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Perhaps i've missed something or misread Draigo's entry. But would the Titan sword (a master crafted nemesis force sword),
add to Draigo's already increased invulnerable save in CC(due to his storm shield granting him a 3+ invul),
resulting in him having a 2+ invulnerable save in CC?

It doesn't say anywhere that the Titansword is a Nemesis Force Sword.

You're right, i must have over looked that. Odd that he's the only Grey Knight to not have a nemesis force weapon. They even went and bothered to give his the daemonbane special power. They may as well just have made it a nemesis weapon. Of course i'm sure they were attempting to avoid the already mentioned invulnerable save bonus to his Storm Shield. Thanks again.

Without checking, doesn't Crowe also use a non-nemesis weapon?

Jidmah wrote:Without checking, doesn't Crowe also use a non-nemesis weapon?

Yes, Crowe wields the Sword of Antwyr (spelling?) which is a daemon weapon.

Draigo's blade is not a Nemesis Force Weapon because it was re-crafted from a bloodletter's axe.

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:
Draigo's blade is not a Nemesis Force Weapon because it was re-crafted from a bloodletter's axe.

Which, interestingly enough, means that he can only cause instant death on one of his caused wounds each turn, as opposed to the NFWs making all their wounds ID.

It was entirely to avoid giving him a 2++ save in CC....

Yes,that would be OP entirely.A 2+/3++ in shooting and 2+/2++ in combat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was a Nemisis Force sword,but when fighting Mak'r the Reborn the Daemon Smashed it.When he was trapped in the Warp,he defeated a Blood-thirster(not letter) and clensed its axe with santified flame,and smelted it to reforge the sword,which now has the NFW ability to slay Daemons in a touch,and the feudm that a BT's axe would have with Daemons,represented by being Str10 vs Daemons.

Deadshot wrote:Yes,that would be OP entirely.A 2+/3++ in shooting and 2+/2++ in combat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It was a Nemisis Force sword,but when fighting Mak'r the Reborn the Daemon Smashed it.When he was trapped in the Warp,he defeated a Blood-thirster(not letter) and clensed its axe with santified flame,and smelted it to reforge the sword,which now has the NFW ability to slay Daemons in a touch,and the feudm that a BT's axe would have with Daemons,represented by being Str10 vs Daemons.

I meant Bloodthirster, I mearly got distracted by my kittie trying to eat my feet. :3

Iranna.

No probs.

Nice avatar.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Iranna wrote:
Draigo's blade is not a Nemesis Force Weapon because it was re-crafted from a bloodletter's axe.

Which, interestingly enough, means that he can only cause instant death on one of his caused wounds each turn, as opposed to the NFWs making all their wounds ID.

Wrong.

The Titansword is a master-crafted force weapon with the Daemonbane special rule. Nemesis Force Swords are force weapons that have the Daemonbane special rule, plus give +1 to existing invul saves in Close Combat.

Thus, Draigo's Titansword is exactly the same as a Nemesis Force Sword, with the exception that it does not grant him +1 to his invul in CC.

Oh, and it's S10 against Daemons and Psykers.

Wrong again.

For NFW,if the test is passed,then all of the squad's attacks inflict ID.Also,if they have a banner,then they automaticcaly pass the test.Draigo does not have a NFW so he doesn't get this.

[shealyr]Wrong.

The Titansword is a master-crafted force weapon with the Daemonbane special rule. Nemesis Force Swords are force weapons that have the Daemonbane special rule, plus give +1 to existing invul saves in Close Combat.

Deadshot wrote:Wrong again.

For NFW,if the test is passed,then all of the squad's attacks inflict ID.Also,if they have a banner,then they automaticcaly pass the test.Draigo does not have a NFW so he doesn't get this.

That last part is wrong. The banner says anyone in the unit does't have to roll for "force weapon" tests, not just NFW. Thus, neither Draigo nor a psychic inquisitor would have to roll to use their weapon.

There is no "all attacks are instant death" rule for Nemesis Force Weapons. Not sure where people are getting this from. You must successfully activate the Force Weapon for Instant Death to happen.

NFW's are merely Force Weapons with the Daemonbane special rule, that may have additional special rules based on which one you choose.

The Titansword is a Force Weapon with the Daemonbane special rule, with its own special rules (S10 against Daemons/Psykers).

No, Nemesis Force weapons are a SPECIAL type of force weapon. Reread your codex rules, and note that ONLY Nemesis force weapons have the "everything becomes ID" rule. This is an *explicit* change to the normal FW rules.

And guess what? Draigo does NOT have a NFW. He has a Force Weapon, which therefore follows the RULEBOOK and not CODEX rule.

Its that simple.

shealyr wrote:There is no "all attacks are instant death" rule for Nemesis Force Weapons. Not sure where people are getting this from. You must successfully activate the Force Weapon for Instant Death to happen.

NFW's are merely Force Weapons with the Daemonbane special rule, that may have additional special rules based on which one you choose.
.

Nemesis force weapons are special in their own right.

"All wounds caused by the nemesis force weapons in that phase (phase activated) cause instant death." Page 54.

Normal force weapons can only make one wound ID.

Does this include the NFW carried by ICs?Or do they follow normal rules?

Deadshot wrote:Does this include the NFW carried by ICs?Or do they follow normal rules?

If it's a NFW then it follows those rules.

How about the Titansword?

Deadshot wrote:How about the Titansword?

Titan sword if not a Nemesis Force Weapon.

Deadshot wrote:How about the Titansword?

The one we are talking about, and have already said ISNT a NFW but simply a normal FW?

Missed that bit.

To save us all anymore heartache... C'mon guys we're are giving the impression that GK players dont even know their own codex...
verbatim from the GK codex sitting front of my face:

The Titansword:
The Titansword is a master-crafted force weapon with the Daemonbane rule (see page 54). Additionally, any close combat attacks that Draigo directs against a unit that contains one or more Daemons or Psykers are resolved at strength 10.

on page 54 under Nemesis Force Weapon entry:
Any Daemon or psyker that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from nemesis force weapons must take a leadership test at the end of the assault phase. If the test is passed, nothing happens. If the test is failed, the model is removed as a casualty. This ability applies regardless of whether or not the Nemesis Force Weapons have been succesfully activated.

Since it does not say that the Titansword is a NEMESIS force SWORD then the 1+ to invuln saves are non-existent. However, because the Daemonbane rule is in effect, you cannot instant kill a unit of 5 nobs due to the fact there are no psykers or daemons in the unit, as none of the other NEMESIS rules apply.

Now to return to Titan to prepare to grave space in the tombs for the fight about to ensue lol

Can I point out this is a distinction without a difference?

1) Draigo is going to more-or-less murder anything he happens to be in combat with, with very few exceptions.

2) A great deal of the time, he will be str 10, thus causing ID on almost anything that's not a MC.

3) Can certianly ID any MCs with his Force-weapon just fine.

4) If he doesn't, the Paladin's certainly can.

5) Very often, it will be pretty easy to get him up to Str 8, which will again ID things

6) all of this is just a stupid mistake of wording with the force weapon rules, anyway, don't think for a second GW wrote the two rules differently on purpose.

7) I guarantee you in 6th edition the language will follow the GK codex language.

There you go, 7 reasons why you are essentially arguing about nothing. The odds that your game will hinge upon wheather Draigo can ID one, or multiple models based upon his force weapon power are virtually nil.

THe ONE important take-away here is that Draigo does not get a 2++ save in close combat, that was on purpose by GW, because the man is broken enough already.

Broke says who? If you wandered a Warp wasteland for several lifetimes with nothing but a sword, shield, and your own wit you'd be a badass too...

Furthermore... when could he ever reach strength 8?
Hammerhand is only cummulative with might of titan which would raise his strength without assaulting a psyker or daemon to +2... he has a base strength of 5... that would equal 7...

the real question is can he get his strength 10 hits on a daemon-possesed vehicle?

The Paladins Hammerhand raises his Str+1 as well, so if there was Draigo and Paladins casting HH, then they would be Str 6 and 7, andf MOT +1=8. If the libby was in the unit, he could also HH to give himself and the Paladins Str 8, and Draigo str 9. Maybe there is also a Techy lying about with a free psychic level. He uses joins in and uses it, bring Draigo Str 10, and the rest str 9.


He can get his Str 10 hits on possessed vehicles, check the FAQ. Possessed vehciles are daemons.

That's specifically untrue. The most recent main rule book FAQ declared psychic powers stack with themselves. The only power this can really apply to is in fact hammerhand. Everyone, even GK players, thought it odd.

The answer to the second is "yes". GK faq specifically lists possessed vehicles as daemons.

WarlordRob117 wrote:Broke says who? If you wandered a Warp wasteland for several lifetimes with nothing but a sword, shield, and your own wit you'd be a badass too...

Furthermore... when could he ever reach strength 8?
Hammerhand is only cummulative with might of titan which would raise his strength without assaulting a psyker or daemon to +2... he has a base strength of 5... that would equal 7...

the real question is can he get his strength 10 hits on a daemon-possesed vehicle?

He can cast Hammerhand, that brings him to Str 6

The squad he is with can cast Hammerhand, that brings him to Str 7

Add a Librarian to the unit that casts Hammerhand, he is Str 8

And why not MoT as well, why is there no MoT!!!!


Why is there no MoT?

A question millions of drivers ask themselves.

Where are the :bleeps: that are doing my MoT?! I want back on the road so I can drive my car face-first into a wall again, while drunk and stoned!!!