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I was just thinking about the CSM heros and i think that when/if they do a new codex for them they should get rid of most of the named heros (probably not abaddon due to his position as warmaster). For example i would really like a playable profile and official model for one of the other guys like Erebus, i also want to know what happend to Aximand really badly as i wanted to make him as a chaos contemptor dreadnaught.

Opinions on this please.

I don't see them getting rid of the special characters they have. It means people won't buy their models and people who already have said models will be pissed that they can't use their toys. If they go the Codex: Space Marines route and have characters affect your army composition, I would love an Iron Warriors special character (possibly even using the existing Warsmith model) let you take Vindicators as Fast Attack choices in addition to Heavy Support or something similar.

Yeah i guess that its not very fair to people who use the named guys, it just annoys me that many of the guys who are far more intresting and more important during the heresy get no mention at all in the codex while character like Kharn and Lucious (while thay are great character and great figures) ,who didnt have particulary important role in the heresy get their own rules.

DrChaos wrote:Yeah i guess that its not very fair to people who use the named guys, it just annoys me that many of the guys who are far more intresting and more important during the heresy get no mention at all in the codex while character like Kharn and Lucious (while thay are great character and great figures) ,who didnt have particulary important role in the heresy get their own rules.

It might be because a lot of the 'big name' guys from the books are dead...

Yeah loads are dead but the ones who surrvived would all make really good guy to build and theme an army around.

DrChaos wrote:Yeah loads are dead but the ones who surrvived would all make really good guy to build and theme an army around.

How do we know who survived really? I mean, we know Kharn, Ahriman (who was actually pretty important to the Thousand Sons), Abaddon (pretty important), etc. survived, a couple Primarchs maybe, but considering GW has only just introduced a bunch of these characters with the HH series, and they have yet to resolve the storyline, we don't know much at all.

we know that Erebus surrvived and we know that aximand wasnt killed in the heresy.
yeah Arihman and Abaddon are key character but i dont see why the others especially Lucious is still in the codex. I can see why fabius is in because he hellped a great deal in the decent of the EC and i think typhus had a hand in getting the death guard and tuirned into the plauge marines but kharn also wasnt that impressive during the heresy yet they gave him a huge part in the CSM fluff.
I also just think that it would be refreshing to get some new faces in there.

DrChaos wrote:we know that Erebus surrvived and we know that aximand wasnt killed in the heresy.
yeah Arihman and Abaddon are key character but i dont see why the others especially Lucious is still in the codex. I can see why fabius is in because he hellped a great deal in the decent of the EC and i think typhus had a hand in getting the death guard and tuirned into the plauge marines but kharn also wasnt that impressive during the heresy yet they gave him a huge part in the CSM fluff.
I also just think that it would be refreshing to get some new faces in there.

Well, the way things have been going, everyone has been getting special characters out the wazoo, so you can bet there will be some new faces.

Right now they only have like, what, 5 heroes? And 2 piles of poop?

They'll never get rid of Baddon and the big 4 as they are the iconic champions of the gods. It would be nice, though, to see more legion related heroes like Talos get stat'd.

They brought in Huron which pretty much he is the symbol of Chaos Rengades. i think the OP is saying they need more themed legion-esque themed type heroes.

There is a pretty decent amount of chars they could add in/add back in..like Doomrider for example which I am sure we WILL see him come the next Chaos marine book. I know there is a notable IW char but his name escapes me atm. One for each legion would be pretty nice.

It would be nice if they did make some new legion specific characters, mostly for the Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and the Alpha Legion. Of course the Iron Warriors and Night Lords already have character models, just no rules or stats.

That just leaves the Word Bearers and Alpha Legion without models.

Slightly OT but still relevant:
So as I understand it, RT up to 2nd edition was largely character based: IE you would build your army around particular named characters, and they tended to make or break the game.
Recently looking over my 3rd ed. SM codex, I can't help but notice how terrible the IC's / named characters are. Seargent Lysander? What a useless addition. Salamanders Chaplain Xavier? Does he even do anything?

Bearing this in mind, I can't help but feel 5th+ has seen a strong return to the 'IC based army', with the inclusion of characters whose special rules inform your FOC or give a buff to particular units. Effectively encouraging you to build an army around the special IC's.
This is a pattern which is emphasised in the newer codexes, and I can't help but think the new Chaos codex will not be any different; hence I am quite willing to agree with the suggestions for potential legion specific IC's which give alternate FOC etc.

Characters in Rogue Trader were exceedingly powerful by the present edition's standards, but there were (unless I'm forgetting somebody) no named "special characters" with distinct rules until the Space Wolves and Armageddon's Ghazghkull and Yarrick, who appeared in White Dwarfs at the very tail end of the RT-era.

That said, a good few of the staple named heroes of more recent editions - Ghazghkull, Pedro Kantor and Marneus Calgar among them - were previously introduced in RT-era supplements, but as exemplars of the character-creation rules.

Second edition introduced a plethora of named characters with increasingly convoluted special rules - something which attracted significant criticism at the time. That third edition's were relatively understated may well have been a reaction to that.

On-topic: I certainly hope the Traitors will get some more interesting choices in 6th edition; legion-specific commanders who unlock different force organisations would seem the most likely option. I've never really liked this particular way of doing things, but if that's how the writers have chosen to do them, the Traitors deserve a decent selection.

The series isn't over yet. Kharn and Lucius both didn't really rise to fame until later in the story. IIRC Kharn only made a real name for himself during the battle for Terra, and didn't become the frothing psychopath we know today until after the Heresy.

Assuming the rumour about the Chaos Renegades White Dwarf ruleset being true, I suspect all of the undivided characters won’t be migrated to the Legions codex. This means that Huron, Fabius and hopefully Cypher will be listed in the Renegades codex. This leaves the legions codex with the big 5 plus an additional 4 new characters to represent the remaining legions.

Legions
• Abaddon
• Kharn
• Aramahn
• Lucius
• Typhus
• 4 new characters for the remaining Legions

Renegades
• Huron
• Fabius Bile
• Cypher
• A couple of extra characters to pad out the codex.

The reason that many of the "might be dead" characters will never get rules is because Black Library needs to write what happens to them first, otherwise there is no suspense for their fate, "oh they are in the CSM book so they must survive somehow and also turn traitor I guess"

I want to see a Daemonprince special character.

They should just scrap the whole Chaos Legions idea and give us Codex : DOOMBREED.

What about rules for Daemon Primarchs.

I have written some and put them up on DakkaDakka

Deadshot wrote:What about rules for Daemon Primarchs.

I have written some and put them up on DakkaDakka

Although it would be awesome for the fluff, outside of Apocalypse maybe any Primarch let alone a demon one would be too much of a beast on the table top or undervalued in stats

I have to agree with much of what others have said here in that it wouldn't be fair to get rid of existing characters, who for the most part did infact play a fairly big role in the HH.
I would also point out that the CSM Codex already has 7 special characters, which is still quite a lot and in-line with many 5th edition Codices (Space Wolves have 8 for example), so they don't really need many more, let alone at least 4 more for the additional Legions. Having a character for each Legion would also suggest making it character dependant, rather than introducing Legion rules which obviously isn't something many would approve of...

However, I would too like to see a Daemon Prince character, whilst I would rather not see any rules for any Primarchs due to how difficult and potentially imbalanced they may be on the tabletop.

- It's unfair to get rid of existing characters that are used etc. IMHO
- CSM's already have 7 special characters, which is pretty similar to most Codices these days

Have alook anyway and tell me what you think.I really need comments anyway and it would give you an idea of what they would be like.

Even if they don't get any new stats or rules, CSMs need new models. At least some new models anyways. A new Dreadnought, Abbidon, and Kharn... Maybe a new VEHICLE Fast Attack choice... things like that.

Deadshot wrote:What about rules for Daemon Primarchs.

I have written some and put them up on DakkaDakka

The Daemon Primarchs, and Doombreed, actually, would really only be useable in Apocalypse, considering their immense powers. Hell, Magnus, before becoming a Daemon Prince, could take down Titans that dwarf Warlords alone.

I think they should keep what they have, since, while they may not have been TOO important then (Although would argue Ahriman was), they are more relevant now. Though, if Huron Blackheart choked on a pretzel and died, would be fine with that, and he certainly doesn't deserve as much fluff as the 4e codex gives him.

A Daemon Prince special character or two would be cool.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Deadshot wrote:What about rules for Daemon Primarchs.

I have written some and put them up on DakkaDakka

The Daemon Primarchs, and Doombreed, actually, would really only be useable in Apocalypse, considering their immense powers. Hell, Magnus, before becoming a Daemon Prince, could take down Titans that dwarf Warlords alone.

I think they should keep what they have, since, while they may not have been TOO important then (Although would argue Ahriman was), they are more relevant now. Though, if Huron Blackheart choked on a pretzel and died, would be fine with that, and he certainly doesn't deserve as much fluff as the 4e codex gives him.

A Daemon Prince special character or two would be cool.

Lets just keep it on the 'fairly important characters' like Abbadon, Ahriman and Kharn (well, he did slaughter some World Eaters..)

Maybe as a new vehicle,the Stormdragon.I had the idea of converting a Stormraven into a dragon using greenstuff.Make it lose the PoMS and replace it with reduced points cost and a flame attack from the front ramp.With the abilty to carry defilers and no squad,or a single Daemon Prince and nothing else.It would be a new fast attack vehicle and give the BA and GK a run for their money.Surely the Dark Mechanicum could make them?

Surely the Dark Mechanicum would need the STC or significant access to it?
The Storm Raven is exclusive to Space Marine Chapters due to it's recency and limited access of the STC; the traitor Legions don't get it for these reasons. It's also pretty much the same thing for Space Marine Chapters not getting Stormbirds...

There is omly 1 chapter that doesn't fall.The GK.Even ultramarines and BA turn.Surely it wouldn't be hard to stael a stormraven and have a daemon possess it.Or maybe a techmarine turns and knows the blueprints and bulids one.

I'd really Like to see a Word bearers Special character. A dark Chaplain would be a great piece to field.