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Are you allowed to do so? I was under the impression that you could due to a rule on pg3. But I'm now without a rulebook and I have people questioning whether what I did was legal. Any help? Specifically I pre-measured loota range since I went 2nd.

The rule for measuring says you are ONLY allowed to measure when explicitly requierd to.

FOr deployment you are usually only allowed to measure from the table, not from any models.

So what you did was illegal.

Lukus, There will be instances, such as infiltrating where you may not be inside of 12" or 18" of an enemy's model.
So place your model and measure to make sure you are out of range afterwards.

I was under the impression that you can measure anything during deployment since it wasn't very specific on page 3 what you can and can't measure to.

Are there any specific rules that say you can't? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but having a ruling on paper would help.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Permissive ruleset, you can't do anything unless given explicit permission to do so. In this case you're given no permission to measure at deployment so you can't.

You are given permission to measure during deployment. The problem is it's not very specific (it just says you may measure distances).

Lukus83 wrote:You are given permission to measure during deployment. The problem is it's not very specific (it just says you may measure distances).

Basically when deploying the only thing that you can check is that you are within your deployment area and, where applicable, that you are far enough away from the enemy.

Lukus83 wrote:You are given permission to measure during deployment. The problem is it's not very specific (it just says you may measure distances).

No, it IS specific: it says you must deploy models more than X" from the centre point, or X" from the centre line. ONLY in DoW when going second does standard deployment give you permission to measure to other models, as you must deploy more than 18" away from them.

So you cheated unless it was DoW and you were going second; and even then you only have permission to measure an 18" bubble, nothing more.

You should stop throwing the word 'cheated' around so liberally, it implies an intent that wasn't there.

But how are people coming to this conclusion? It simply says you may measure distances.

I'm willing to concede the point if I'm wrong, but I would like some rules to back it up. Measuring to another model on the table is as arbitrary as measuring for servo-skulls distance from your enemy deployment zone...I think???






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And thank you Fearspect...I'm not intending to cheat. The reason I'm asking Dakka is to find out if what I did was wrong and to let my opponent know. It was a tournament game so I need to find out for the sake of giving my opponent a shot at a re-match (tournaments last a long time in Shanghai, lol).

The page you're citing (pg. 3) already tells you - you measure 'when the rules call for it.' The list is just a list of examples of when you might be called to measure - deployment being mentioned doesn't mean you can pre-measure any more than area of effect being mentioned means you can measure to anything on the board every time you cast Null Zone.

Fearspect wrote:You should stop throwing the word 'cheated' around so liberally, it implies an intent that wasn't there.

You don't have to have intent to cheat, sometimes it happens purely on accident. Whether it's from bein a TFG WAAC, or lackluster on a few rules, or a noob etc.

Unfortunate cheating is cheating, and

Pg3 BGB states "Players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it"

Please note the only measuring I find for deployment are those to break the table into it's respective zones, Pitched Battle, Spearhead, and DoW only has the table half + enemy units must deploy more than 18" away hence the 18" bubble

Thanks for the input. I now have a sneaky suspicion I was perhaps reading too much into the rule. I did put it to the TO before the game began and he cleared it. Will have to let him and my opponent know and let them decide what to do next.

As above; the rules tell you you can only measure when explicitly told to. The only time you are told to measure to models is in DoW when going second, so if you are measuring to mdoels outside of this you are not following the rules.

Umm, infiltrators?

Was going to have a go at jdj with the cheating rant, but the "lackluster on a few rules" part is actually pretty fair.

Everyone is (has been).

Dude, don't worry about a rematch. That isn't a biggie.

...who are a special deployment. You forgot Scouts as well, who must remain 12" away from models. Or interactions with Servoskulls, which have a defined distance.

I was giving general deployment requirements, which do not allow you to premeasure to models. Certainly the subject (lootas) never have an ability to measure to other models during deployment.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Fearspect wrote:You should stop throwing the word 'cheated' around so liberally, it implies an intent that wasn't there.

You don't have to have intent to cheat, sometimes it happens purely on accident. Whether it's from bein a TFG WAAC, or lackluster on a few rules, or a noob etc.

Unfortunate cheating is cheating

Breaking a rule does not always mean cheating. The actual definition of the word 'cheat' would seem to back up the need for knowingly breaking the rules (especially for gain).

Now to the OP I had a similarly broad view of measuring for deployment but unfortunately yes you are only given permission to measure a few things during deployment as described on pages 92-93 (e.g. Distance from the middle of the table, distance from enemy models).

Luke...wow, another rule yet broken...

e.g. Pre-measuring; Vehicle in a different combat causing wounds and you counting it in combat resolution, etc.

I see a trend...I should definitely be prepared before our game

mray01 wrote:Luke...wow, another rule yet broken...

e.g. Pre-measuring; Vehicle in a different combat causing wounds and you counting it in combat resolution, etc.

I see a trend...I should definitely be prepared before our game

I thought that unsaved wounds from vehicle explosions DO count as casualties for combat resolution. There's a line about it in the BRB FAQ, right?

Yep, wounds from a vehicle exploding does cause combat res

That's what we thought. I was pretty certain at least. When we pulled out the FAQ it turns it they phrased it as applying to multiple combats. I was applying it to a different combat.


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mray01 wrote:Luke...wow, another rule yet broken...

e.g. Pre-measuring; Vehicle in a different combat causing wounds and you counting it in combat resolution, etc.

I see a trend...I should definitely be prepared before our game

Just be ready for my 2+ invulnerable saves on all my vehicles. If you can get past that I'm screwed.

Unless you put your lootas in the corner, or the board is bigger than 6x4, they'll have range to target

They were indeed in a corner. Again, my bad and it's a mistake I know won't come up again.

But the combat res thing...any chance of a verdict?

And I'm feeling a little defensive thanks to Mrays comment. I guess I wasn't having a good day with the rules. BUT, I also wasn't the only one. I distinctly remember my opponent forgetting that his Warboss was in Mega armour yet didn't make any difficult terrain rolls while he was out of his vehicle. I doubt he was cheating. Just some bad playing on both our parts.

I'm just gonna make it a day to learn from (seems like I need it too).

You can measure what the area you have to deploy in just fine, however you can't measure the distances between your models and the enemies.

As for the combat res thing, the wounds were caused during the assault phase, meaning they affect the combat res for that unit. If the explosion occurred in the shooting phase then it wouldn't.

Lukas don't worry about cheating, so long as your not trying to ignore rules or doing things wrong purposeful no one should fault you for it. Learning the rules takes time and more importantly, practice. I've been playing for well over 2 years, and about 3 weeks ago I forgot charging gave you +1 attack, so stuff happens hahahaa.

juraigamer wrote:You can measure what the area you have to deploy in just fine, however you can't measure the distances between your models and the enemies.

Except, of course, Dawn of War and Pitched battle tell you to deploy a minimum distance from enemies models so you are required to measure the distance between each unit you place and all enemy units to ensure that you are not too close.

Common sense says that we measure only when there is a possibility of the unit being within that distance but the rules offer no such provision.

I'm just trying to give Mray a hard time. I actually know the guy, lol.

And he was just giving you sh*t.

In accounting the difference between fraud and error is intent.

Not always. Mea culpa is not always required to determine criminality.

An aggregious error so obvious that a reasonable person would see it as such can be considered fraud.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Not always. Mea culpa is not always required to determine criminality.

An aggregious error so obvious that a reasonable person would see it as such can be considered fraud.

Then why isn't Timothy Geithner locked up for tax fraud? :-P


edit- for our non-american friends who have no idea who that is, he is the current Secretary of the Treasury who didn't pay taxes in the past because he "didn't understand how the tax software worked".

tetrisphreak wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Not always. Mea culpa is not always required to determine criminality.

An aggregious error so obvious that a reasonable person would see it as such can be considered fraud.

Then why isn't Timothy Geithner locked up for tax fraud? :-P


edit- for our non-american friends who have no idea who that is, he is the current Secretary of the Treasury who didn't pay taxes in the past because he "didn't understand how the tax software worked".

Various reasons we are not allowed to talk about here on Dakka.

The Largest, however, is that the timothy Geithner situation is actually a different situation than what Nos was talking about.

Clear Criminal intention: Specific "Book Cooking" to inflate the Value of your Company(generally in order to increase personal revenue through public or private sale)

Egregious accounting error that results in assumed Criminal action: Filing tax documentation wherein the paperwork states you are to receive a refund in excess of $499 over what you should have received, wherein the math has an obvious inflated error(the math error is more than an over-carried "1", something such as a Tax Owed line reading $3,188, a tax paid line reading $4,128, and a refund due line reading $2,185; there is no way that that math lines up: 4128 - 3188 =/= 2185 no matter what math you are using)