Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, so I was wondering if the shotguns utilized by some imperial veterans used las power and were just lighter and shorter range or if they are actual shotguns firing multiple slugs with gun powder or some other propellent?

Actual Shotguns.

This is the far future, though, where you gotta kill Tyranids and Eldar and all that, so imagine it as an arm-pulverizing, ball-busting ridiculous death cannon of a shotgun.

There's even special projectiles available for them. Some Arbites units occasionally use seeker rounds.

Laser powered shotguns? That would be an interesting build...

There already are laser powered shot guns. Find you a meltagun.

Naw, Laser shotguns are otherwise known as MULTI-LASERS!!!!

Shotguns are just that, shotguns with slugs or pellets(in-game stat represents slugs)

Grey Templar wrote:Naw, Laser shotguns are otherwise known as MULTI-LASERS!!!!

Shotguns are just that, shotguns with slugs or pellets(in-game stat represents slugs)

I always thought the in game stats represented pellets, considering the low strength and multiple shots that come out of what is usually depicted as a pump action shotgun. Firing slugs would hit harder than they do, would fire slower than an automatic weapon like a lasgun, and fire further. The low strength, multiple shots and short range all indicate pellets being fired.

This discussion brings up memories.

-Loki- wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Naw, Laser shotguns are otherwise known as MULTI-LASERS!!!!

Shotguns are just that, shotguns with slugs or pellets(in-game stat represents slugs)

I always thought the in game stats represented pellets, considering the low strength and multiple shots that come out of what is usually depicted as a pump action shotgun. Firing slugs would hit harder than they do, would fire slower than an automatic weapon like a lasgun, and fire further. The low strength, multiple shots and short range all indicate pellets being fired.

pellets wouldn't hit the same as a bolter. slugs would.


pellets would be better represented by the weapon rolling to hit and then causing D3+1 hits per shot or something.

-Loki- wrote:
I always thought the in game stats represented pellets, considering the low strength and multiple shots that come out of what is usually depicted as a pump action shotgun. Firing slugs would hit harder than they do, would fire slower than an automatic weapon like a lasgun, and fire further. The low strength, multiple shots and short range all indicate pellets being fired.

That depends. A slug definitely wouldn't be at the same strength of a bolter round. And since we can't really depend on 'game ranges' to figure anything out - you'd think a rocket propelled grenade-bullet would go a bit further than 24" - a range of 12 inches for a slug isn't that bad. As someone who uses shotguns (or slug-guns, as we call them) for hunting, I can tell you that a slug has an effective range of about 80-100 yards, while a rifle round can go much, much further than that.

As for the firing speed, I suppose we can assume that the shotguns used in the Guard - like the Remington or Mossberg - is meant for military service, and will have a larger round capacity that your average recreational shotgun. The whole 'Rapid Fire' rule is also meant to show that the Lasgun and Bolter can either be steadied and used for more accurate shots at longer range, or have a faster firing rate for close in combat.

No reason there can't be some sort of short range double barreled las gun with the profile of a shotgun.

I think Guardsmen just use regular semi-auto 12-gauge shotguns. About the SM Scouts, I'm not so sure.

Belexar wrote:I think Guardsmen just use regular semi-auto 12-gauge shotguns. About the SM Scouts, I'm not so sure.

Have you seen the size of those suckers? Even for Warhammer guns they're huge, and pump action.

Defiantly a larger gauge then a 12, probably an eight or a ten. I wouldn't say it's a slug or laser though, just my opinion. Also, even in other sci-fi future movies/games a shotgun is rather lethal. Against an un-armored xeno I think the shotgun would fair better, of course the rules don't state this, this is based off my own opinion.

this is represented by Shotguns haveing Ap -


Shotgun slugs or pellets are relativly low velocity and can't penetrate most forms of body armor except at short range. heck, you can take bird shot at close range wearing nothing and have a decent chance of survival(assuming you get proper medical attention)

Pellets especially as they can't be shaped to penetrate armor like a single projectile could.

Grey Templar wrote:Naw, Laser shotguns are otherwise known as MULTI-LASERS!!!!

Shotguns are just that, shotguns with slugs or pellets(in-game stat represents slugs)

Nah a laser shotgun would be like the Metal Blaster or Protectrons Gaze from Fallout 3.

Also on the subject of gunshot wounds, when my uncle was a young 'un a farmer shot him with a shotgun shell loaded full of rock salt at close range for trespassing. It didnt even break the skin at a range of about 10 meters (30ft) but it put him in hospital for a day due to "shock trauma". I dont know how that pertains to IG shotguns but i thought it was interesting.

I think IG use regular 12g loads (even if they are magnum loads) and the SM use the larger 10g slug loads in their shotguns.

chromedog wrote:I think IG use regular 12g loads (even if they are magnum loads) and the SM use the larger 10g slug loads in their shotguns.

Looking at the 5E rulebook, it just seems that the Space Marines can choose between standard slugs with S3 and manstopper rounds with S4. IG are stuck with the S3 shells and lack the manstoppers.

Here's a blast from the past, by the way - the 2E Wargear book!

"The smooth-bore combat shotgun fires a massive low velocity shot which fragments in flight into several pieces of spinning metal or plastic. Although the weapon has only a short range it is quite dangerous against unarmoured targets. Combat shotguns have magazines of shells and rarely need to be reloaded. They are strongly made, simple weapons ideally suited to brave or not very intelligent troops. A special feature of the shotgun is its ability to fire different kinds of special shot, including solid shells and loose scatter shot. Ordinary shells have a Strength of 4, Scatter shells have a Strength of 3 but a blast area of 1."

Lynata wrote:Looking at the 5E rulebook, it just seems that the Space Marines can choose between standard slugs with S3 and manstopper rounds with S4. IG are stuck with the S3 shells and lack the manstoppers.

It's not a choice, they just get s4 manstopper rounds by default. Those 2nd ed shotgun rules are wacky though! That'd make for some confusing shooting phases.

Grey Templar wrote:

Shotgun slugs or pellets are relativly low velocity and can't penetrate most forms of body armor except at short range. heck, you can take bird shot at close range wearing nothing and have a decent chance of survival(assuming you get proper medical attention)

When the vice president shoots me in the face I will think back on this post to calm my nerves.

lol ^

But there is truth to that, there are reports of people trying to commit suicide with bird shot, it just tore their face from their skull.

They're regular shotguns, the Imperial Navy always uses them in BL books because they can fire them in a ship without worrying about accidentally breaching the hull.

Brother SRM wrote:It's not a choice, they just get s4 manstopper rounds by default.

Hmm, taken a look at the Codex now. This is weird - why does the 5E rulebook give stats for two types of ammunition for Astartes when they only get to use one?

Still, at least it's a good hint regarding just different ammunition types used in the same weapons.

Brother SRM wrote:Those 2nd ed shotgun rules are wacky though! That'd make for some confusing shooting phases.

Because of the blast area? It's a good representation of a shotgun's scatter effect though...

Lynata wrote:Because of the blast area? It's a good representation of a shotgun's scatter effect though...

It would be! A squad of scout Marines would be like two low-rent Thunderfire cannons every phase though.

I was wondering why the 5th ed rulebook gives two stats.

ajax22 wrote:I was wondering why the 5th ed rulebook gives two stats.

Yeah - if that was maybe planned at some stage and then dropped? Or is there anything else in a Space Marine force aside from Scouts that uses shotguns?

At first I thought this could have been a leftover from 4E, but Scouts only had that one S4 ammunition type back then, too.

Nope, only scouts and scout bikers have shotguns. In 4th ed Marine shotguns were strength 3, just checked my old codex to confirm it.

Brother SRM wrote:In 4th ed Marine shotguns were strength 3, just checked my old codex to confirm it.

Goes to show how much I'm out of touch with Marine stats... Thanks for looking it up!

In that case I suppose they came up with the idea for S4 shotguns in addition to S3 ones in the conceptualization phase for the rulebook, and then just dropped the S3 ones and went for a straight buff later on as Ward wrote the actual codex?

Lynata wrote:
In that case I suppose they came up with the idea for S4 shotguns in addition to S3 ones in the conceptualization phase for the rulebook, and then just dropped the S3 ones and went for a straight buff later on as Ward wrote the actual codex?

They became strength 4 with the Dark Angels codex, which was actually near the end of 4th ed. Gav Thorpe wrote that one.