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The rules for the nightspinner have now been out for quite a while and I was wondering what you guys´opinion is of them.

Are they worth the loss of the anti tank of the fire prism (which is quite meh anyway...)? Also I´d be very interested in your opponents reactions to the monofilament web terrain test. Do they keep moving or do they stop?

Well, I used it twice in fun games. It never did impress me and so it will not enter my competitive mech army.

Their main purpose is against horde armies because the large blast which is ordanance (or barrage i can't remember which one) at S6 is enough to kill wuite a few under it. Plus it's 72" range covers most boards you'll play at a FLGS and the Monofilament web special rule i think is genius.

The monofilament rule actually should have loads of potential, but for some reason it just doesn´t cut it...

Kinda sad, because I really like the tank fluff wise and slowing your opponent would be awesome, if not anyone and their dog played mech nowadays....

Here are my thoughts on the night spinner.

Plan Disruption
A spinneris great at disrupting opponents plans, much like playing blue in magic the gathering.
* A mob of 30 orks is disrupted when they lose 6 to dangerous terrain tests in addition to the units killed under the blast.
* A squad of 10 fleeting shrike terminators or a wolfstar will be forced to slow down and move only 1 model to minimize expensive causalities. Losing a turn of movement with a death star in a 5-7 turn game is a large hindrance.
* Reducing the speed of a wolfstar is highly valueable -- in addition to causing wounds on them that they cannot save.
* Hitting transports and vehicles that need to move is also an excellent use of hindering plans. A LC has an extremely low chance of destroying a AV 14 crusader full of termies, but a night spinner has a 1/6 chance of immobolizing it, making the vehicle nigh-useless.

Anti-Horde
Lets face it, a large STR 6 pie plate is just good against hordes. Be it gaunts, IG foot soldiers, or orks. A well rounded army should have a solution to handle hordes, and the spinner helps to fill that role. When combined with the ability to slow down the horde, the nighspinner is a great tool for the job.

Accurate
It puts a twin-linked large pie plate with BS 3 at about a ~85% accuracy ratio to hit a vehicle. There is a 55% of getting a 'hit' under the scatter dice, and you have two chances to stay on target with your scatter dice. This means that against infantry its possible to scatter around an inch or three, but you should be in the same ballpark.
This is a nice change for otherwise lack-luster BS 3 guardians/vehicles.

labmouse42 wrote:
* Hitting transports and vehicles that need to move is also an excellent use of hindering plans. A LC has an extremely low chance of destroying a AV 14 crusader full of termies, but a night spinner has a 1/6 chance of immobolizing it, making the vehicle nigh-useless.

Also let´s not forget that it has rending. So the nightspinner actually can even penetrate AV14. Obviously I wouldn´t make that its role, but if you shoot that deathstar carrying land raider anyway, you might even kill it^^

I use 2, that;s right 2 in my competative lists and always finishing at the top of my circuit.

They are good against Hordes, true, but ork players know they have lots orks so while useful against them, they don't scare orks.

It's against the Power armor types that you really gain psychological edge. They lose a terminator/marine or two to rending and dangerous and they start to value moving, where they normally woulnd't think twice.

I am an advocate of them, but I like the fluff as much as the rules, so I'm biased.

I really like their fluff and I really WANT to like their rules aswell...

I proxied one in a game against a friends guard army. It killed 1 heavy weapons team about 8 or 9 guardsman and a basilisk(lucky shot/scatter...) with the blast and like 3 guardsmen and a powerfist sergeant with the monofilament rule. It actually got its points back that game due to me killing that basilisk, but without that I´m not sure weather I would want to pay the points for it.

Keep in mind, that my guard opponent hates movement. He literally doesn´t move unless he has to...

yeap, even against blob squads, if they don't need to move to be effective, you likely won't get as much out of them. They are better than scatter lasers vs front AV 12, since they hit on the side, for things like chimeras.

The model looks really awesome though. So I´ll probably end up buying one anyway...

don't be sad! I bought two the week they came out! IMHO they are the best looking Eldar tanks!!!

I'm sorry, but for hordes you are still better off the the Fire Prism. The Nightspinner uses the SMALL blast, whereas the fireprism has a STR5, AP4 LARGE BLAST for those hordes, and an anti-terminator or tank at str9, ap2. Fire Prisms are still very good especially when there are 3 of them on the field.

Night spinners use the large blast...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1640390a_NightSpinner_Rules.pdf

Fire Prisms are better as far as direct damage is concerned, but the TL argument, to me is moot, since you have to fire both of them at 1 target. Each Night Spinner is TL.


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I will give a nod to the Fire Sprism in one reguard. I have found that there are times that the Night Spinner is less useful, typically late in the game after I've destroy most of the enemy troops, especially when faced with AV 12(side) and up vehicles. Walkers, LR, Storm Ravens, LRBT, etc.

I also run 2 of them. I find they give you an edge over the opponent since it makes them question movement with what ever unit(s) have been hit.

They're accurate and S6 rending means that it can wound/damage most things it hits. To counteract the AT missing from prisms just take SL or EML on your WS

I´m not a fan of linking my prisms anyway... It´s like paying at least 230 points for ONE s10 ap1 or s6 ap3 blast/template. Who would buy something like taht for 230 points... Without upgrades... Imperial Guard gets a nicely upgrades LRBT and some infantry for that cost. SM almost get a landraider...

I like them if you know you are going against a horde army. But when I have to build an allround army list I rather prefer Fire Prisms and Falcons since both give you options: the fire prism can help with horde as well as anti tank, a falcon with EML will at least allow you to shoot plasma missiles against a horde and still have krak and the pulse laser.

Murenius wrote:I like them if you know you are going against a horde army. But when I have to build an allround army list I rather prefer Fire Prisms and Falcons since both give you options: the fire prism can help with horde as well as anti tank, a falcon with EML will at least allow you to shoot plasma missiles against a horde and still have krak and the pulse laser.

Thats exactly how I feel about them

Is there anything else in the Eldar codex that can fulfill their role? As far as I can see, no. So, they are valuable, at least in specific cases where what they bring is useful.

Another dimension to think about is how they synergize with the rest of the army. Are they a force multiplier, a strategic asset? I'd say yes. Sure, other things may be more killy or more aligned with your style of play, but that does not diminish the value of the spinners per se.
Btw, they were called doomweavers in the Epic Space Marines. I think doomweavers sounds better than night spinners. If it has to be spinners, why not deathspinners? They are spinning shiny strings of monofilament. Where is the night/darkness there?

Necrontyr40k wrote:Is there anything else in the Eldar codex that can fulfill their role? As far as I can see, no. So, they are valuable, at least in specific cases where what they bring is useful.

Another dimension to think about is how they synergize with the rest of the army. Are they a force multiplier, a strategic asset? I'd say yes. Sure, other things may be more killy or more aligned with your style of play, but that does not diminish the value of the spinners per se.
Btw, they were called doomweavers in the Epic Space Marines. I think doomweavers sounds better than night spinners. If it has to be spinners, why not deathspinners? They are spinning shiny strings of monofilament. Where is the night/darkness there?

Only the tank is called nightspinner. The weapon itself is actually called doomweaver. I think it´s called nightspinner, because you can´t see whats killing you...as if it were night.

Anyway I really think the monofilament rule should also slow down vehicles... Imagine that, who wouldn´t field 3 of them then?

Master Melta wrote:Night spinners use the large blast...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1640390a_NightSpinner_Rules.pdf

Actually the pdf linked here says "blast," which means small blast. If it were the large blast it would need to say "large blast." Unless I'm missing something?

When the nightspinner rules first came out, I saw opponents play a couple of them and saw how it was the small blast. I was pretty unimpressed. Then, as now, I was thinking this would be worth it if it were the large blast. But one small str6 blast from a tank that costs as much as a fire prism just isn't worth it IMO, in spite of the mostly ineffective movement effect.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Master Melta wrote:Night spinners use the large blast...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1640390a_NightSpinner_Rules.pdf

Actually the pdf linked here says "blast," which means small blast. If it were the large blast it would need to say "large blast." Unless I'm missing something?

When the nightspinner rules first came out, I saw opponents play a couple of them and saw how it was the small blast. I was pretty unimpressed. Then, as now, I was thinking this would be worth it if it were the large blast. But one small str6 blast from a tank that costs as much as a fire prism just isn't worth it IMO, in spite of the mostly ineffective movement effect.

Actually nightspinner really use the 5" big blast. Otherwise they would be pretty useless... I have the official GW ruleset printed out right before my eyes, where it says 5" template. At least in the german version...

Also BolS says its a large blast so it has to be right!

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/05/40k-news-eldar-night-spinner.html

The PDG has Large waaaaaay over on the left of the line with blast.

it's funky they way it's constructed but it's there.

Chiggity check it out.

It's a large pie in the white dwarf also, that link appears to have a typo.

Well the PDF uses just a small blast, thats why I said Fire Prisms are infinitely greater for the same cost. FYI You don't need to ALWAYS TL them. Besides IMO a large str6 ap3 blast is worth it, plus the mobility and 60" range. You can stick a fire prism in each corner provided they can see each other and can cover the whole map. Str5 Ap4 is a Tau/IG/Ork/NID killer, compared to your str 6 ap- SMALL blast.

Oh, it's a formatting issue.

The word "Large" floated off to the left margin (I finally spotted by using the cursor moving through the text) but it's definitely there.

Well then it is somewhat more worthwhile, though I'm still unimpressed by the movement effects and disappointed that otherwise good anti-vehicle capability is nerfed by AP-.

AP- also disappointingly means that it always allows armor saves, which does not synergize well with the fact that barrage weapons are great for bypassing cover.

But the fact that the vehicle is fast synergizes well with the minimum range--nothing can ever get inside the range because the tank can always back up 12" and still shoot.

The more I think about it, the more I want a nightspinner.

I mostly play jetbike eldar. So slowing the opponent down while being incredibly fast at the same time seems like a nice combo. Never again shall enemys escape my seer council^^

The PDF does not use a small blast... see my post above.


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Heavy 1, Barrage,
Large Blast, Rending,
Monofilament Web


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that's a copy paste from the PDF.

Ok i guess its now clarified that its indeed a LARGE blast´. A small blast wouldn´t be worth it, but sine its a large blast it gets very considerable, as its actually quite easy to hit multiple units at one time due to the twinlinked

Necrontyr40k wrote:Is there anything else in the Eldar codex that can fulfill their role? As far as I can see, no. So, they are valuable, at least in specific cases where what they bring is useful.

A dark reaper exarch with tempest launcher and fast shot lays down 3 small blast markers with STR 4 AP 3, which cuts down gaunts, guards and the likes pretty well. But a night spinner is harder to take down and a lot more mobile. 3 War walkers with EML are not bad at all since they give 6 STR4 AP 4 blast markers with pinning. And they come for 150 pts, which is exactly the cost of a night spinner with holo field.

Still AP- means very little. The Fire Prism sacrifices one point for STR for AP4 which imo is way better. Also the Fire Prism is BS4 whereas the Spinner is BS3. The Nightspinner isn't very versatile and it can ONLY take on gaunts and orks.