DE Titan

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**Akroma06**

So yes I am trying to get a datasheet for a DE Titan that I have thus named Shadowsoul Titan...the name can be changed later.

First off do not scream at me and say "DE can't have titans *rawr* they use speed only *more rawr*. I know this is for my kabal and is fluff based so leave that garbage at home.

That said it is based off of an Eldar Revenant Titan and comes base as such.

Shadowsoul Titan 800pts

WS4 BS4 S10 A2 I2
AV Front 12
AV Side 12
AV Rear 10

Special Rules
Improved Flickerfield... The Shadowsoul Titan has a 4+ invulnerable save if it moved during its owners movement phase (it counts as having moved on the first turn).
Those poor souls*
Agile**

*Those poor souls: Many of the Shadowsoul Titans many victims have litterally had their souls trapped inside the titans legs and images of their terrified faces can be seen on the battlefield. Enemy units find this extremly disturbing while the DE find it incredibily invigorating. All DE units within 6" may reroll failed leadership checks and broken DE units that begin the movement phase within 6" may attempt to regroup regardless of restrictions. All enemy units within 6" suffer minus 2 to their leadership characteristics.

**Agile: This is identical to the agile rule on the revenant titan.

Weapons:
2 Shadow Pulsars: S: Destroyer AP:2 5" blast heavy 2.

Options: The Shadowsoul Titan may replace one of its Shadow Pulsars for the shadowsword. The Shadowsword. 200 pts
Shadowsword: In addition to all rules for Titan Close Combat weapons enemy superheavies may not recieve their 4+ save for protection against a weapon destroyed result against a primary weapon. Likewise any superheavy that is required to roll on the catstrophic damage table as a result of the shadowsword adds 1 to the result and cannot be lower than a 4.

So too powerful? Too weak? Points costs correct? C&C is welcome and accepted, just again please don't rage at me about DE not being able to have titans.

**Just Dave**

Akroma06 wrote:First off do not scream at me and say "DE can't have titans *rawr* they use speed only *more rawr*. I know this is for my kabal and is fluff based so leave that garbage at home.

Wow. What a nice way to start the thread.

I would recommend that you change the name, the Shadowsword is an existing Imperial Superheavy.

**Akroma06**

Just Dave wrote:
Akroma06 wrote:First off do not scream at me and say "DE can't have titans *rawr* they use speed only *more rawr*. I know this is for my kabal and is fluff based so leave that garbage at home.

Wow. What a nice way to start the thread.

I would recommend that you change the name, the Shadowsword is an existing Imperial Superheavy.

Yeah I know but the ttle tends to make people rage at me (local forums). And oops that was the original name its now Shadowsoul Titan...I'll edit my orignal. Thanks.

**Just Dave**

Oh, I wouldn't blame you for wanting to prevent it, but I'd recommend putting it as a n.b. type note afterwards, rather than the very opening.
Shadowsoul sounds much better, although maybe a bit clichéd, but such is 40K!

**Akroma06**

Name fixed thanks for the heads up...yeah the name is chliche, but I am definetly open to changing it.

**kanebbcksc**

I like the idea of all races using some form of Superheavy at some point in their war-torn history. Sure, it doesn't fit the generic fluff that GW developed for all armies, but there has to have been occasions when generals from some of the races (namely Dark Eldar and Tau) looked upon the mass and might of Titans and said "I want one of those!".

**Paul**

Just from a fluff point of view, i imagin the de having something much naster than some titan.

**Mr. Self Destruct**

kanebbcksc wrote:I like the idea of all races using some form of Superheavy at some point in their war-torn history. Sure, it doesn't fit the generic fluff that GW developed for all armies, but there has to have been occasions when generals from some of the races (namely Dark Eldar and Tau) looked upon the mass and might of Titans and said "I want one of those!".

I'd support this idea if you can have an Archon ride on top of it with a saddle.

**Akroma06**

kanebbcksc wrote:I like the idea of all races using some form of Superheavy at some point in their war-torn history. Sure, it doesn't fit the generic fluff that GW developed for all armies, but there has to have been occasions when generals from some of the races (namely Dark Eldar and Tau) looked upon the mass and might of Titans and said "I want one of those!".

Yeah...well the fluff for my Kabal involves them being banned from Commoragh and having settled on a planet inside a gaseous annomally and sometimes that extra umph is needed so why not steal something from the "good kids" the eldar and make it our own.

Paul wrote:Just from a fluff point of view, i imagin the de having something much naster than some titan.

Ideas? I wanted to make him nasty but be fair and cost right at the same time.

**Ovion**

I've had a few Titan/Superheavy designs, but they've pretty much solely been from the Haemonculus's crazed domain, thus they happily fit into the fluff. (My whole army is pretty much - Haemonculi did it.)

For Example:

Spoiler:

All are currently still WIP though...

but a big ol' spikey regular titan is blaggable too I guess... xD

**Jackmojo**

Looks basically fine to me, the only thing I dislike is the rules for the sword, they seem slightly over complex, why not just give it an extra +1 to the vehicle/superheavy damage chart or something simpler?

Jack

**Akroma06**

Jackmojo wrote:Looks basically fine to me, the only thing I dislike is the rules for the sword, they seem slightly over complex, why not just give it an extra +1 to the vehicle/superheavy damage chart or something simpler?

Jack

Titan CCW are strength D so they already add 1 to the table and a Titan CCW adds 3 attacks as per the apoc rule book. Originaly (before I knew the rules on titans well) I had it gain D3 attacks (obviously dropped) and it prevented damage to super heavys from repairing or other things from regenerating wounds. I felt that was too complicated as there would be little pices of paper following units that I hadn't finnished off yet.

If you've got ideas I'm more than open to hear them. I'm just trying to give it something extra than just a Titan CCW.

**Deadshot**

How about it counts as a WWP or something?I am just throwing things out at the moment.

For the Sword,how does the name Painblade sound?

**Akroma06**

I really like that name. Painblade it is. I'll keep the WWP as an idea but I'm not 100% on it.

**Jackmojo**

Akroma06 wrote:
Titan CCW are strength D so they already add 1 to the table and a Titan CCW adds 3 attacks as per the apoc rule book. Originaly (before I knew the rules on titans well) I had it gain D3 attacks (obviously dropped) and it prevented damage to super heavys from repairing or other things from regenerating wounds. I felt that was too complicated as there would be little pices of paper following units that I hadn't finnished off yet.

If you've got ideas I'm more than open to hear them. I'm just trying to give it something extra than just a Titan CCW.

Yah, I was suggesting an extra +1 (i.e. +2 net), its simpler and gives the same fluff affect of 'better Titan melee weapon'.

Jack

**Akroma06**

Ah...thats really powerful. I'm not sure if 200 pts would be enough for that. That actually would work. The sword is based on an old Japaneese model that is two blades very close together yet far enough apart to cause to seperate wounds. Since there was nothing to stitch the wounds together with the wound would remain open and the victim would either bleed out or it would get infected.
I was going for a simmilar idea but used against bigger opponents. I can see how the +2 to the table would use that though.

**Deadshot**

Maybe have the sword as a unique upgrade.ie,only one per army.The way you said "the" is making me think it is a one of a kind weapon.

**Jackmojo**

Hmm, I guess it depends how big your apocalypse tables normally are...I'm singularly unimpressed with Str D melee vs Str D Guns myself, and this is costing you two 5 inch templates worth of Destroyer fire a turn, so I figure if you get to melee you deserve to mess gak up.

Jack

**Akroma06**

The titan itself can only have one. I don't want to open it up that he can drop both pulsars for swords and go crazy on say a gargant. Still knida leaning towards the extra +1 on the catastrophic table, but it just doesn't seem to have that fluff background of if I leave you alone after being slashed you suffer more. Just an "it will be a gruesome death for you."
Also I think I'm going to drop the "can't be lower than a 4" part as that seems to over the top.

**cricketofdeth**

I think the 4++ with an uber CC weapon is too much, especially with a base cost of 800 points. I know everyone who make thier own datasheet wants it full of win, but with a 4++, you don't fear D weapons or CC with TH/SS termis, tyranid/ork super heavys, or even close range melta shots.
Maybe if the DE titan only had 2 structure points, or didn;t get the 4++ under 12" it would be more balanced.
DE are ment to be fast, and strike hard, but also be fragile.

**Akroma06**

cricketofdeth wrote:I think the 4++ with an uber CC weapon is too much, especially with a base cost of 800 points. I know everyone who make thier own datasheet wants it full of win, but with a 4++, you don't fear D weapons or CC with TH/SS termis, tyranid/ork super heavys, or even close range melta shots.
Maybe if the DE titan only had 2 structure points, or didn;t get the 4++ under 12" it would be more balanced.
DE are ment to be fast, and strike hard, but also be fragile.

You do realize this is the exact same as a current FW model, the Eldar Revenant Titan, right? You then pay 200 more points to replace a weapon that drops 2 strength D templates (my shadow pulsars are the same as eldar pulsars...exact same stats) for a Titan CCW. This one would not fear any of those things any more than the revenant. A Titan CCW can't be used against anything you mentioned except the nid ork stuff, everything else gets resolved at S 10 with no armor just like the revenant would do. Against super ork/nid stuff why get in CC? Shoot it. A gargant would rip me apart as would a herodian (spelling the big flying thing nids have). I don't fear D? I have a coinflip of potentially getting wiped with one shot...same as the revenant.
The base cost is that of a revenant. Only human/ork things don't get shields under 12" and why lose a structure point when I pay the same price?

**Deadshot**

Akroma06 wrote: A Titan CCW can't be used against anything you mentioned except the nid ork stuff, everything else gets resolved at S 10 with no armor just like the revenant would do..

Why is this.First off, TCCWs can be used against anything.The confusion surrounding this most likely comes from the Towering Monstrosity rule found on Reavers and Warlords,which specifically prevents them from CCWing a space marine rhino.Unless stated in the special rules,which you haven't,TCCWs can be used just as normal.

Secondly,why only Ork and Nid stuff?

What is this about the S10,no armour like the Revenant?

**Jackmojo**

All warmachine walkers/gargantuan creatures are like monstrous creatures (2d6 armour pen, no armour saves), that's another one of the reasons I'm not super impressed with the upgrade to Destroyer from Titan close combat weapons (the +3 attacks is pretty good though).

Jack

**Akroma06**

I could have sworn that Titan CCW were resolved at strength D. So what should I give the sword if not that then?

**Jackmojo**

They are, I was just noting that almost no armour stops a titan anyway, so the TTCW bonus is mostly the +3 attacks (and +1 to the damage table).

If the goal is to make a better TTCW then either more attacks (+d3 on the charge maybe?) or increasing the damage bonus seem the obvious answer. If you want an option that increases its utility against non vehicles perhaps force re-rolls on successful invulnerable saves?

Jack

**Akroma06**

Jackmojo wrote:They are, I was just noting that almost no armour stops a titan anyway, so the TTCW bonus is mostly the +3 attacks (and +1 to the damage table).

If the goal is to make a better TTCW then either more attacks (+d3 on the charge maybe?) or increasing the damage bonus seem the obvious answer. If you want an option that increases its utility against non vehicles perhaps force re-rolls on successful invulnerable saves?

Jack

Agreed. An additional d3 attacks seems like it could become very gross. 6-8 attacks at S D? Thats why I was going for more damage and not to OP thats why I went for the ignore the 4+ to protect a primary. The only units I know of that size that would have an Invul save would be another eldar titan.

**Deadshot**

Automatic ID wounds/auto penetration +1,is far different to 2D6 ordnance hits.The destroyer rule is always worth it.Feel like killing every Tyranid unit* under the Template?A good shot from a Shadowsword left me a Doom,a Tyrant and 4 Warriors down,in 1 volley of the Volcano Cannon.The next turn saw my warriors get ambushed by an outflanking Warhound(Damn the Grand Strategy!),taking out 2 seperate squads with its twin Turbo Lasers.

Edit:*Any non Gargantuan Tyranid unit.

**Akroma06**

ID on gargantuan creatures huh? Now that is a good one. It seems like the sword may need to cost more, but with a low initative and WS I may go down before hand. I may need it to make a successful weapon skill test on an unsaved wound in order to ID the thing too.

**Deadshot**

Sorry no,GCs are immune to ID,in all shapes and forms.Including Vortex Missiles,which instead inflict D6 wounds
Let me fix that.

Edit:Stupid Caps lock.

**Akroma06**

Yes but if you have a special rule that says they are removed then they are gone. Annoying little abuse that I found for a shattershard once.
Don't like that much power then if it says that they normally should not die. Back to the drawing board...