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PP's rep is evolving the same way GW's did, but more quickly, thanks to this being the Information Age.
Just like GW, there's a good-sized core of gamers who are excited and motivated by what they're doing and who would love to share it with the world. But the company is large enough that the administrative, sales and marketing side have to be handled by subject-matter experts who them put restraints on the creative R&D people for good commercial reasons, but necessarily reducing the intimacy of the relationship with the consumer.
FWIW, I'm thinking about getting into MonPoc simply because it looks like the sort of game that would be accessible to both older children and adults (and I have kids). The news that new expansions are going to see the light of day only makes this more likely for me.
Manchu wrote:Yeah, I kind of wonder where PP's sterling reputation on Dakka comes from. Well, actually I know it's just GW hate and not actual PP love.
I can't speak for MonPoc, as it has never appealed to me - but in general, it might have something to do with...
- Showing previews months in advance of release (for example, Epic Baldur showed up last night, and the earliest we might see him is November)
- Actually producing figures for all models in a book (I acknowledge the MOW Bombadier issue, but they're out in October)
- Having a company-owned forum where staff (including lead background guy, staff painters and the company owner) interact with their community
- Having the Press Gang - a group of volunteers who are centrally organised to run demos/events
- Providing regular FAQs/errata as required (I think they're on a quarterly schedule at the minute)
- Not leaving an army for over a decade without an update - every faction receives stuff when there is an expansion for their game
Just a few points off the top of my head, Manchu...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2011/08/06 08:56:58
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Dysartes, very good answer! Just one thing I would add is that GW seems to be deliberately alienating everyone, hence PP is gaining a number of ex-GW hobbyists.
From an Australian point-of-view, one thing that PP has going for them is that haven't deliberately gone out of their way to shaft me lately...unlike GW !!!
Padre^.
"All GW will gain is my increased contempt for their business practices." - AesSedai
"Its terrible the way that conversion kit is causing him to buy 2 GW kits... " - Mad4Minis
"GW are hard to parody, as they are sometimes so stupid that the best in comedy couldn't beat them at their own game..." - Paradigm
2011/08/06 11:38:24
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Padre wrote:From an Australian point-of-view, one thing that PP has going for them is that haven't deliberately gone out of their way to shaft me lately...unlike GW !!!
That's right, GW made a point of singling out Australian customers, just to teach you a lesson.
Honestly, the guff that gets posted about this hobby beggars belief.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Dysartes wrote: - Actually producing figures for all models in a book (I acknowledge the MOW Bombadier issue, but they're out in October)
Bombadiers are September, October is plastic Demo Corps:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/06 14:42:37
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Manchu wrote:Yeah, I kind of wonder where PP's sterling reputation on Dakka comes from. Well, actually I know it's just GW hate and not actual PP love.
Quoted for truth.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tailgunner wrote:
Padre wrote:From an Australian point-of-view, one thing that PP has going for them is that haven't deliberately gone out of their way to shaft me lately...unlike GW !!!
That's right, GW made a point of singling out Australian customers, just to teach you a lesson.
Honestly, the guff that gets posted about this hobby beggars belief.
Criminals and hooligans, all. Introducing the bullfrog to Australia to run rampant in an ecosystem that cannot compete with it wasn't enough, we (the rest of the western world) have to shaft them on miniature games. It's only well and proper, of course, for criminals and hooligans...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/06 19:29:11
There is an attitude that not having an insanely optimized, one shot, six stage, omnidirectional, inevitable, mousetrap of an assassin list army somehow means that you have foolishly wasted your life building 500 points of pure, 24 karat, hand rolled, fine, cuban fail. That attitude has been shown, under laboratory conditions, to cause cancer of the fun gland.
Manchu wrote:Yeah, I kind of wonder where PP's sterling reputation on Dakka comes from. Well, actually I know it's just GW hate and not actual PP love.
Quoted for truth.
Nice rabble-rousing. If you try really hard, maybe you can stoke the fires of nerd outrage hot enough to ignite a flamewar. Frankly, I doubt it.
Manchu wrote:Yeah, I kind of wonder where PP's sterling reputation on Dakka comes from. Well, actually I know it's just GW hate and not actual PP love.
Quoted for truth.
Nice rabble-rousing. If you try really hard, maybe you can stoke the fires of nerd outrage hot enough to ignite a flamewar. Frankly, I doubt it.
I'll see your snarky remark, and raise you with a simple "I try." Bet's to you, sir.
Personally, I'm waiting for the hinted at PP sci-fi game, where their Land raider sized vehicle sprint around on Killa Kan legs. That will get my motor revved!
In all seriousness, your disagreement of my and others' opinions do not invalidate them, as they are opinions. You're entitled to yours just as I'm entitled to mine, and I highly doubt that either of us will convince the other of anything different. But really good effort at starting the flame war you accused me of attempting (even though I simply agreed with a previous response).
There is an attitude that not having an insanely optimized, one shot, six stage, omnidirectional, inevitable, mousetrap of an assassin list army somehow means that you have foolishly wasted your life building 500 points of pure, 24 karat, hand rolled, fine, cuban fail. That attitude has been shown, under laboratory conditions, to cause cancer of the fun gland.
The thing that killed MonPoc in my area was the random collectable nature of it. Now that they're goin back and moving away from that, I need to see about getting some games going on PP night at the FLGS and see if it does t do better this time around.
2011/08/07 12:16:37
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Yeah the random CMG thing kinda killed it for me, too. I had a legitimate interest in the game but I just couldn't stand the thought of buying a dozen boxes hoping I get all the gak I want.
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
Sidstyler wrote:I just couldn't stand the thought of buying a dozen boxes hoping I get all the gak I want.
It's almost like you're supposed to get together with a group and TRADE for the things you want using the stuff you don't.
You non-CMG players are kinda spoiled, expecting to be able to just buy what you want.
It's one of the 2 reasons I miss my old roommate(the other is displaying our Transformer collections together so that it looked massive): It's like being able to buy twice as much CMG stuff for half the cost because of an inbuilt trading and loaning partner.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/07 14:15:58
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Aduro wrote:The thing that killed MonPoc in my area was the random collectable nature of it. Now that they're goin back and moving away from that, I need to see about getting some games going on PP night at the FLGS and see if it does t do better this time around.
The thing that killed Mosterpocalypse was PP piss poor support for it. More than a year without any kind of updates or communication to the players, scrapping the original model and leaving players and retailers holding the bag, and retooling the line by giving players access to models they already payed for either from direct purchase or the secondary market. No thank you, I stopped playing WarmaHoardes because of the way they handled Monsterpocalypse.
Only now do I realize how much I prefer Pete Haines' "misprints" to Gav Thorpe's "brainfarts." :Abadabadoobaddon
2011/08/07 14:36:06
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Sidstyler wrote:I just couldn't stand the thought of buying a dozen boxes hoping I get all the gak I want.
It's almost like you're supposed to get together with a group and TRADE for the things you want using the stuff you don't.
Yeah, and if they're moving away from that like Aduro said then that must not have worked out too well for them.
From what I understand, they're NOT moving away from that, they're simply re-releasing the first set as fully playable forces(with no variation aside from the monster) for a variety of reasons(people who don't like collectible, people who can't find older stuff, as a holdover until they release the next set with the movie using existing stock, etc.). The next Series, as I understand it, IS going to be released as the game has been previously.
As Dice Monkey pointed out, the death has been more about the lack of support and releases than it being collectible. The thing with CMGs and CCGs is that you have to have constant outpouring of releases with little to no dead time. Over a year of no releases is a death warrant to a game like this.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/07 14:59:47
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2011/08/07 16:08:49
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
It is the most brilliant ruleset ever created by man (that I've seen, IMHO, and other usual disclaimers) and was wasted utterly on the CMG crowd used to rules that fit on one double-sided leaflet. It's a game that should easily appeal to miniature wargamers and probably to those hardcore military strategy guys who play wargames with hex boards and chits, too.
I think this was PP's main failing, they simply targeted the wrong market with this game. Now they're trying to compensate by re-releasing it in semi-collectible and non-collectible formats but I fear it may be too little, too late.
That said, there is enough product out there for years of enjoyable gaming even if they never release anything again, and I would heartily recommend the game to anyone, especially considering the discounts on old boosters I see all over the place. Get some friends together to split up a couple of booster cases or buy the new non-collectible box sets, and get playing.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2011/08/07 18:19:28
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Sidstyler wrote:I just couldn't stand the thought of buying a dozen boxes hoping I get all the gak I want.
It's almost like you're supposed to get together with a group and TRADE for the things you want using the stuff you don't.
Yeah, and if they're moving away from that like Aduro said then that must not have worked out too well for them.
From what I understand, they're NOT moving away from that, they're simply re-releasing the first set as fully playable forces(with no variation aside from the monster) for a variety of reasons(people who don't like collectible, people who can't find older stuff, as a holdover until they release the next set with the movie using existing stock, etc.). The next Series, as I understand it, IS going to be released as the game has been previously.
As Dice Monkey pointed out, the death has been more about the lack of support and releases than it being collectible. The thing with CMGs and CCGs is that you have to have constant outpouring of releases with little to no dead time. Over a year of no releases is a death warrant to a game like this.
They're currently rereleasing the Second series. First series was done as starter boxes, would come with two random factions, but then you had two monsters and twelve units for each faction plus I forget how many buildings. Not sure exactly how the second series boxes are being done, but I know they're labeled for what faction is inside of them, and it contains only that one faction.
I'm not sure how long it took them to put out the second series originally or when that one year gap you're talking about occured, because the game had died in my area before they did.
2011/08/07 18:22:58
Subject: Re:Interview with PP about Monsterpocalypse
Aduro wrote: I'm not sure how long it took them to put out the second series originally or when that one year gap you're talking about occured, because the game had died in my area before they did.
The Year+ gap is right now, starting last year, with regards to new releases for the main game.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2011/08/07 18:36:50
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Aduro was talking about re-releases and was pretty much correct except that the current batch contains figures from both the old series 2 and series 3 together.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
" - Mad4Minis
