn't really a lot of info. on the War in Heaven AFAIK

Maybe the same reason it didn't kill off their other creations like the Orks and their more minor one that became humans, luck. Though they kind of had the advantage of not being as strong in the warp as they Eldar, they probably had a slight presence as well that might have been enough. But, also maybe not enough for the Enslavers to use them.

If I remember correctly it's not really a plague like a normal one. The enslavers are actually xenos or warp entities. I think they way it worked would be they would use a psyker as a gate and flow into the world, then pass to other psykers making them into gates to allow more Enslavers to pass into the world. Probably killing the infected psyker in the process.

I doubt hiding in the Webway would have saved them, as really it just kind of puts them closer to the warp. Though that's probably one of the ways they could have avoided it. Another could be they figured out how to fight them or how to lower the chance of becoming infected through isolation and concentrating I guess.

Lexicanum article on Enslavers.

sorry, but what was the enslaver plague?

That should help:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Enslaver

Now, read that, and see what you think of why the Eldar weren't wiped out too.

I think I have one theory: Enslavers enslave any NON-psychic being - Eldar are all psykers.
Old Ones have fallen, but Eldar ( beeing the psyhic rase as a whole ) probably blocked their attacks and drive them off to the Warp. It's not surprise being how the Eldar hold Orks of short leash until their fall...

Brother Coa wrote:I think I have one theory: Enslavers enslave any NON-psychic being - Eldar are all psykers.
Old Ones have fallen, but Eldar ( beeing the psyhic rase as a whole ) probably blocked their attacks and drive them off to the Warp. It's not surprise being how the Eldar hold Orks of short leash until their fall...

Apart from the fact that Enslavers need psychic beings to enter the material world.

n0t_u wrote:
I doubt hiding in the Webway would have saved them, as really it just kind of puts them closer to the warp. Though that's probably one of the ways they could have avoided it.

Lexicanum article on Enslavers.

Not really, hiding in the webway seems to protect the DE just fine from Slaanesh. Definitely though the plague would have affected them greatly and probably decimated their civilization. The bigger leap of logic for me is how did they take over the galaxy after such an incident that probably wrecked their species. Eldar being slow to grow and reproduce and all that.

They weren't angstily angsting angst about the whole "created a warp god who then devoured 99.9% of their civilization and is still trying to eat them" thing then. They really have no justification to have not recovered since the Fall either. It's almost as if the strict, moralist paths that drive their youths to become corsairs or rangers, slowing reducing the refugee populations that were so huge as to require planet sized craftworlds to house them all to almost nothing, are antithetical to their basic psychology or something...

If the Pylons on Cadia are holding back the expansion of the Eye of Terror now. It might be possible that durring the time of the Enslaver plague the Pylons made to warp portals harder to open and immossible to maintain.

So the Eldar could have rode out the plague in the shadow of the C'Tan's great work.

There is really not much info so that's just a guess.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:They weren't angstily angsting angst about the whole "created a warp god who then devoured 99.9% of their civilization and is still trying to eat them" thing then. They really have no justification to have not recovered since the Fall either. It's almost as if the strict, moralist paths that drive their youths to become corsairs or rangers, slowing reducing the refugee populations that were so huge as to require planet sized craftworlds to house them all to almost nothing, are antithetical to their basic psychology or something...

And everyone is angry when I say " Eldar are idiots". Every other race would find distant planet and try to survive, all Eldar are determined to die to "maybe" summon a god that would consume Slaanesh ( again "maybe" ) and they will be ( again "maybe") reborn on their home worlds when their new born god close the Eye of Terror. Their visions and prophesies had already failed them time and time again in the past. But who knows, it's nothing more ridiculous then our Emperor resurrection and the final battle with Chaos...

We will find out if GW determine to finish the story one day... ( which I doubt A LOT ).

rabidaskal wrote:

n0t_u wrote:
I doubt hiding in the Webway would have saved them, as really it just kind of puts them closer to the warp. Though that's probably one of the ways they could have avoided it.

Lexicanum article on Enslavers.

Not really, hiding in the webway seems to protect the DE just fine from Slaanesh. Definitely though the plague would have affected them greatly and probably decimated their civilization. The bigger leap of logic for me is how did they take over the galaxy after such an incident that probably wrecked their species. Eldar being slow to grow and reproduce and all that.

The time between the plague and m21 is very long. They could have been reduced to the stone age, but still have plenty of time to redevelop into a space-faring race and set out; maybe even several times over (they're stated to be on average more intelligent than humans as a while).

Although their gestation and lifetimes are longer than humans, in the larger scheme of things they're still mayflies.

Same reason humanity wasn't wiped out by the bubonic plague.

Mortality rates were high, but not all encompassing.


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rabidaskal wrote: The bigger leap of logic for me is how did they take over the galaxy after such an incident that probably wrecked their species. Eldar being slow to grow and reproduce and all that.

That was 60 million years ago.

Million.

Daba wrote:

rabidaskal wrote:

n0t_u wrote:
I doubt hiding in the Webway would have saved them, as really it just kind of puts them closer to the warp. Though that's probably one of the ways they could have avoided it.

Lexicanum article on Enslavers.

Not really, hiding in the webway seems to protect the DE just fine from Slaanesh. Definitely though the plague would have affected them greatly and probably decimated their civilization. The bigger leap of logic for me is how did they take over the galaxy after such an incident that probably wrecked their species. Eldar being slow to grow and reproduce and all that.

The time between the plague and m21 is very long. They could have been reduced to the stone age, but still have plenty of time to redevelop into a space-faring race and set out; maybe even several times over (they're stated to be on average more intelligent than humans as a while).

Although their gestation and lifetimes are longer than humans, in the larger scheme of things they're still mayflies.

DarknessEternal wrote:Same reason humanity wasn't wiped out by the bubonic plague.

Mortality rates were high, but not all encompassing.


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rabidaskal wrote: The bigger leap of logic for me is how did they take over the galaxy after such an incident that probably wrecked their species. Eldar being slow to grow and reproduce and all that.

That was 60 million years ago.

Million.

This. The Eldar were decimated but they had 60 million years to rebuild. They had a good run.

Based on how careful the DE are about being sensed, I'd imagine it would be impossible to build an Eldar Empire the size of their old one. Chaos would be drawn to it once it hit a certain size.

I agree, the Eldar were most likely nearly wiped out by the Enslaver plague. But, a small number survived and was able to re-populate the galaxy.

Hiding in the webway doesn't make much sense, because the Old Ones would have used hid there as well if it was safe.


As to why the Eldar survived when the Old Ones didn't, we don't really know. Perhaps the Eldar were slightly more resistant to an Enslaver's possession attack. Perhaps the Old Ones were in a more precarious situation when the plague hit. Perhaps it was just dumb luck.

I think it was a numbers game. There were lots of eldar, but few old ones. enough eldar survived by being elsewhere, having a resistance/immunity, nobody noticed ect. that they were able to survive. where as the great beacons of psychic energy that was the old ones just drew the enslavers in.

Well, if they were decimated by the enslavers plague and then decimated AGAIN right after they finished rebuilding, maybe they just didn't have the corage to do it again because they knew some other god will come along and screw it up. Now all they have is faith that when they all die a new god will come along and screw slaneesh up the bum.

Why everyone thinks that the Eldar simply survived in a few to again repopulate in billions?
They had Old Ones tech, they are psykers and Enslavers surly fought Necrons as well as everyone else.
And what about the Orks? They where present there as well and it's hard for them to be in low population...

Thats how enslavers work, through psykers. They're not really much of an entity to fight in the general sense. They'd target the more highly psychic races first and it could even be possible the Necrontyr and Orks simply didn't have the psychic energy required by the enslavers.

The Eldar have had an extremely long time to rebuild their empire (If I recall correctly we're at something like M3.0012 or something like that, I'm not that great at the Imperial dating system ). In fact they're kind of lucky there were even any left to rebuild their civilisation by the looks of how the enslavers work.

n0t_u wrote:Thats how enslavers work, through psykers. They're not really much of an entity to fight in the general sense. They'd target the more highly psychic races first and it could even be possible the Necrontyr and Orks simply didn't have the psychic energy required by the enslavers.

Wait... I thought it was the other way around - that they work trough the non-psykers. And that only the psyhic race can battle them....

Note the Old Ones weren't wiped out by the Enslavers either. Doesn't the Necron Codex say the Old Ones later retreated from the galactic scene and degenerated (into toad men or something)?

Pretty much yeh.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slann

They survived then just slowly died out themselves. Pretty much nearly all of the information in the second link has been retconned away though.

Because they turned tail and ran.

As Rohanan from DoW2 states, the Eldar species is alive today because they know when to run and when to hide.

Daba wrote:Note the Old Ones weren't wiped out by the Enslavers either. Doesn't the Necron Codex say the Old Ones later retreated from the galactic scene and degenerated (into toad men or something)?

Because they were nearly wiped out by the C'tan/Necrons. Remember, the Old Ones lost that war.

DarknessEternal wrote:
Because they were nearly wiped out by the C'tan/Necrons. Remember, the Old Ones lost that war.

The timeline states the Enslaver plague happened while the Old Ones and younger races were winning back, but just before the Deceiver could enact his great plan (pylons).

At that point in time, the C'Tan and Necron were the losing side, not the Old Ones and Younger Races.

Daba wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Because they were nearly wiped out by the C'tan/Necrons. Remember, the Old Ones lost that war.

The timeline states the Enslaver plague happened while the Old Ones and younger races were winning back, but just before the Deceiver could enact his great plan (pylons).

At that point in time, the C'Tan and Necron were the losing side, not the Old Ones and Younger Races.

Citation Needed, since that is explicitly opposite what is written in Codex Necrons.

C'tan had their victory so complete that fighting each other became the hip thing to do.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Daba wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:
Because they were nearly wiped out by the C'tan/Necrons. Remember, the Old Ones lost that war.

The timeline states the Enslaver plague happened while the Old Ones and younger races were winning back, but just before the Deceiver could enact his great plan (pylons).

At that point in time, the C'Tan and Necron were the losing side, not the Old Ones and Younger Races.

Citation Needed, since that is explicitly opposite what is written in Codex Necrons.

C'tan had their victory so complete that fighting each other became the hip thing to do.

I have read the 'cron codex, I could be mistaken, but it does say that the Old Ones were winning, until the enslaver plague decimated them, so the C'tan started winning, but had to go into hibernation because their food sources were being wiped out.