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So I always imagined it to be a shuttle of some kind but does anyone know of any specifically mentioned methods of civilian space travel?

I have always wondered about civilian lives as well. Do they go on vacation to beautiful worlds? Are there companies like today? Just on a galactic scale, then also scaled down to planetary businesses? Or is it more communistic in the way that the Imperium owns everything and if you work it is for the advancement of mankind and the Imperium?

Not that I know of. I suspect that civilians never leave the planet which they live on until they are (inevitably) killed or die, so they don't have any civilain ships. I doubt Terra would waste ships for Civlilians considering how many hundereds of thousands of ships that would require. Also, why would they have any need for them?
Like Monty said, I imagine they live to work for the good of the imperium, and have no time for frivolous escapades such as holidays.

Lokirfellheart wrote:Not that I know of. I suspect that civilians never leave the planet which they live on until they are (inevitably) killed or die, so they don't have any civilain ships. I doubt Terra would waste ships for Civlilians considering how many hundereds of thousands of ships that would require. Also, why would they have any need for them?

Well think of today, people already pay to go on "space" flights. Why when they have all of this tech would they want to be strapped down to one planet? Especially the wealthy. I understand if the common folk are worked to death, however there has to be rich people.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:Not that I know of. I suspect that civilians never leave the planet which they live on until they are (inevitably) killed or die, so they don't have any civilain ships. I doubt Terra would waste ships for Civlilians considering how many hundereds of thousands of ships that would require. Also, why would they have any need for them?

Well think of today, people already pay to go on "space" flights. Why when they have all of this tech would they want to be strapped down to one planet? Especially the wealthy. I understand if the common folk are worked to death, however there has to be rich people.

I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Lokirfellheart wrote:
I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Some Imperial citizens will save their whole lives money so they can embark on the Pilgrimage to Terra and the rich will also take trips to paradise and pleasure worlds. If your poor then it would be Freighters and Commerce vessels that you would travel on. The rich, well Virgin Spaceways is the way to go I guess

All planets have an Imperial Governor, but as long as you are meeting your Guard and food tithes you are much left to get on with what you do. It is still possible to get rich, even though the tag line for 40k is 'there is only war' it's not. Not all planets are fighting all the time. But saying 'In the Grim Darkness of the far future there are only episodes of Space Jerry Springer' hasn't quite got the same sound to it.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:
I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Some Imperial citizens will save their whole lives money so they can embark on the Pilgrimage to Terra and the rich will also take trips to paradise and pleasure worlds. If your poor then it would be Freighters and Commerce vessels that you would travel on. The rich, well Virgin Spaceways is the way to go I guess

All planets have an Imperial Governor, but as long as you are meeting your Guard and food tithes you are much left to get on with what you do. It is still possible to get rich, even though the tag line for 40k is 'there is only war' it's not. Not all planets are fighting all the time. But saying 'In the Grim Darkness of the far future there are only episodes of Space Jerry Springer' hasn't quite got the same sound to it.

That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

Rogue Traders.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I have always wondered about civilian lives as well. Do they go on vacation to beautiful worlds? Are there companies like today? Just on a galactic scale, then also scaled down to planetary businesses? Or is it more communistic in the way that the Imperium owns everything and if you work it is for the advancement of mankind and the Imperium?

My guess is everything is based around the sector or sub-sector as its greatest unit. There doesn't seem to be any private corporations though, the Administratum and Adeptus Mechanicus seem to own all forms of business.

But yes GW needs to expand upon civilian life a bit more. I don't even know if there are TV stations or the Internet in the Imperium.

Anyway, civilian fleets are overseen by the Imperial Navy and just include basic transports. More important individuals have private crafts.

Lokirfellheart wrote:
That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

Use your imagination.

Perhaps they have a rather delightful tasting beverage that happens to sell better than Kaka Kala .

Remember 40K is about the warfare aspects not the commercial aspects. If you envision the IOM as a sort of Spanish Sea Empire ala 1500 - 1600 (which fits with the local governors and military forces, disjointed communication due to distance, and occasional Inquisition-after all NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!) then there would indeed have been quite a bit of commercialisation, just not to the level of modern times.

Indeed, the fluff in the IG or Nid codex denotes large commercial/civilian transports that were used to remove populations in the way of a splinter fleet. The concepts of Rogue Traders also support this.

Necropolis also represents (badly) commodity market traders on the hive world being attacked.

The first book of the Horus heresy has a street lined with commodity traders and pubs in it (where the one poet dude has an anti-emperor outburst and gets kerb-stomped by some drunk guardsmen).

I assume that it would be impossible to manage all consumable resources from a centralized and hierarchical government such as the 40K one, heck we can't even do it on a country-sized level, so I assume capitalism is in full swing, albeit more grim and dark

There are plenty of stories about the uber-rich going on lavish holidays to paradise worlds etc etc. For the poor I guess it's a weekend hiking in the generator-floors of hive cities, you know, camping out under the pipework, fishing for mutants in the radioactive waste ponds, telling stories around the campfire, fending off genestealers with nothing but a pointed stick...

ah the good old days

The DoW game has a planetary governor shipping out to a stronghold across the sector.
If a civilian governor in control of a forge/hive world has ships for his government, there'll be civilian traders and private travel too.

Goldenfistcrusader wrote:So I always imagined it to be a shuttle of some kind but does anyone know of any specifically mentioned methods of civilian space travel?

Yes.

Go read the Rogue Trader RPG's core rulebook for more info, or Dark Heresy and its supplements have some info too.

Industry and commerce are the heart of the Imperium. But the main industry is war. Everyone is paid, but few can afford luxuries.

Lokirfellheart wrote:Not that I know of. I suspect that civilians never leave the planet which they live on until they are (inevitably) killed or die, so they don't have any civilain ships. I doubt Terra would waste ships for Civlilians considering how many hundereds of thousands of ships that would require. Also, why would they have any need for them?
Like Monty said, I imagine they live to work for the good of the imperium, and have no time for frivolous escapades such as holidays.

I forget where, but I remember seeing it mentioned that many imperial civilians would go on a massive pilgrimage to the holy planet of Terra, they would often die on the way and rely on their children or their grandchildren to get there in their place.

From this I imagine there are some civilian ships, but they are likely slower and not as advanced as the battleships.

That depends on the ship. Rogue Trader ships can be more advanced than imperial navy ships.

Lokirfellheart wrote:That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

Keep in mind that the Imperium isn't a homogenous culture. There's no 'catch-all' economic system, every planet pretty much does it's own thing. So some planets will have capitalism and corporations and such, others will have varying degrees of socialism, others work with a more feudal approach. As far as Hive Worlds go, I can imagine people getting rich through smuggling and black market trade of rare and/or illicit commodities.

there are private space faring vessels.

they do have to pay large sums of money to obtain their Astropaths, and they basically rent their Warp Drives from the Ad Mech.

this goes for Rogue Traders and other private citizens.


the Imperium uses a Capitalistic economic system overall, they couldn't hope to control an Economy of that scale beyond taxs and outlawing certain goods. planets can have their own systems to varing degrees.

the difference is the Imperium can step in at any time and sieze property. its a Dictatorship with a Capitalistic economic system.

If I remember well, both DH and the BL fluff mention both commercial guilds and enormous private corporation (both in Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies), as well as rich noble families of rogue trader or more mundane origins, up to planet-spanning economical, industiral and manufacturing empires (the Malfian area in Sector Calixis, DH, for example). So Maphysto should be absolutely right.
As for civilian transportation, inter-sistem transport ship, as well as private passenger shuttles are shown in many BL fluff sources (again Eisenhorn, as well as Ciaphas Cain), while RT describes many warp-faring non-Imperial Navy (although armed all the same) ships, as pilgrim ships, ware transport ships, and the well-known and well-advanced (I humbly confirm the authority of the more veteran members) Rogue Traders themselves; IIRC BFG (or at least its FW range) also includes some civilian ships converted to military use.

Melissia wrote:That depends on the ship. Rogue Trader ships can be more advanced than imperial navy ships.

Bullsh ! Heresy!

Hum, sorry. That was the Navy fanboy.

Actually, I have never heard of any rogue trader vessel that could outmatch a navy battleship. The most wealthy rogue trader families will often own a cruiser (or sometimes even a battlecruiser). The wealthiest rogue trader I have ever heard of owned a ship the size of a battlecruiser and two additional cruisers. Often, Rogue Trader vessels are decommissioned Navy ships, which are then "upgraded" with various artifacts collected by the Rogue Trader throughout the years.
And actually, some of these artifacts will certainly be xenos, and thus have capabilities never encountered on a navy ship. But this is the only way in which a rogue trader ship will outmatch a navy vessel.
A rogue Trader vessel will simply have a less disciplined and trained crew (in most cases, not always) and a less advanced equipment. For instance, rogue trader attack crafts (which are extremely expensive) will probably not match their Navy counterparts.

Leigen_Zero wrote:The first book of the Horus heresy has a street lined with commodity traders and pubs in it (where the one poet dude has an anti-emperor outburst and gets kerb-stomped by some drunk guardsmen).

But there are noble families you will find on worlds who have managed to amass a large inheritance over 10,000. Just look at Vervunhive.

Lokirfellheart wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:
I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Some Imperial citizens will save their whole lives money so they can embark on the Pilgrimage to Terra and the rich will also take trips to paradise and pleasure worlds. If your poor then it would be Freighters and Commerce vessels that you would travel on. The rich, well Virgin Spaceways is the way to go I guess

All planets have an Imperial Governor, but as long as you are meeting your Guard and food tithes you are much left to get on with what you do. It is still possible to get rich, even though the tag line for 40k is 'there is only war' it's not. Not all planets are fighting all the time. But saying 'In the Grim Darkness of the far future there are only episodes of Space Jerry Springer' hasn't quite got the same sound to it.

That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

The work, worker still get paid money

BluntmanDC wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:
I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Some Imperial citizens will save their whole lives money so they can embark on the Pilgrimage to Terra and the rich will also take trips to paradise and pleasure worlds. If your poor then it would be Freighters and Commerce vessels that you would travel on. The rich, well Virgin Spaceways is the way to go I guess

All planets have an Imperial Governor, but as long as you are meeting your Guard and food tithes you are much left to get on with what you do. It is still possible to get rich, even though the tag line for 40k is 'there is only war' it's not. Not all planets are fighting all the time. But saying 'In the Grim Darkness of the far future there are only episodes of Space Jerry Springer' hasn't quite got the same sound to it.

That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

The work, worker still get paid money

Why? Most likely they get room and board, and thats it.

For the few (1 in a billion?) that can pay, I always saw it like the Navigator's ship from DUNE.

Noir wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:
I imagine all of their tech would go towards military aims, and there would be very, very, very few rich people, lest they indulge and attract the gaze of Slaanesh.....

On a (slightly) more serious note, how would someone become rich in the imperium? Everthing is owned by Terra (I think), so no oil magnates, etc.

Some Imperial citizens will save their whole lives money so they can embark on the Pilgrimage to Terra and the rich will also take trips to paradise and pleasure worlds. If your poor then it would be Freighters and Commerce vessels that you would travel on. The rich, well Virgin Spaceways is the way to go I guess

All planets have an Imperial Governor, but as long as you are meeting your Guard and food tithes you are much left to get on with what you do. It is still possible to get rich, even though the tag line for 40k is 'there is only war' it's not. Not all planets are fighting all the time. But saying 'In the Grim Darkness of the far future there are only episodes of Space Jerry Springer' hasn't quite got the same sound to it.

That still dosen't explain how they aquire the money in the first place.

The work, worker still get paid money

Why? Most likely they get room and board, and thats it.

For the few (1 in a billion?) that can pay, I always saw it like the Navigator's ship from DUNE.

As seen in games like necromunda, normal humans get paid, they have money, if for the most part very little, but they still have money.

space travel in the IoM is heavily controlled, with none officials requiring permits, licences or the such. normal human workers do not have access to space travel, unless they go through lenghty and expensive processes.

Laodamia wrote:

Melissia wrote:That depends on the ship. Rogue Trader ships can be more advanced than imperial navy ships.

Bullsh ! Heresy!

Hum, sorry. That was the Navy fanboy.

Actually, I have never heard of any rogue trader vessel that could outmatch a navy battleship.

But thats not what Melissia said, saying more advanced doesn't necessarily mean 'better in an all out gun battle'.

So kind of like...now.

BluntmanDC wrote: As seen in games like necromunda, normal humans get paid, they have money, if for the most part very little, but they still have money.

It more likely the worker get paid in credit usable only to buy from the House they work for. While ganger sell items for real IoM credit. Most poeple are just serfs, unable to even read. There income is likely based on the Lord/Serf dynamic, like the feudalism system the IoM is based on.

Laodamia wrote:

Melissia wrote:That depends on the ship. Rogue Trader ships can be more advanced than imperial navy ships.

Bullsh ! Heresy!

Hum, sorry. That was the Navy fanboy.

Actually, I have never heard of any rogue trader vessel that could outmatch a navy battleship. The most wealthy rogue trader families will often own a cruiser (or sometimes even a battlecruiser). The wealthiest rogue trader I have ever heard of owned a ship the size of a battlecruiser and two additional cruisers. Often, Rogue Trader vessels are decommissioned Navy ships, which are then "upgraded" with various artifacts collected by the Rogue Trader throughout the years.
And actually, some of these artifacts will certainly be xenos, and thus have capabilities never encountered on a navy ship. But this is the only way in which a rogue trader ship will outmatch a navy vessel.
A rogue Trader vessel will simply have a less disciplined and trained crew (in most cases, not always) and a less advanced equipment. For instance, rogue trader attack crafts (which are extremely expensive) will probably not match their Navy counterparts.

a Rogue Trader can potentially outclass an IoM ship of the same tonnage.

Rogue Traders can't hold a Candle to ships like Emperor's and Armageddon class Battleships, but on a Cruiser level its anyones game.


Rogue Traders are able to upgrade their ships and have a vested interest in doing so, the Navy has standardised designs and doesn't bother upgrading existing ships when they can just build a new ship. they also won't scrap an "outdated" ship if its still voidworthy.


as a result, a Rogue Trader will splurge on more powerful voids and banks of weapons then would normally be found on a Imperial ship of the same size. RogueTraderssometimes even accuire Alien technology to put on their ships (they DO have a license for this )

Several of the most-powerful Rogue Trader dynasties command entire armadas of vessels, not all of them of entirely-human origin. Some extremely-wealthy few of this noble elite use recaptured Space Hulks as the flagship of their fleets.

Could they outgun the entire Navy, or even just a sector battlefleet? No. Could they outgun, with their fleet, a Grand Cruiser with its escorts? Almost certainly.


The Eisenhorne and Ravenor novels touch on the economy of the average Hive-dweller, including the economically-depressed areas caused by a large textile concern going out of business and laying off its workforce of some 20,000 people.

Psienesis wrote:Several of the most-powerful Rogue Trader dynasties command entire armadas of vessels, not all of them of entirely-human origin. Some extremely-wealthy few of this noble elite use recaptured Space Hulks as the flagship of their fleets.

Could they outgun the entire Navy, or even just a sector battlefleet? No. Could they outgun, with their fleet, a Grand Cruiser with its escorts? Almost certainly.


The Eisenhorne and Ravenor novels touch on the economy of the average Hive-dweller, including the economically-depressed areas caused by a large textile concern going out of business and laying off its workforce of some 20,000 people.

The next codex addition will be the rogue traders and all of their frivolous ships.