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The video is graphic so be warned.




There is more video where they just show him bleeding out, I feel it's too graphic for here.

The public is creating quite an uproar over the death of Sarfraz Shah. Of course they are blaming the US for providing training for the Pak security forces.

The problem I have is that this guy used a gun to try to rob people only minutes earlier, he then repeatedly touches the guns of the security force. He was not complying with the demands of security and was actively engaging them. He was far from the innocent youth he is being painted as.

My only problem with the Pak security is that they should have called a medical team. The shooting though seams justified.

Although the closer I look, it does appear he tried to jump into the back of the truck before one of the guards sticks a fanfal in his face. So maybe he knew the intent was always to kill him and that is why he resisted. Anyone here understand what they were saying ?

gak, if someone is grabbing my gun and walking towards me when I tell them to back the feth off, you better believe I'm putting two in them.

Very unfortunate stuff and several problems like the lack of medical attention afterwards.

I wonder why the guy in the vid wasn't put in handcuffs or held in some way if he had a weapon earlier and engaged in criminal activity.

The training of the "Rangers" leaves a lot to be desired as well. You don't point your weapon at someone unless you're going to kill. Which they eventually did I suppose....

Pakistan is rough country. I've been there to visit friends, and it definitely ranks pretty high on my list of "places where you don't feth around."

I lived in Dubai for 5 years, the Pakistani expats there were treated like gak. I would have figured that they would get better treatment in their own country.

Karon wrote:gak, if someone is grabbing my gun and walking towards me when I tell them to back the feth off, you better believe I'm putting two in them.

He's surrounded by armed men, and he's hardly making a grab for the weapon to try and get it off him. You can see he's bowing down, trying to push the gun down away from it pointing to him. He's obviously pleading with the guy, not trying to attack him.

This looks like a sloppy, drawn-out execution.

I suggest you watch another version of the footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_92xgnobzQ

This one provides a translation and clearer footage, it has similar content cutting the shooting scene short.

Perhaps the teenager paniced, it looks like he believed he would be summarily shot ?for using a fake gun in a holdup? then tried to point gun barrels away from him. The first times he grabbed at a gun nothing happened. When he was actually shot it does not appear he was in contact with a gun and indeed had been pushed back by another soldier.
He seemed to have a problem with one soldier in particular, he was pleading for his life, but not apprenelty to the others. This was the soldier who later shot him, its leaves it open as to whether the young man saw his end coming and whether he was reacting in a blind panic or realistically to his plight.
I wonder if Sarfaraz Shah and the soldier who shot him knew each other, had a feud or held a grudge. that video opens a lot of questions, no wonder it is proving to be such a powderkeg.

His pleading was directed at the only soldier who was pointing a gun at him, most likely because he was the only guy pointing a gun at him.

Also, that translation is crap, I don't speak Urdu, but its clear that only select bits were translated.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I lived in Dubai for 5 years, the Pakistani expats there were treated like gak. I would have figured that they would get better treatment in their own country.

Karon wrote:gak, if someone is grabbing my gun and walking towards me when I tell them to back the feth off, you better believe I'm putting two in them.

He's surrounded by armed men, and he's hardly making a grab for the weapon to try and get it off him. You can see he's bowing down, trying to push the gun down away from it pointing to him. He's obviously pleading with the guy, not trying to attack him.

This looks like a sloppy, drawn-out execution.

Uh, he's grabbing the gun. If he wanted to live, he would keep his hands away from the damn gun and shut his mouth.

Orlanth wrote:
I suggest you watch another version of the footage.

Was that at me or OP?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_92xgnobzQ

This one provides a translation and clearer footage, it has similar content cutting the shooting scene short.

Perhaps the teenager paniced, it looks like he believed he would be summarily shot ?for using a fake gun in a holdup? then tried to point gun barrels away from him. The first times he grabbed at a gun nothing happened. When he was actually shot it does not appear he was in contact with a gun and indeed had been pushed back by another soldier.
He seemed to have a problem with one soldier in particular, he was pleading for his life, but not apprenelty to the others. This was the soldier who later shot him, its leaves it open as to whether the young man saw his end coming and whether he was reacting in a blind panic or realistically to his plight.
I wonder if Sarfaraz Shah and the soldier who shot him knew each other, had a feud or held a grudge. that video opens a lot of questions, no wonder it is proving to be such a powderkeg.

The soldier who shot him was very quick to jam the weapon into the young guy's face when he was caught. Even the other soldier, wielding the (fake?)pistol looks shocked at how quickly it turned into a killing.

Maybe the soldier who killed him could have been related to whoever was the victim of the suspected robbery?

@Karon: Watch the video again. The soldier runs up and shoves the gun in Shah's face, Shah makes movements to push the gun down from him and begs for his life, the soldier pushes Shah away and then shoots him.

Even a half-wit would see this was not self-defence on the soldier's part.

Emperors Faithful wrote:@Karon: Watch the video again. The soldier runs up and shoves the gun in Shah's face, Shah makes movements to push the gun down from him and begs for his life, the soldier pushes Shah away and then shoots him.

Even a half-wit would see this was not self-defence on the soldier's part.

Karon can be quite cold sometimes.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
I suggest you watch another version of the footage.

Was that at me or OP?

At anyone reading the OP. The second link gave better coverage and translation to shows the gist of what the young man was saying.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
The soldier who shot him was very quick to jam the weapon into the young guy's face when he was caught. Even the other soldier, wielding the (fake?)pistol looks shocked at how quickly it turned into a killing.

Like I pointed out, it appeared Shah beleived he had problems from the outset with only one soldier. However two others were held at the ready to shoot, the soldier closest to camera and one other. these soldiers acted more professionally had the gun ready with room to swing up but nevertheless pointed at the ground. If you look at those soldiers body language they were alert and ready to aim and fire. The solider holding the young mans attention had gone only one step further. So in real terms he had three 'threats', but two of those were completely ignored.
Look at the killers face though, gun levelled head to head from the outset, and a blank emotionless expression. Shah knew where the threat was, and it went beyond number of guns pointed at him from the body language of two other soldiers, yet Shah ignores them completely which would not make sense as he was surrounded by 'threats' unless he saw something in that particular soldier that indicated he would shoot anyway. We see that something also when the soldiers face was to camera, quite unlike the expressions of the other soldiers. Did he have a reputation as a killer on the streets, did Shah pick up on sometihng, was there something personal involved or was he just psychotic?

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Maybe the soldier who killed him could have been related to whoever was the victim of the suspected robbery?

Possible. The execution happened just after he was turned over with not much accompanying information, after all the arrest particulars were vague and did not appear to be discussed much beyond 'here is a criminal'.
I think it more likely that the soldier who shot Shah knew Shah or had preconceptions of him that led him to consider the world a better place without him.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
@Karon: Watch the video again. The soldier runs up and shoves the gun in Shah's face, Shah makes movements to push the gun down from him and begs for his life, the soldier pushes Shah away and then shoots him.

Even a half-wit would see this was not self-defence on the soldier's part.

Agreed, if he had been shot while he while initially holding the gunbarrel the incident could have been passed off that way. When Shah was shot he had been pushed back by another soldier and was off balance and the soldier who shot him took a deliberate step forward, remaining outside arms reach and shot him with two single shots. No way as that self defence. He could have also subdued Shah at this point with the help of the other soldiers or even with his rifle butt.

Hm, I see now. Strange, really. Aren't they supposed to like cut off fingers or something for stealing over there? Or is it straight to summary execution?

@Dark - Not for any small reason ^.^

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Maybe the soldier who killed him could have been related to whoever was the victim of the suspected robbery?

Or he was simply overzealous. Don't infer more than you have to. Some people are just pricks.

dogma wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Maybe the soldier who killed him could have been related to whoever was the victim of the suspected robbery?

Or he was simply overzealous. Don't infer more than you have to. Some people are just pricks.

There's not much one can do except guess here, unless more info comes up.

Shame...
The soldier/secirity officer who did that deserves to be punished, not sure why the officials were punished.

purplefood wrote:Shame...
The soldier/secirity officer who did that deserves to be punished, not sure why the officials were punished.

The people in charge shouldn't be liable for the actions of those working under them?

If Brisbane City Police were going around summarily executing people, you can be damn sure I'd want the Brisbane City Commissioner's head on a silver plate.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

purplefood wrote:Shame...
The soldier/secirity officer who did that deserves to be punished, not sure why the officials were punished.

The people in charge shouldn't be liable for the actions of those working under them?

If Brisbane City Police were going around summarily executing people, you can be damn sure I'd want the Brisbane City Commissioner's head on a silver plate.

I haven't actually heard of other incidents like this but if this is a common thing and they haven't done anything to stop this then i think them being punished is a good call. I have heard of the general brutality but nothing this big...
Otherwise it doesn't make much sense... though i can see why they were punished in this situation now...

There are allegegations that this has been happening a lot in Karachi, and what is odd about this incident is not that it happened but that it was filmed.
Thus the denials from officials that these abuses occur are now vain. This appears to be the gist of why senior personnel are being blamed as well as the squad filmed, as stories coming out of the woodwork about similar incidents are no longer being as easily brushed off.

@Emperors Faithful. Feel free to theorise about what happened and why, this is now public domain, and also public interest (for anyone concerned with the level of 'stability' of Pakistan). Press will be guessing, public will be guessing, prosecutors and criminal psychologists will be guessing, people who knew Shah will be asking questions and guessing; politicians will be guessing what everyone else is guessing, while paramilitary chiefs will be guessing if people are guessing correctly. All in all you are in good company, speak your mind.

Classic, I saw video of his sister and mother proclaiming that he was a good boy and completely innocent. He may not have deserved to be killed like that, but the guy was a d-bag, robbing women with a fake gun. I used to see this all the time in Cleveland when some thug that was holding up a 7-11 would get shot. Your kid was not a good kid.

Andrew1975 wrote:Classic, I saw video of his sister and mother proclaiming that he was a good boy and completely innocent. He may not have deserved to be killed like that, but the guy was a d-bag, robbing women with a fake gun. I used to see this all the time in Cleveland when some thug that was holding up a 7-11 would get shot. Your kid was not a good kid.

BUT IT WAS A FAKE GUN D00D

Andrew1975 wrote:Classic, I saw video of his sister and mother proclaiming that he was a good boy and completely innocent.

...

I used to see this all the time in Cleveland when some thug that was holding up a 7-11 would get shot. Your kid was not a good kid.

Yeah, becuase a mother who has just had her son executed isn't going to view this emotionally at all. /sarcasm

This is one of your more offensive posts.

I mean, really? This is her son we're talking about. Yeah he was a criminal (not that he ever had a trial that proved it by law), but to attack the mother for mourning her son?

Disgusting.

He may not have deserved to be killed like that, but the guy was a d-bag, robbing women with a fake gun.

We know he was using a toy gun to rob someone, but the victim (or whoever got him caught) hasn't been identified so far as I can tell.

BUT IT WAS A FAKE GUN D00D

I'm sure that was a real comfort to the people he was pointing it at. I'm sure they were not in fear of their lives when he pointed it at them.

Yeah, becuase a mother who has just had her son executed isn't going to view this emotionally at all. /sarcasm

This is one of your more offensive posts.

I mean, really? This is her son we're talking about. Yeah he was a criminal (not that he ever had a trial that proved it by law), but to attack the mother for mourning her son?

Disgusting.

That's the problem, she's probably been defending him his whole life. Telling him what a good misunderstood boy he was, and that it was society's fault. I've seen it a million times. Look up Jason Saah (any similarities to Sarfraz Shah are incidental, this could be anybody of any race). His mother was crying about what a good boy he was and that the police executed him because he was an Arab, throwing the race card all over the place and screaming for people to lose their jobs and be indited. “They didn’t even give him a chance to say anything,” she said. “They didn’t give him a chance to move. Is it fair? It’s not fair what happened to him.”

He was being chased after robbing a bank. Luckily the cops had their cameras on and showed him pulling out a gun (oddly enough also fake) before the police shot him. They released the footage a day later.

http://www.fox8.com/videobeta/fda89776-3a5c-4d91-8ca4-3590af16ece5/News/Surveilance-Video-Shows-Final-Moments-of-Robbery-Suspect-s-Life

I'm just sick of family members acting like their wanted felon children (not saying that either of these specific cases are career criminals) are angels. She is not mourning, I understand mourning, I get that. She is proclaiming his complete innocence, as if he was just walking down the street and the cops shot him for Shitsandgiggles.

I rememmber a 17 year old named Rafael King who was guilty of executing 2 people downtown. His mother was on the news talking about what a good kid he was. CRAP.

Emperors faithful. I expect you will resort to cheap tricks like calling me racist again in order to get the thread closed, just like last time i didn't bow to your fragile sensibilities.

Andrew1975 wrote:
I'm just sick of family members acting like their wanted felon children (not saying that either of these specific cases are career criminals) are angels. She is not mourning, I understand mourning, I get that. She is proclaiming his complete innocence, as if he was just walking down the street and the cops shot him for Shitsandgiggles.

You don't think that a mother has a right to be a little hysterical over the execution of her son? That her anger and mourning (and only a souless bastard wouldn't see it as that) doesn't deserve a little understanding or sympathy?

You know what, you've already said the killing was justified. That says enough about your character.

Emperors faithful. I expect you will resort to cheap tricks like calling me racist again in order to get the thread closed, just like last time i didn't bow to your fragile sensibilities.

Yep, cheap tricks. Like basic human decency.

You don't think that a mother has a right to be a little hysterical over the execution of her son?

Sure, especially if he is a pillar of the community. Probably not the case here. Again, I'm just tired of it. Everybody is a innocent victim. The world was out to get them.

Hi, I lived in the murder capital of the USA! Every night there was some mother crying about her "Innocent Baby" that got shot while robbing someone, or shouldn't be put to death because "He was a good boy in a bad situation". Your good boy just shot two people execution style, where is the outlet for this chair!

Yep, cheap tricks. Like basic human decency.

I would think decent humans don't usually resort to repeated offensive and unfounded personal attacks on other people.

Andrew1975 wrote:

You don't think that a mother has a right to be a little hysterical over the execution of her son?

Sure, especially if he is a pillar of the community. Probably not the case here. Again, I'm just tired of it. Everybody is a innocent victim. The world was out to get them.

Blaming the victim is a common theme in your posts, isn't it?

Hi, I lived in the murder capital of the USA! Every night there was some mother crying about her "Innocent Baby" that got shot while robbing someone, or shouldn't be put to death because "He was a good boy in a bad situation". Your good boy just shot two people execution style, where is the outlet for this chair!

The USA is, by far, safer to live in than Pakistan.

Blaming the victim is a common theme in your posts, isn't it?

Turning belligerent aggressors into innocent victims is yours.

For one thing you don't have drones flying around blowing people up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Blaming the victim is a common theme in your posts, isn't it?

Turning belligerent aggressors into innocent victims is yours.

You're seriously of the opinion that Shah was a belligerent aggressor here?

For one thing you don't have drones flying around blowing people up.

So that gives you the right to rob people by gunpoint?

You're seriously of the opinion that Shah was a belligerent aggressor here?

1. You rob people by gunpoint. Pretty much all I need. But wait there is more.
2. Cop points gun at you, you should lay down.
3. Cop points gun at you, you should not touch said gun.
4. Cop points gun at you, you should not touch gun and follow up by approaching said officer with gun.

If you grab my gun and step into me, how would I not see that as an aggressive move? From the video it looks like it might not have been. But if I have a gun and you grab it and I step back and you follow me while touching the gun, I'm not taking chances. I know you just got caught for armed robbery. You are going down.

Andrew1975 wrote:

For one thing you don't have drones flying around blowing people up.

So that gives you the right to rob people by gunpoint?

Strawman.

You're seriously of the opinion that Shah was a belligerent aggressor here?

1. You rob people by gunpoint. Pretty much all I need. But wait there is more.
2. Cop points gun at you, you should lay down.
3. Cop points gun at you, you should not touch said gun.
4. Cop points gun at you, you should not touch gun and follow up by approaching said officer with gun.

If you grab my gun and step into me, how would I not see that as an aggressive move? From the video it looks like it might not have been. But if I have a gun and you grab it and I step back and you follow me while touching the gun, I'm not taking chances. I know you just got caught for armed robbery. You are going down.

I'm sure there's a police force somewhere in the world that would welcome people like you, people who don't seem to have a problem with shooting people who are begging for their lives. It's too bad the SS are out of business.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
I'm sure there's a police force somewhere in the world that would welcome people like you, people who don't seem to have a problem with shooting people who are begging for their lives. It's too bad the SS are out of business.

Can we count that as an invocation of Godwin's Law? Seriously, you two really need to agree to disagree rather than spend the time sniping at each other.