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I don't know if this has been done before, if it has please remove this thread.

I haven't been playing 40k long myself but being a member of dakka iv felt really good being apart of this community, and enjoyed the forums thus far.

Reason for this question was because from what iv read here and other sites, that GWS have been getting bad rep for how they have been running their company (price increases, lack of codex updates, lack of interest in the competitive scene so forth)

Since so many mix feelings about the company and their miniatures are about, i would like to read why you guys still buy 40k products, what are your opinions (if any), and if there was one thing you would ask GW todo to improve their service, what would it be?

While GW doesn't have much interest in the competitive scene, there are no shortage of tournaments and competitive events around run by independent folks. It's no big thing. GW isn't running itself very well right now, but the price increases have literally happened every year, and the lack of codex updates has been that way for, well, ever. They may have been a little more frequent in 3rd edition, but they were decidedly slimmer with fewer options.

I still buy GW models (well I'm working through my backlog atm but you get the idea) because I really like them, I really enjoy 40k, and I spend carefully. If I could change GW to do anything, lowering prices would be lovely as they're eventually going to hit the boiling point of cost, but I'd really love GW to do more public playtesting and more previews. Getting customer feedback, while much of it will be white noise from people who will love everything or hate everything, is still worth doing and shows trust in the playerbase.

I don't. I won't support a company that won't support me. Their (lack of) business acumen and apparent hatred of their customers leaves me disgusted. If I could change anything it would be for them to be run by gamers again. People who love the game more than the money. Perhaps I'm biased being in Oz and having to pay double for anything I want to buy, but that's also part of the problem.

I buy 40k stuff because I love all the aspects 40k.

CoI wrote:I don't. I won't support a company that won't support me. Their (lack of) business acumen and apparent hatred of their customers leaves me disgusted. If I could change anything it would be for them to be run by gamers again. People who love the game more than the money. Perhaps I'm biased being in Oz and having to pay double for anything I want to buy, but that's also part of the problem.

I know that feel bro.

All i buy is paint these days, even the glue there is expensive, and you get a tiny amount for it

MikZor wrote:
All i buy is paint these days, even the glue there is expensive, and you get a tiny amount for it

That's why you buy Zap-A-Gap or what have you from any hardware store. I still buy GW paint, but that's all the new GW I've bought in quite some time.

I buy because my armies aren't finished yet. The game is fun. Is it balanced? No, but war isn't balanced. You have to learn to fight with what you have and how to be effective with it. Grey Knights are not broken and Necrons are not unplayable. (I know there is some counter opinions to that.)

All the gripes aside, I've played games from WotC, Wizkids, they all have issues somewhere in the way they run their games and their company. GW is no different in that they do things that make no since to us as the consumer but to their shareholders and stock holders it makes perfect since.

I like Battle Fleet Gothic (which is a dead game for all intensive purposes) and 40k, if they stopped making these games I would not go back to them until they made something I like again, and even I might not because I might have found some other hobby I enjoy by that point.

Brother SRM wrote:

MikZor wrote:
All i buy is paint these days, even the glue there is expensive, and you get a tiny amount for it

That's why you buy Zap-A-Gap or what have you from any hardware store. I still buy GW paint, but that's all the new GW I've bought in quite some time.

That's the plan

What I love about 40k most is the IP, the fluff. I like the whole grimdark thing. While it can be over the top ironically it also makes the game a bit more serious/meaninful for me than other games. When combined with the sheer depth of the history and fluff of the 40k system, this makes for a system with a universe that is both very appealing and always offering new angles to explore. The models themselves are a close second to the IP. I think they capture that serious, grimdark style well. As long as this is true of 40k, I will continue to play.

If I had to change one thing, it would probably be to lower the prices!! I know this is a hackneyed point, but GW's prices do not make it easy to satisfy my interest in 40k.

I no longer do. I completely stopped buying GW (unless it's a hell of a deal used like my Land Raider for $22.. still can't believe I snagged it) because of their attitude and the IP is not represented well in the tabletop form. The IP is best represented in the video games and the books, to say that its representation in the tabletop is significant makes me confused.

So, my university group and I started up Warmahordes. We're all enjoying the game and models and finding something each of us likes running even if it's in the same faction (3 of us are playing Khador, but each of us are doing it completely differently!), as well as the cheaper models and better ruleset.

Things GW would have to do in order for me to start buying from them again:

- Cut prices in HALF. Yes, 50%. There is no reason for a Land Raider or Stormraven to be $66, or Terminators to be $50, or SM tanks to be $50. When a 2,000 point army of toy soldiers can rival the price of a used car, there is something very wrong with the company making said models.
- Provide ALL codex wargear options in the box. Yes, this means conversions practically die (unless you're an Ork), but I think it's better off in the long term.
- Embrace the Internet. This means have a release schedule that's available for all to see on their site, re-open official forums, and provide public beta tests for their codices and future editions through their site. They need to make their site the central hub for all things GW, not just a glorified ad. The age of the brick and mortar store is dead, and so is paying MSRP.
- Define all of the terms they use. For example, what is considered movement? Speaking in Physics terms, is it total displacement, or distance traveled with the point of origin being where the model first stood before it moved?
- Update ALL of the codices at the release of a new edition, or within 6 months of it being released. There is no excuse for sitting on an army for 10+ years in this time period and also considering the size of GW in the wargaming industry.

A complete wipe of the current board of directors might be required. These things may not even happen at all. No one will know until they actually happen, but until then, I will no longer continue to throw money at a dying tyrant that believes it is still living in a period that occurred 20 years ago.

AresX8 wrote:The IP is best represented in the video games and the books, to say that its representation in the tabletop is significant makes me confused.

I don't understand exactly what you mean by this. Yes, a Marine on the tabletop isn't as good as a Marine in the fluff, but if they were GW wouldn't sell any models. That's just business sense. The rulebook has it written that units that fail cover saves are wounded and out of action, not necessarily killed - this makes things like Marines losing 100 models in a game more feasible if you can imagine only one in ten actually die of their wounds. Kind of stretching it, but that's the point. I think it's a good abstraction that makes the game more fun, since I'd much rather face (or field!) an army of Marines rather than 10 dudes.

Personally, I'd keep most of the design team, artists, writers, and modelmakers, and throw out the corporate types in favor of ones who care about the IPs GW has.

I still buy models here and there mostly because I just simply enjoy playing the game. Plus it's now something that me and my wife enjoy doing together. We have spent many a night wacthing TV and painting together. Is GW perfect or the best out there prolly not but I still enjoy it. I agree that prices should be lower and their whole updating policy needs to be redone but im not holding my breath for that to happen. In the meantime I buy things here and there as I can.

Brother SRM wrote:

AresX8 wrote:The IP is best represented in the video games and the books, to say that its representation in the tabletop is significant makes me confused.

I don't understand exactly what you mean by this. Yes, a Marine on the tabletop isn't as good as a Marine in the fluff, but if they were GW wouldn't sell any models. That's just business sense. The rulebook has it written that units that fail cover saves are wounded and out of action, not necessarily killed - this makes things like Marines losing 100 models in a game more feasible if you can imagine only one in ten actually die of their wounds. Kind of stretching it, but that's the point. I think it's a good abstraction that makes the game more fun, since I'd much rather face (or field!) an army of Marines rather than 10 dudes.

Personally, I'd keep most of the design team, artists, writers, and modelmakers, and throw out the corporate types in favor of ones who care about the IPs GW has.

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth SRM. I think they do a good as a job of capturing the fluff as can be expected with the rules. And if it's the aesthetic of the models that you think fails to significantly capture the grimdark and fluff, just try telling that to the Terminator Chaplain sculpt

Brother SRM wrote:

AresX8 wrote:The IP is best represented in the video games and the books, to say that its representation in the tabletop is significant makes me confused.

I don't understand exactly what you mean by this. Yes, a Marine on the tabletop isn't as good as a Marine in the fluff, but if they were GW wouldn't sell any models. That's just business sense. The rulebook has it written that units that fail cover saves are wounded and out of action, not necessarily killed - this makes things like Marines losing 100 models in a game more feasible if you can imagine only one in ten actually die of their wounds. Kind of stretching it, but that's the point. I think it's a good abstraction that makes the game more fun, since I'd much rather face (or field!) an army of Marines rather than 10 dudes.

Personally, I'd keep most of the design team, artists, writers, and modelmakers, and throw out the corporate types in favor of ones who care about the IPs GW has.

I'm mainly referring to the atmosphere.

In regards to the books:

Read the Eisenhorn omnibus. Or the Gaunt's Ghosts series. Or The Horus Heresy. Granted yes, a lot of this is due to the talents of Dan Abnett, however the point still stands, he's able to mold the IP in a way better than GW themselves can (yes even though Black Library is a strand of GW).

In regards to the video games:

Dawn of War 2 is the current best representation of the IP in video game form. Ignoring the fact that they had to do their own game balancing with the units and the scale etc, the fact that they still make each unit and weapon represent what it actually is to AFAWK (As Far as We Know) is the best representation I've ever seen.

Just watch here:



Obviously Space Marine will take this crown as being the best representation. I mean, they even got the exploding Bolter rounds down.

I agree that Space Marine will probably be one of the closest 40k experiences out there, being a Space Marine captain of all things. Relic, who also made Dawn of War 2, really know their stuff.

However, Eisenhorn/Ravener is a whole other aspect of 40k fluff. I'll agree that Inquisitors aren't as well presented as they should be - there's not much reason for an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor hanging out with the Grey Knights as they fight Daemons - but they're really well suited to an RPG style game, like Inquisitor (where Eisenhorn actually came from!) or the FFG RPGs. I think 40k as a tabletop game makes enough concessions with the fluff to still make a fun game while having the feel of the universe it has created.

I haven't bought anything 40k in quite a while, and I may actually sell what I've gotten so far (perhaps a good 2000 points of Marines).

But I am getting myself into Epic: Armageddon, albeit from second hand sources. The game seems to be everything 40k now wants to be - tactical, strategic, balanced, and has massive armies clashing as Titans (actually playable in normal games!) stomp across wasted cities.

H.M.B.C., I think, put it best in one of his posts. Love the game, hate the company. Or, in other cases, love the universe, hate the company/game. I adore the 40k universe. I have all the Gaunt's Ghost Omnibuses, the Eisenhorn Omnibus, the Ravenor Omnibus, and several Horus Heresy novels. I can't wait for the 2nd Ultramarines omnibus as well. I'm thinking about getting a Deathwatch group together.

What could GW do to make things better? Close a good bunch of their Hobby Stores, especially those near independent game stores. This should save money. Then, encourage the hobby through independents. Begin the Outrider program again.

Also, they need to end this embargo shenanigans, and get prices around the world back on track. Australians should be paying less than Americans when it comes to GW products, and yet at the moment they're paying, most of the time, twice as much.

I honestly don't care. Besides, I don't work well with large amounts of soldiers. Which means I don't buy as much.

I buy GW stuff because I like the games and the IP.

Well, that wasn't complicated at all.

Until I finally caved to the bitching at my local gaming club, I had no "official" completely GW armies. I proxied with Reaper, bitz I scrounged or got on super-discount, and even made a 3K pt Nid army from paper (www.onemonk.com, before the asshat decided to make the pdfs cost money again). While I do like GW's models and details, as people have said above, it's too damn expensive for the quality of work (Superb as it is). Plus, the ever-shifting rules and tactics means that quite often a newbie player will get an army that is less than optimal, and sometimes downright sucky (GW employees are notorious for this: "Well, of course you need an Ethereal and Stingwings. No Tau army can survive without them. Be sure to get some Nid Pyrovores and an Old One Eye too, just in case you decide to collect them too, or use them in the crossover codex we're releasing in *mumble*mumble*")

I personally think one of the best business moves GW could do atm would be to make some little plastic 2-d models in cheap packs (Sorta like those Pirates of the Spanish Main credit card ship type things), so people could test out an army. Would they lose sales of big gak like Rhinos and LR and such? Sure. But they'd also allow a player to test out more armies, and if a player can determine they enjoy a particular model, not only have they bought a $5-10 plastic kits that would cost GW pennies to make, but they'd also buy the full price kit as well. Are people not buying a fully 3d model because the rules/model appearance suck? More incentive to fix the rules/model in question!

Will GW ever do this? Probably not in my wildest dreams...

shoggoth wrote:Reason for this question was because from what iv read here and other sites, that GWS have been getting bad rep for how they have been running their company (price increases, lack of codex updates, lack of interest in the competitive scene so forth)

Since so many mix feelings about the company and their miniatures are about, i would like to read why you guys still buy 40k products, what are your opinions (if any), and if there was one thing you would ask GW todo to improve their service, what would it be?

The vocal minority pissing and moaning about the current price rises don't speak for anyone but themselves. just because they're upset, it doesn't mean the entire community is.

Personally, my friends and I play 40k. Nothing else. So yeah, if I were to go buy some Warmahordes, I wouldn't be doing much with them. I buy GW products because my group plays GW games. And, to be perfectly honest, none of us really care about the price hike. We don't go out and buy entire armies every few months. We all play one or two armies, and since we have established forces, we buy a new box occaisionally. So, say, a tactical squad costing $65au rather than $55au doesn't make much of an impact.

I really like building the stuff for some reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And playing with non-neckbeards.

I got out for several years, after 3rd edition 40k. I then found myself slowly dragged back into wargaming, first via Fields of Glory (for which I have a mostly painted 600pt MRR army), but now back into the 40k fold. It is a touch clammy, and you can't quite get around the fact that it is overpriced, but that fold seems to suit me just fine. To actually answer the question, I buy them because they look lovely, because I've discovered some insane desire to punish myself via painting Ork boyz, and because the game, whilst tactically nonsense and in no way any kind of a simulation of warfare, is a load of fun.

I often compare it mentally to roleplaying; I play a lot of RPGs, and know far too much about them. The local gaming crowd for RPGs is fun, but the people that I've met in the local 40k scene have been amazingly good opponents, and it really helps. One thing that I love about wargaming, in comparison to roleplaying or computer gaming, is the reward for time invested. If I spend all evening playing a computer game, and getting a high score, nobody rightly cares. If I spend all weekend writing a one-shot for a RPG group, maybe nobody wants to play a historical Roman game, or there is nobody free to play a game that week at the club, or whatever, and so the effort is wasted. But spending all week painting a squad of guys has so far always paid off, in the pleasure of the finished results, and the social reward of being able to put them on the table and have people asking to have a look at them. It is prideful, certainly, but it seems to make this hobby thrive, socially.

I love playing the game.
I love the models.
I love the fluff.

More importantly, I want to help keep my local FLGS in business, and the guys who work there, in a job.

I play because the game is fun and the Backstory is amazing otherwise I'd drop it faster then a Imperial Guardsmen taking a bolter round to the face.

I suppose a large dosage of nostalgia keeps my interested. I've not been a huge fan of (what I consider) recent fluff, but reading the 2nd books immersed me deeply in a world I loved when I was young. In my head, I'm still playing in that world.

And of course, I still love the minis. And I guess the game is fun to play. A fair few reasons I suppose.

Many people don't still buy GW products.

I gave up a year ago after the 2010 price rises.

I will buy something good if GW offer it -- for me this will be the new Tau Federation codex, the Orca gunship and the Tetra light skimmer. If there was some other awesome model for Tau I would buy it.

However I am completing my SM and IG armies with non-GW models.

It doesn't stop me from playing 40K.

I buy because I enjoy it. Isn't that reason enough?

PraetorDave wrote:I buy because I enjoy it. Isn't that reason enough?

of course its enough, why wouldn't you think so? this thread is just to see peoples reasons and what would they change about GWS if they could.

I want to finish off my massive Chaos Army, i have at the mo' 17,500 points of Chaos.

I am building a Chapter of about 35,000 to 40,000 points, i have so far partially built 5 companies.

If i were to come into some money i will expand this to 13 companies.

As for why i still by GW, because i don't smoke, take drugs, have any family what so evet and i'll never will have any family, i rarely drink, rarely go out and so i spend my money of Plastic Crack.

I have found something that i am truelly very good at.

I buy it because I enjoy the game and the community. Sure GW isn't perfect. I have played a few other systems and I like 40K the best by far. People will always complain. It actually shows how much people like the product. If no one cared they wouldn't complain, they would just spend money elsewhere.