Future new units in the next CSM Codex

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**IronChaos**

Hi there!

First of all: if there's already a topic about this, please excuse me!
I wanted to make a discussion about which new units could CSM get in their next codex edition, apart from adding marks to units like Terminators, Dreadnoughts and Defilers. Reason: there are already other armies that got new units in that way in their current codex, like Tyranids (Trygon), SM (Land Raider variants AFAIK) or DE (aircraft).
Personally I would love to see daemonic engines like Khorne Slaughterers and Nurgle Blight Drones (I love these ones ^^). They would be unique to CSM and would grant them vehicle squadrons and even fast skimmers (drones), apart from apporting fire and CC support and being fluffy. Also, Renegade Militia would be a great way on getting cultists (yay!).

What do you think about this? What are your ideas? Please comment! ^^

**A-P**

Drop Pod/Dreadclaw. Obviously.

**IronChaos**

A-P wrote: Drop Pod/Dreadclaw. Obviously.

I forgot about those ones.

**Amanax**

I don't know if they really need much more... just fix what they have! Of course a few things would be cool, like cultists, and the dreadclaw, perhaps even some new elite choices... but the fixes I think would come first. Once things were fixed, the codex would give you plenty of choices.

On that note, I will shamelessly promote Dave's Chaos Codex for him...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/340878.page

**asimo77**

Non marine Chaos factions need to be represented. Heretics, cultists, and traitors of all stripes. Also daemons should be put back with Chaos as one book.

They should do what they did with deldar, you can make coven, wych, kabalite, or a mix of those 3. For Chaos there should be rules for marines, daemons, LatD, and any mix of the 3.

**Brother SRM**

Big hordes of cultists who are super cheap and not terribly good on a man for man basis. Make them great in large numbers and GW gets to sell lots of spacemen and we get to use a characterful unit.

**Azure**

Really hoping for mutants and Lost and the Damned like units, such as traitor guard working with cultists en masse

**Agent_Tremolo**

I'd love to see non-astartes units thrown in for the sake of variety: Daemon engines, traitor militia, dark mecanicus, cultists...

And, maybe unrelated, they are in dire need of new, redesigned minis. Some of their stuff is not aging well... I'm looking at you, Night Lords!

**svendrex**

If anything Chaos should be split into more books rather than less books.
You have 9 legions, each one with a very different fighting style. there is no way to combine that AND the Daemons of Chaos into one book without it being 200 pages.

My Plan:

Chaos: Daemons
Strongest Daemons
keep the deployment rules, (maybe make them a little less random on the first drop) it makes them a unique army.
Give them more ways to deal with tanks at range (for each god, but just Bolt) and they will be fine

Chaos: Legions
Represents Black Legion, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, 1k Sons, Death Guard.
God Specific, Elite Marines. No normal CSM here.
God specific lesser/greater daemons, but less powerful/cheaper than the Codex Daemon ones.
Everything can take Marks, including all of the tanks and such.
Actual Terminators/dreads (different stat lines) for each god.

Chaos: Renegades
Represents Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Lost and the Dammed
Everything is Chaos Undivided
Large horde units of Cultists, Mutants or traitor guard lead (buffed) by "normal" CSM
Some siege weapons and sneaky specialists
Summoned daemons but only Undivided ones

I think that this way it would be possible to make lists that would fit the fluff of each traitor legion, without hacing a single massive book

I think that this way would be the easiest to balance as well, as it keeps the powerful but random daemons away from the Reliability of a regular army.
Also, it gives the 2 CSM books a very different flavor. One is a "super elite" MEQ book, the other in a hybrid of Horde and MEQ.

Drop the Dark Angel book to make room for it. It would be very easy to just make them 2 special characters in the Regular Space Marine book to represent the Deathwing and the Ravenwing. Every other Company of DA's mostly follow the Codex.

**juraigamer**

Give me cultists or give me cake!

**Lint**

Cultists would be good.

Dark Mechanicus units would be awesome.

Mostly though I just want legion specific rules again. Something simple like an FOC catalyst, similar to the old IW armies.

Bring back the sacred numbers.

God specific daemons.

**candy.man**

Ideally, Chaos would function best under 3 separate codices however the actuality is that they probably won’t get a separate codex.

I can defiantly see the Dark Eldar treatment occurring here, with different flavours of chaos available depending on what HQ is taken (GD = daemons, Khorne Lord = Berserkers etc). I’d like to see something similar to the 3.5 marks rules brought back (which allows any unit to be customised to a cult marine unit). This would leave more room in terms of codex design as the cult marine units would then not have to be statically listed, leaving more wiggle room for the rules designers.

I’d also like to see some the god specific lesser daemons brought back in the next book. The daemons book should still have exclusive access to the specialised daemonic units such as bloodcrushers/heralds/Soul Grinder etc to ensure the daemons book is still a separate force from the CSM book.

**the color purple**

I'd support most of what's said above. Aside from that, new, Chaos-specific vehicles would be good. Variants on the rhino and land raider and entirely new stuff like the defiler. Fluffwise it makes sense that the Dark Mechanicus would be able to implement variations on the STC vehicles that the Mars guys wouldn't allow, and it would be really cool if they wrote in some STCs that a Chaos legion uncovered on a conquered world-new rhino/lr variants that Chaos gets and loyalists don't. The sky's the limit as far as Demon engines go, though as a WB player I hope not all of them are god-specific.

**crocodoom**

I think every legion should get its own commander eg
Abbadon - Black Legion, Typhus- Death Guard etcetc
I mean, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords andWord Bearers are Really Missing out
Also, like each god has its own unit like Noise Marines to Slaanesh And Beserkeres to Khorne, There should be one to Chaos Undivided and/or Malal ( If/when GW brings him back )

**Nightwalker**

Most of the things listed here are on Forgeworld and i doubt that GW will pulling much from Forgeworld

**Brother SRM**

Nightwalker wrote:Most of the things listed here are on Forgeworld and i doubt that GW will pulling much from Forgeworld

Because GW never ever does that, right?

I think at the very least the option to mark lesser daemons should be there. I can understand GW wouldn't want to basically put the entire Chaos Daemons codex in the back of the Chaos Marines book, but being able to mark daemons would be a band aid on the situation.

**Ensis Ferrae**

svendrex wrote:
Chaos: Legions
Represents Black Legion, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, 1k Sons, Death Guard.
God Specific, Elite Marines. No normal CSM here.
God specific lesser/greater daemons, but less powerful/cheaper than the Codex Daemon ones.
Everything can take Marks, including all of the tanks and such.
Actual Terminators/dreads (different stat lines) for each god.

Chaos: Renegades
Represents Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Lost and the Dammed
Everything is Chaos Undivided
Large horde units of Cultists, Mutants or traitor guard lead (buffed) by "normal" CSM
Some siege weapons and sneaky specialists
Summoned daemons but only Undivided ones

Yes, except that in this representation, Black Legion should be with the Renegades, since they are generally undivided. I honestly think that they could create a flavorful codex of "human" chaos worshipers and still have a good dex. If you gave access to a block of human fighters (call them cultists, renegades, mutants, etc.) you would bring back the option of a truly fluffy Word Bearers legion, you could have an Alpha Legion "spy/infiltrator" army ie. the block of people could take various upgrades/weapons, plus one CSM as a champion. Honestly, I would make these blocks, with no upgrades as cheap if not cheaper than standard guardsmen or conscript guardsmen. But, I would also have a very large amount of upgrades available, to where the unit would be the most versatile in the whole codex (to match the needs of their parent war band/legion).

I would bring into play, the fluff that each Chaos god doesnt particularly like the other. If you take a unit of say, Khorne Berzerkers, and a unit of 1k Rubric Marines; If they are within a certain range of each other, they have "Animosity". This animosity rule could be similar to WHFB OnG, where they have to pass a LD test, or else they have to fight each other, instead of the actual enemy. This would not apply to generic CSM squads who take opposing marks, only those who have fully gone over to one god or another, or came from the parent legion of that god.

Also, since the trend has been to have SCs from various codices be linchpin units that grant builds and bonuses to a whole army (such as the marine's chapter tactics rules, Marneus Calgar, Vulkan, etc.), so this would mean some changes to Abaddon, Typhus and their buddies.

**Omegus**

crocodoom wrote:Malal ( If/when GW brings him back )

Never. Malal is gone forever.

**Grimtuff**

Omegus wrote:
crocodoom wrote:Malal ( If/when GW brings him back )

Never. Malal is gone forever.

The Sons of Malice and the Dreadaxe weapon option would respectfully disagree.

**lunarman**

I'd love to see Dreadclaw assault/drop pods
More daemon engines, so Khorne Slaughters, Blight Drones...
Cultists/Traitor Guard
Guard Vehicles in some small form. I mean, nothing like a chaos guard dex. But the ability to have guard/cultists with tanks and space marines in the same army
Real chaos space marine veterans, with mad skills. Like squads of space marine captain equivalents (like chaos paladins) for a high points cost, madly customisable unit.
Sorcerers coven
Good fast attack of some sort. Maybe bikers, maybe daemons but also new things. A chaos flyer?

**Cerebrium**

Give me the old Iron Warriors "Trade 2 FA for one Heavy slot".

And actual warsmiths.

And basilisks.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

Give me cultists/mutants. That's what I want.

**Grimtuff**

Cerebrium wrote:Give me the old Iron Warriors "Trade 2 FA for one Heavy slot".

And actual warsmiths.

And basilisks.

Okay, okay. But by the same token make multiples of CSM FA worth taking. The IW one always seemed like a cop-out as both Raptors and Bikers were crud/overpriced and they could not take Daemons. What IW player was going to take 2 units of Bikers and/or Raptors?

"Rats! I can't do it now!"

**Shaman**

Aside from Doom Rider..

They also need Anti Grey Knight Malaites/Malicites. Ward can make them some stupid fluff and shiny rules..

**Leigen_Zero**

As for cultists/LatD, they can be represented by the same unit so I don't see the need for both to be repped.

I think multiple legions could be repped by HQ special rules in line with C:SM e.g. if you take Typhus, all things receive free MoN. Doomrider makes bikers troops, Iron Warriors dude makes havoc squads troops etc etc.

I would love to see some more vehicles that ARENT land raider or rhino variants, still, considering the release schedule it's going to be a long long wait...

**svendrex**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Yes, except that in this representation, Black Legion should be with the Renegades, since they are generally undivided.

My understanding of the Fluff was that the Black legion was less "undivided" and more of a "each marine picks a different god to worship"

In terms of the book, you would have 4 "fuffy" build that were mono-god, and then the Black Legion would be the "fluffy" mixed god list.

I do like the animosity Idea. Perhaps it would be lessened or removed by taking Abadon, as he has generally unites the different legions.

**King Pariah**

Grimtuff wrote:
Omegus wrote:
crocodoom wrote:Malal ( If/when GW brings him back )

Never. Malal is gone forever.

The Sons of Malice and the Dreadaxe weapon option would respectfully disagree.

There are rumors they're bringing him back with a new name, Malice or something along the lines of Melkidrith. Yes...

**ZeFelix42**

Dark Mechanicus would be sweet. I'd die to actually have them. feels dirty playing Codex Marines for techies.
Then there's of course Malal/Malice/whoever. I'd love to use things along the lines of that.
If anything I'm not so much for Units as I am for Wargear/Upgrades. I think they could really use alot of the older edition stuff to really make them feel like chaos. Not just Spikey Bit Vanilla with MCs to back 'em up...hm..that sounds alot like shiny grey marines...

**ShatteredBlade**

Dark Mechanicus battle engines, more Daemons, stronger emphasis on their use of cults.

**Just Dave**

I too would like to humbly suggest my Chaos Space Marine (fan) Codex, it's got most of what's been asked for:

Legion Rules

Non-Astartes/Chaos Space Marine Units (i.e. Heretics/Cultists)

Land Raider Variants

Dreadnought Marks/Variants

Defiler Marks/Variants

Predator Variants/Customisation

Dark Mechanicus Representation

A Chaos Space Marine Flyer

Daemon (Lesser & Greater) Marks/Variants/God-specific

Sacred Numbers

FoC Multipliers

Customisable Elite Terminators

5th Edition-updated units throughout

More Psychic Powers

Psychic Defence

Gifts of Chaos

Reflection of the influence of the Chaos Gods

And More!

Seriously, please check it out. It's got some really good feedback and people are already using it in their games, with their friends approval too! It's all fitted into a single Codex, no larger than the existing Codices and not over-loaded with options or complication. It doesn't force you to play Chaos in a certain way, but it gives you the option to make your army as characterful as you want.
It also answers the OP as these are all the things I would like to see included in the next Codex too.