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Craig came over last night and was trying out Guard again as he hasn't played them for a bit. He's gone mech but using Platoons instead of Veterans which would be interesting. I'm testing Kan Wall again so will be proxying Tyranids as I don't have enough models and Craigs Kanz have fallen apart so some just have the bases

Orks "Kan Wall" - 2,000 points

HQ

1 x Big Mek - kustom force field & cybork body
1 x Big Mek - kustom force field & cybork body

Elite

9 x Lootas
9 x Lootas
9 x Lootas

Troops

30 x Boyz - shootas - Nob w/ power klaw
30 x Boyz - shootas - Nob w/ power klaw
30 x Boyz - shootas - Nob w/ power klaw
13 x Gretchin - Runtherd w/ grot-pod

Fast Attack

1 x Deffkopta - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw
1 x Deffkopta - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw
1 x Deffkopta - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

Heavy Support

3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits
3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits
3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits

Total: 1,999

Imperial Guard "Armoured Fist" - 2,000 points

HQ

Company Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x meltaguns
Company Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x plasma guns

Troops

Platoon Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x flamers
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon

Platoon Command Squad w/ Chimera - 4 x flamers
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon
Infantry Squad w/ Chimera - plasma gun & lascannon

Special Weapons Team - 3 x flamers

Fast Attack

Valkyrie - multiple missile pods
Vendetta

Heavy Support

Manticore Missile Launcher
Manticore Missile Launcher
Griffon

Game: Anniliation + Pitched Battle

Deployment

Craig won the roll off which is what I didn't want against Guard. He lined up his tanks putting all Infantry Squads at the front then on the right flank the PCS and the two Manticores behind the Chimera wall. Right flank he put both CCS behind the other three Infantry Chimeras with the Griffon deployed in a ruin inbetween both flanks. Both gunships deployed on the right flank.

I deploy putting my Kanz in front using each unit to cover a single mob of Boyz. Big Meks go in the formation on the left and right flank which overlap and cover the centre formation. Lootas deploy in a single ruin on the right flank and two units on the left flank in a tower ruin. Koptas will be outflanking and Gretchin coming in via reserve.




* Tactical Notes

I'm hoping to steal the initiative as going second against Guard isn't good. If I do I'll get first turn shooting in on the Manticores and Vendetta as those are the worrying stuff so far. I'll use the Koptas to outflank and hopefully get something and the Gretchin are in reserve to avoid getting shot, when they come in they will run into the base of the tower ruin but the longer they stay in reserve the better.

Turn 1

I attempt to steal the initiative and fail. Craig does scout move with his Valkyrie heading over towards my formation on the right flank.

Craigs first turn he remains mostly static. Only movement is the flamer SWT getting out the Valkyrie to incinerator some Lootas while the Valkyrie moves 12" back.

Shooting the SWT roast the Lootas and score the first kill point. The Valkyrie is luckily out of range with the missile pods but still gets some multi laser shots in. Vendetta manages to kill a Kan on the left formation while everything else Craig has bad luck or my force field makes the saves, though the Manticores do well scoring wounds halving the formation on the left flank.

My turn I move my Kanz up making sure the Boyz stay behind to gain cover that's really about it.

Shooting I fire Lootas on from the tower at a Manticore but Craig passes cover saves while the Kanz wreck a Chimera on the right flank the squad inside has to emergence disembark. I blast the SWT with two units of Boyz as Craig used my Kanz well for cover save and went to ground as well, though in the end they died.

Kill points Orks: 2 Imperial Guard: 1





* Tactical Notes

Not a too bad first turn. I would have liked to fire at the Vendetta with rokkits but it would have been out of range and I really need to take out one of those Manticores after the damage done to the Boyz. Bit gutted a entire Loota unit got wiped out but Craig got his target priority spot on and has minimised my shooting a little bit.

Next turn I'll focus on the Manticores and Vendetta still while moving up and blast the Valkyrie as I can see those blast templates been really annoying.

Turn 2

Craig moves some of the Chimeras on the right flank as both gunships move to mid field while one Chimera on the right flank moves.

Shooting Craig unleashes the pain wiping out a unit of Kanz on the left flank and slaughtering the Boyz which fail morale and start to fall back and they are close to the board edge! He starts hammering the centre unit which are just out of KFF range leaving them with about 11 left so luckily still fearless.

I roll for reserves and a single Kopta comes on the left flank and the Gretchin walk in off the table edge into the base of the tower ruin.

I move forward with the remaining Kanz and tighten up the KFF range so at least Orks will be getting 5+ cover this time as the Griffon just bombed them and splattered them. The remaining Boyz and attached Big Mek fall back giving up two kill points, grrr!

Shooting I blast a Chimera with some Kanz but only shake it. I manage to immobilise the Valkyrie and score two weapon destroyed results on it taking out both missile pods. I also manage to score weapon destroyed on a Manticore taking the missile rack.

In assault Kopta charges the Chimera and scores crew stunned.

Kill points Orks: 2 Imperial Guard: 4




* Tactical Notes

Well turn 2 hasn't been good at all. Not only have I not scored any kill points, but I have neutralised vehicles I guess, Craig has got double kill points over me. He has done well focusing fire power on single Kan and Boyz units destroying a unit of Kanz and making the Boyz fall back gaining three kill points.

I'm hoping my dice rolls will change as it appears I've got Craigs bad luck from turn 1 as nothing is really been taken out. At least the Valkyrie is neutralised and I can assault it next turn but the Vendetta, Manticore and Griffon are still a pain in the arse.

Turn 3

Craig moves his Chimeras out on the left flank while the ones on the right move out as Craig knows I'll be in assault next turn and he doesn't want me to auto hit his tanks.

Shooting Craig puts a lot of fire power into the single Deffkopta but it only takes a single wound. He starts thinning out the Boyz nearly on his doorstep but thanks to good cover saves 7 still remain and pass morale. He thins out the untouched horde killing about 6 from those in total. He blasts the Kanz wiping out one unit and leaving just a single Kan left in the entire game thanks to mass heavy bolter and multi laser shots.

In assault the Kopta just stuns the Chimera again.

I call for reserves and another Kopta arrives on the right flank which looks like it's going to be out of assault range!

I move everything forward as much as I can.

I call a Waaaagh! but the large mob rolls a 1 to run, great. The other unit manages to move through terrain so multi assault will be possible. Lootas open fire and manage to wreck a Chimera getting me a kill point.

In assault the Kan charges and scores weapon destroyed and shaken on a Chimera. Boyz multi assault a Chimera scoring stunned and wreck the immobilised Valkyrie.

Kill points Orks: 4 Imperial Guard: 5



* Tactical Notes

Again another rubbish turn but at least I'm catching up in kill points. Looks like my dice are just rubbish or cursed as I keep rolling 2's to do damage on stuff! God damn it! My Waaagh! also failed as well, extremely bad times.

Plan next time is to bash that Chimera with the Kan if it is still standing and move the Boyz into combat. I can expect the other Boyz by the wrecked Valkyrie to be dead.

Turn 4

Craig turbo boosts the Vendetta by my Lootas in the tower and uses the grav chute roll for the PCS to bail out flamers ready. He moves remaining Chimeras to get better LOS on the Boyz by the flaming Valkyrie while the plasma CCS bail out their tank by the Kan and move into the ruin behind on the upper floor while the melta CCS bails out their stunned tank.

Shooting Kopta which can on the right flank eats plasma and dies. Boyz by the Valkyrie get wasted while the Kan takes a lot of fire power but is still standing with no dccw and is immobilised. Lootas get roasted and all die. The Kopta by the stunned Chimera gets flamerd by the squad which just bailed out the tank but is fine.

In assault the PCS charge the Kopta and get lucky and kill it.

Kopta fails reserve and still doesn't come in!

I move the Gretchin out the tower ruin ready to blast the PCS in front of them. Boyz move forward ready to multi assault.

Shooting Gretchin blast the PCS and force morale test but the PCS stay put. Lootas blast something but can't remember what.

In assault Boyz multi charge the melta CCS and Chimera the Kan is smashing, CCS remains with the Commander holding on and the Chimera just takes weapon destroyed. Gretchin charge the PCS and only one Guardsmen remains but stays in combat.





I think the photos must have got messed up or I forgot to get one because turn 4 is actually turn 5 where the game ended.

Kill points Orks: 4 Imperial Guard: 9

Win for the Guard!

Summary

Interesting game with the Kan Wall and I think I need to revise my tactics. What I should have done is run first turn at least which would have hopefully put me half way across the board, I then could have shot at Craig later. Instead I walked forward into his guns at a slow pace and bent over like a bitch and took what he was giving - and it hurt! :( .

List wise I'm going to drop the big shootas as they added nothing I don't have already. I'll maybe leave the Lootas in units of 9 as adding another to make 10 doesn't add much more shots plus with 9 still need to kill the same amount to force leadership test. I might drop one or two Koptas as they are just kill point bait. One or two is great for alpha strike of contesting objectives but this game they just have kill points away and nothing else. Last time I used Deff Dreads I didn't find them impressive but they do take away shots from the Kanz so I might add them back in but only in a combat roll only to keep them cheap as last time I tried them with rokkits they did nothing.

Craig did well getting his targets right first taking out some Lootas with flamers so no cover saves and then focusing on a single Kan unit and Boyz mob until they was gone. After that he dealt with me when I wanted and just had to ride with some of my bad luck, plus he plays Kan Wall himself so he knows the tactics

What about reducing the number of boys slightly, dropping a DK or two and taking up some blood axe infiltrators?
It could potentially force your opponent to watch his deployment more carefully, maybe even push him forward slightly which is obvously better for a Kanwall.
They could also pick off isolated/reduced units much quicker then boys slogging across.
Even a large unit of storm boys?

edit: actually vs that much mech they probably wouldnt be that effective but for other matchups a possibility.

Reducing the Boyz numbers wouldn't be a good idea as I need as many as I can get. Koptas I think I'm going to drop two of them and readd Deff Dreads which work well for target saturation but I must keep them cheap. The only infiilitrators are Kommandos, which I wouldn't take anyway, do you mean them?

Storm Boyz might come in handy with this list. But I fear they might end up out of KFF range.

Yeah sorry, showing my age calling them blood axes - meant kommandos. Agreed, I forgot vs mech the kommandos dont pack any real punch.
However the storm boys with da captain might cause some damage espeically with the way your opponent setup, he had bit of a parking lot going on. Do you think the capatin might have been able to multicharge the side/rear of any of the tanks? Cant quite tell from the pics.

Could have multi charged tanks as they was packed together. TBH I've tried Deff Dreads and I haven't been massively impressed so I might try Stormboyz.

I've tried the DDs myself and I just find them very very slow.
Throw in some heavyish terrain setups and with taking constant DTs they become even slower.
I found people used to target them, saving other parts of the army from fire but of late they simply get ignored whilst contributing not a lot.

You're totally right about the Deff Dreads but in that same case Kanz are the same only difference is Kanz have a better purpose.

They are good for target saturation as you said but then people catch on and ignore them.

Storm Boyz sound interesting but I can only afford a unit of 15 and I am not sure how long they would last. I might actually just stick with the Deff Dreads as they are not expensive.

In my last game against orks I ignored the deffdread all game and it did nothing until the last shot of the game when he shot at my farseer and instagibbed him lol

at Farseer though that's what I am worried about the Deff Dreads. Take them and they do bugger all. I've played one game without them and I didn't miss them and player two games with them and they did bugger all. Maybe 20 Storm Boyz as a distraction unit or back to more Koptas roaming about?

What about dropping a Kan or two, one DK, reducing the boys to about 25/26 per squad and taking a unit of bikers?
I dont have my codex to hand so cant say how many you'd get but it would give a fast unit, capable of tying up enemy HWs or light troops whilst the other units advance.
They could be used to suppliment the 2 other Dks in a sort of quick strike role.
T5 with 4+ exhaust saves gives them some duarability and they pack moderate anti-infantry firepower. Throw in a knob with Pk and you have some anti tank ability too.

Yeah, the farseer sure as hell didn't see the rokkit coming

I always get distracted by koptas, I know that they are pretty good at tying up my walkers for a turn or two.

Are stormboys the jump pack ones? If so they would worry me! Better than my guys in cc and can keep up with me around the table too, thats scary stuff :(

Ratius wrote:What about dropping a Kan or two, one DK, reducing the boys to about 25/26 per squad and taking a unit of bikers?
I dont have my codex to hand so cant say how many you'd get but it would give a fast unit, capable of tying up enemy HWs or light troops whilst the other units advance.
They could be used to suppliment the 2 other Dks in a sort of quick strike role.
T5 with 4+ exhaust saves gives them some duarability and they pack moderate anti-infantry firepower. Throw in a knob with Pk and you have some anti tank ability too.

No, not dropping any Kanz or else it won't be a Kan Wall it will just be half a Kan wall lol. I think I'm going to go back Dethkoptas and use them differently as fast attack is the only slots I have open and I don't want any normal vehicles.

Metallicarule wrote:Yeah, the farseer sure as hell didn't see the rokkit coming

I always get distracted by koptas, I know that they are pretty good at tying up my walkers for a turn or two.

Are stormboys the jump pack ones? If so they would worry me! Better than my guys in cc and can keep up with me around the table too, thats scary stuff :(

Dethkoptas are exactly what you said; good for tying units up.

yes Stormboyz are the jump pack ones but you roll a dice for additional movement and if you get a 1 you lose a Stormboy which isn't cool.

deffkoptas for the win. Bad rolls are bad rolls, more games you play with them the more you'll like having them in the army. Even when they don't earn their points in killing, they earn it in firepower and attention that gets drawn to them. An opponent who knows them, knows to not let them fly around long.
I think you just should of run your boyz. And if you drop all the big shootas you can add a loota to each squad, and it doesn't seem like it, but if you get 3 shots, that's 9 extra loota shots. Not a horrible deal. Especially when you need 5 and 6's to hit.
Against mek armies big shootas are crap, if you werre fighting DE you'd be happy though, or other orks, or nids, or Eldar. So don't hate the big shootas just yet.
Anyways nice report man, looking forward to the next one.

Koptas I've used for a long time and know exactly how they work.

Big shootas are anti infatntry not mech and i have got enough shootas anyway

Emmmm, you do seem like a hobbyist now that I peer at your point marker...

Blood Angels - 2000 Iron Warriors - 2000 Orks -2000 Imperial Guard - 2000
Eldar - 2000 Hive Fleet Krakken - 2000

Wow!
Anyways, didn't know, thought you were considering dreds because you were contemplating if they were worth more their bang than the koptas on not having played koptas.
I'm not a fan of dreds. ONly good thing about them is they can monster over an objective if you troop choice 'em, but they are big, slow, BS2 and easily avoided in a competitive game. Maybe they would keep your boyz moving forward longer. If they had heavy flamers, I bet your enemy would want to target them before they got any closer. Eating up alot of fire for your kans and boyz to march up more before getting shot, maybe. But, just a thought.
Me I like big shootas just because I like rolling more dice. If I'm not rolling more dice with orks I feel like I'm gonna lose.
p.s. why cybork up the BigMek??

Hmm... Not trying to sound rude (that is, I'm asking a blunt question, expecting a blunt answer- perhaps I should say instead that I'm not trying to call the OP's honesty into question) but do you know how a Kan Wall works? You seem to say in your post that you're not usually a Kan Wall player (and your proxying seems to support that). Just wanted to make sure you know that KFF gives a 4+ cover Save to vehicles (including Kans), and those Kanz in turn give a 4+ cover save to your boyz, for shooting through the Kanz.

Just seemed like you lost a lot of boyz from behind a still- functioning Kan Wall, is all. Though that might just be my inexperience with Guard showing- if a Griffon is indirect fire, and all.

what a cheesy ig list rofl

Runna wrote:Emmmm, you do seem like a hobbyist now that I peer at your point marker...

Blood Angels - 2000 Iron Warriors - 2000 Orks -2000 Imperial Guard - 2000
Eldar - 2000 Hive Fleet Krakken - 2000

Wow!
Anyways, didn't know, thought you were considering dreds because you were contemplating if they were worth more their bang than the koptas on not having played koptas.
I'm not a fan of dreds. ONly good thing about them is they can monster over an objective if you troop choice 'em, but they are big, slow, BS2 and easily avoided in a competitive game. Maybe they would keep your boyz moving forward longer. If they had heavy flamers, I bet your enemy would want to target them before they got any closer. Eating up alot of fire for your kans and boyz to march up more before getting shot, maybe. But, just a thought.
Me I like big shootas just because I like rolling more dice. If I'm not rolling more dice with orks I feel like I'm gonna lose.
p.s. why cybork up the BigMek??

Thanks man, I kno longer have the Iron Warriors or Eldar anymore, but I'm going to start a new army soon and also Necrons.

Everything you said about Deff Dreads is right, but they can only contest objectives as they are vehicles. Any player who knows his stuff goes for the Kanz first anyway and forgets the Deff Dreads.

And you're right, cyborking the Big Mek is pointless. I'm probably going to add burnas for when they get into combat and be done with it.

Anvildude wrote:Hmm... Not trying to sound rude (that is, I'm asking a blunt question, expecting a blunt answer- perhaps I should say instead that I'm not trying to call the OP's honesty into question) but do you know how a Kan Wall works? You seem to say in your post that you're not usually a Kan Wall player (and your proxying seems to support that). Just wanted to make sure you know that KFF gives a 4+ cover Save to vehicles (including Kans), and those Kanz in turn give a 4+ cover save to your boyz, for shooting through the Kanz.

Just seemed like you lost a lot of boyz from behind a still- functioning Kan Wall, is all. Though that might just be my inexperience with Guard showing- if a Griffon is indirect fire, and all.

Yes I know about the cover saves Reason is the Guard play indirect fired the artillery so firing OVER the Kanz and no through them which is 5+ cover save instead of 4+ which makes a bit difference. Plus the Guard player plays Kan wall and has more experience with Kanz than I have

Smitty0305 wrote:what a cheesy ig list rofl

No such thing as cheese

Really depends on the shot... If he's firing the manticores at the boys then its Ordanance Barrage, different to plain old Ordanance. Ordanance Barrage is a shot that goes up in the air and rains down, like Orbital Barrage and Whirlwinds for marines, or Manticore or Basilisk shots for Guard.... Plain Ordanance is a large blast, but it fires along the ground, like the majority of other fire, based on a straight line between A and B. The difference is that Ordanance barrage shots don't let you get a cover save, so the Manticires would just be shootin plain old boyz and ignorin the Kans entirely, although correct me if i'm wronbg here......


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And I forgot to mention, nice rep as usual mercer, tho its always a pity to see the boyz go down... :-(

Had a game against my mate's guard last night.. Did the Deffkopta alpha strike and three of his tanks (2 Punishers and a standard Leman Russ), went up before he'd even moved... The game was pretty much a formality from then on.
Don't think i'll be using the Koptas again.... They're TOO good, and kinda ruin the game!!!

Vicky you're correct about the barrage firing over the Kanz, so just the KFF saves only.

Thanks about the bat rep and Deffkopta alpha strike is cool . Why you not using them again though?

Oh i'd use them in a tourney if I ever enter one, but in friendly games, it kinda ruins it.... I want the people I play against to play me again, not be scared off by insta-gibbing tanks every time.... So i'm taking em out of the running in my 'friendly' lists....


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Also, the KFF save is a cover save too, so you don't get that either..



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I stopped playing my Kan Wall a while ago when my SW mate just kept using Jaws on my Mek every game......

When I saw "Heavy Support: Manticore...Manticore...GRIFFON!? WTF?", I know Mercer wasn't running the Guard.

Great battle report, thanks man.

Vichyssoise wrote:Oh i'd use them in a tourney if I ever enter one, but in friendly games, it kinda ruins it.... I want the people I play against to play me again, not be scared off by insta-gibbing tanks every time.... So i'm taking em out of the running in my 'friendly' lists....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the KFF save is a cover save too, so you don't get that either..



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I stopped playing my Kan Wall a while ago when my SW mate just kept using Jaws on my Mek every game......

I'm not really following you why you wouldn't take Koptas for. Friendly game is the same just tournament is more competitive.

You still get saves from ordnance, they do not deny cover saves. You work out cover from the centre of the blast and the Big Mek gives cover thanks to KFF.

I think you're been a sore loser about JOWW

NuggzTheNinja wrote:When I saw "Heavy Support: Manticore...Manticore...GRIFFON!? WTF?", I know Mercer wasn't running the Guard.

Great battle report, thanks man.

Nah not mine mate my lists are always first

Yes, I think anything that makes my tactics look silly is OP... Its the nature of the game... ^^

I'd rather not take Koptas and use them like that as it scares the opposition off, and i'd actually like to play him again without him going 'Whats the point'?? :p

Why would it scare him off for? Person should play you disregarding what you're taking. What the Kopta can do is really cool so why cut your nose off to spite your face?

hey its a personal choice, and imo its OP, so I wanna see what I can do without em!!! They are also a lot of points, I can almost get a full 30 boyz for the same price!!

Eh? A single Kopta is 70 points with twin-linked rokkits and buzzsaw. A full size mob of 30 Boyz is 180 points which is no where near the same

As for over powered it seems you haven't seen over powered

nah, I meant the three Koptas... 210 points, and upgraded mob of 30 boys is 220... So close!!!


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Oh and I have seen overpowered, I've played against Mephiston.... ^^

Yeah is pretty close but it's apples and oranges though.

Meph, hmm he's pretty interesting but has some weaknesses which can be exploited like not been a I.C and no invulnerable save. I think he has fleet though if I remember right.

The no invun is made up for through by a silly Toughness 6. Boyz wounding on 6s.... He's not impossible to kill, but certainly OP...