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So, I've been thinking randomly about getting a baneblade sometime for my GK army but it seems a bit silly if it would be manned by lowly guards surrounded by the awesomeness of the GK.

So what do you feel would be a fair price to pay for getting that baneblade a GK crew and giving it the same rules that the other GK vehicles have, Psychic Pilot and Fortitude, as well as the increase in BS from 3 to 4?

The special rules are worth 5pts in i rhino but then there's no increase in BS.

Ideas?

Comparing it to the stock Baneblade and the Fortress of Arrogance (which gets BS 4 and some special rules), I'd probably split the difference and go for +200 as a starting point and playtest from there (always better to start a shade too high and work down).

EDIT: checked the VDR and just a BS 4 Baneblade comes in at exactly what I said so now I feel extra good about my math

Jack

I'm not familiar with GK rules but I'm pretty sure that would kill everything on the table.

Hmm.. the upgrade would be worth more than 5 points. Remember, this is 5 points more on a rhino, a BaneBlade with fortitude and all these special rules with be much, much scarier then a rhino!
And for lore sake, I would not put my grey knights in a Baneblade, they like to fight with their feet firmly planted on the ground!

Thanks for the input.

And as far as lore goes, this isn't for transport. This is for moar dakka. They already have Land Raiders and Storm Ravens that are piloted by GK:s. A Baneblade would fit right into that, I think.

Any ideas on the Psy-ammo upgrades? I forgot those in the OP.

Thanks.

Jackmojo wrote:Comparing it to the stock Baneblade and the Fortress of Arrogance (which gets BS 4 and some special rules), I'd probably split the difference and go for +200 as a starting point and playtest from there (always better to start a shade too high and work down).

EDIT: checked the VDR and just a BS 4 Baneblade comes in at exactly what I said so now I feel extra good about my math

Jack

The Fortress of Arrogance also includes Yarrick in it's cost...

a GK Baneblade?! Eeep!

When/if you make it, post pics!

Look at the Deamon hunters inducted guard rules, just use it as an inducted stock baneblade if you really want one. Putting GKs in a Baneblade just seems silly to me. If you want one that badly, I'd say 200 more points is about right.

The point is to get a reason to paint a Baneblade as a GK tank and since everything else in my army is strictly knights it somehow feels good to have all tanks following the same rules.

Just out of curiosity, why would it be silly for the GK to pilot a Baneblade? They are, in my opinion, in part about being overpowered and slightly over the top.

And I feel they are one of the few that can field multiple Land Raiders without it feeling overly weird.

I think it would fit right in with how the current codex is fashioned. They are portrayed as having all of the best that the Imperium has to offer, why not a Baneblade that has undergone special treatment by the Mechanicus to better withstand the daemonic horde and received specialised crew?

Anyhow, that's how I see it and I'd love to hear other viewpoints.

As far as I know, the last Space Marine baneblade was destroyed sometime during the Horus Heresy.

Modern baneblades are only fielded by His Holy Majesty's Imperial Guard, to ensure that they have an adequate amount of meatshields.

Unit1126PLL wrote:As far as I know, the last Space Marine baneblade was destroyed sometime during the Horus Heresy.

Modern baneblades are only fielded by His Holy Majesty's Imperial Guard, to ensure that they have an adequate amount of meatshields.

And because they're to cumbersome to be effectively used by the Astartes. They just don't have a place in the blitzkrieg the Astartes are intended for.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:As far as I know, the last Space Marine baneblade was destroyed sometime during the Horus Heresy.

Modern baneblades are only fielded by His Holy Majesty's Imperial Guard, to ensure that they have an adequate amount of meatshields.

And because they're to cumbersome to be effectively used by the Astartes. They just don't have a place in the blitzkrieg the Astartes are intended for.

*shudder* you're right; I didn't even think of that.

"ALL RIGHT! Baneblade deployed, where's this daemonic infestation?"

"Uh, Brother Maccabeus.... they were gone three months ago.... when you were trying to figure out how to cross that bridge?"

berglin wrote:So, I've been thinking randomly about getting a baneblade sometime for my GK army but it seems a bit silly if it would be manned by lowly guards surrounded by the awesomeness of the GK.

So what do you feel would be a fair price to pay for getting that baneblade a GK crew and giving it the same rules that the other GK vehicles have, Psychic Pilot and Fortitude, as well as the increase in BS from 3 to 4?

The special rules are worth 5pts in i rhino but then there's no increase in BS.

Ideas?

Grey Knights really wouldn't have a Baneblade, they have Thunderhawks to do the same thing. Hell, it's unlikely they'd fit inside even without armor. Just run it as normal with a few squads of guardsmen/henchmen and call it an attached unit. Trying to appropriate a Baneblade would be like IG with Stormravens, Thunderhaks or Drop Pods. The GK's likely don't even have any method of deploying them (they'd need specialized drop vehicles), and they're way slower than everything else in their arsenal, not to mention they have no special anti-daemon stuff.

The special rules you speak of aren't exactly well costed in the GK codex, on a Baneblade you'd better be prepared to tack on 200pts for Fortitude, BS4, etc.

If the OP wants a baneblade for his army, who are we to deny him his fun? I say go for it.

Pricewise, there is a marine equivalent of the baneblade called the Fellblade. Basically it is a Baneblade with BS4 and what essentially is Power of the Machine Spirit for 600pts, so I'd probably price it about the same, though I think it should be more (Fortitude is much better than PotMS). If you want to add psybolt ammo, considering the fact that it could have up to 5 tl-heavy bolters, I'd say +50pts. Why so high? For stormravens and LRC's, it already cost them 20pts just to upgrade the hurricane bolters and they're not even super-heavies. So +5pts for each HB that it could potentially have, and then double the cost for being a super-heavy.

So for a Greyblade with psybolt ammo, I'd say 150pts. You have to pay a premium for the good stuff, and it's still cheaper than what others here are estimating.

jy2 wrote:If the OP wants a baneblade for his army, who are we to deny him his fun? I say go for it.

Realistically? No one, but lets be honest, this is "I want a cheap plastic superheavy and I'm going to hamfist it in any way I can with a bunch of cool rules to boot".

Pricewise, there is a marine equivalent of the baneblade called the Fellblade. Basically it is a Baneblade with BS4 and what essentially is Power of the Machine Spirit for 600pts, so I'd probably price it about the same, though I think it should be more (Fortitude is much better than PotMS).

Which is pretty much entirely based off one Heresy era (when Imperial Army units still wore Legion colors) picture from a third party CCG , with all the fluff created and datasheet written entirely by the old Fly Lords of Terra fan blog several years later as an excuse to field SM superheavies when the plastic kit came out.

Vaktathi wrote:

jy2 wrote:If the OP wants a baneblade for his army, who are we to deny him his fun? I say go for it.

Realistically? No one, but lets be honest, this is "I want a cheap plastic superheavy and I'm going to hamfist it in any way I can with a bunch of cool rules to boot".

Pricewise, there is a marine equivalent of the baneblade called the Fellblade. Basically it is a Baneblade with BS4 and what essentially is Power of the Machine Spirit for 600pts, so I'd probably price it about the same, though I think it should be more (Fortitude is much better than PotMS).

Which is pretty much entirely based off one Heresy era (when Imperial Army units still wore Legion colors) picture from a third party CCG , with all the fluff created and datasheet written entirely by the old Fly Lords of Terra fan blog several years later as an excuse to field SM superheavies when the plastic kit came out.

So what if it's not fluffy. If he takes the time to buy, convert and paint a baneblade to be a part of his GK army and if his opponent is alright with it, so what? Who are you to say no (unless you're his opponent)? If you want to tell him no just because it's not fluffy, than that says more about you than it does about him. Heck, you can always make up fluff to justify almost anything.

GK Baneblade is fine. A Blood Angels Baneblade on the other hand . . .

"Wait, what's that up in the sky?!?!?!"

Blood angels baneblade you say?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326420.page

jy2 wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

jy2 wrote:If the OP wants a baneblade for his army, who are we to deny him his fun? I say go for it.

Realistically? No one, but lets be honest, this is "I want a cheap plastic superheavy and I'm going to hamfist it in any way I can with a bunch of cool rules to boot".

Pricewise, there is a marine equivalent of the baneblade called the Fellblade. Basically it is a Baneblade with BS4 and what essentially is Power of the Machine Spirit for 600pts, so I'd probably price it about the same, though I think it should be more (Fortitude is much better than PotMS).

Which is pretty much entirely based off one Heresy era (when Imperial Army units still wore Legion colors) picture from a third party CCG , with all the fluff created and datasheet written entirely by the old Fly Lords of Terra fan blog several years later as an excuse to field SM superheavies when the plastic kit came out.

So what if it's not fluffy. If he takes the time to buy, convert and paint a baneblade to be a part of his GK army and if his opponent is alright with it, so what? Who are you to say no (unless you're his opponent)? If you want to tell him no just because it's not fluffy, than that says more about you than it does about him. Heck, you can always make up fluff to justify almost anything.

I'm not saying I'd say no, and it's not something I'd have control of either way unless I'm actually facing him in which case i'd likely just sort of chuckle to myself and get on with the game.

That said, I'm still going call it out on what it is (hamfisting a unit into an army it doesn't belong in) when they specifically throw it out for comments.

Vaktathi wrote:

jy2 wrote:If the OP wants a baneblade for his army, who are we to deny him his fun? I say go for it.

Realistically? No one, but lets be honest, this is "I want a cheap plastic superheavy and I'm going to hamfist it in any way I can with a bunch of cool rules to boot".

Well, you see, this statement right here I really have a problem with. If all I wanted was a 'cheap plastic superheavy' I could've just used it along with my other 4500pts of guards. And since this is all apocalypse anyway there'd be no problem with that. If you'd just let it be with 'don't like, won't play' then fine. But this?

I thought that if I was gonna get (another, for all that you know) Baneblade it could be fun to paint it in GK colors and from there I thought it'd be nice if it actually had the rules that 'comes with the colors'. So you see, no malicious intent of trying to 'hamfist' something in. I honestly hadn't thought if it from the angle you're presenting here.

But hey, don't let something like facts or research get in the way of your preconceptions, misconceived conclusions and dogma.

I'd just like to thank everyone who replied. I'll let you know how/if it turns out. Mayhap this would be the final stance of Titan and they had all these Super Tanks hidden away somewhere for a last stand. Why would you let something like transportation difficulties get in the way of pounding your enemy. No need to transport and or deploy them anywhere. Just fire away.

See. A fluffy reason use them! Who's to say that Titan isn't bristling with Baneblades?

Thanks everyone.

berglin wrote:

I thought that if I was gonna get (another, for all that you know) Baneblade it could be fun to paint it in GK colors and from there I thought it'd be nice if it actually had the rules that 'comes with the colors'.

Which, as I pointed out above, is hamfisting into an army it doesn't belong in, just as a Drop Pod, Stormraven or Thunderhawk would be silly in an IG army. One must wonder why people always seems to try and fit the Baneblade into SM armies but not the drop pods and thunderhawks and stormravens into the IG armies.

So you see, no malicious intent of trying to 'hamfist' something in. I honestly hadn't thought if it from the angle you're presenting here.

I never said there was anything malicious, that's ascribing an entirely differnet intent to it that none of my posts brought up. However, it is difficult to believe that if Baneblades were $500 and Thunderhawks were $100, or even if both were the same price, that this discussion would be occurring. One certainly never saw these topics before September 2007 when BB's were $400 and required twice as much work to assemble.

I agree with Vakhathi. The Grey Knights would be perfectly happy to fight alongside a Guard baneblade. As to manning one themselves and claiming it for the Chapter...

.... not so much.

As for the last stand fluff reason:

Sounds great, if the apoc we're playing is the last stand on Titan.

Perhaps people try and put baneblades into SM armies and not thunderhawks into ig list because SM do not have anything like the abundance of superheavies that guard do. If it's modelled well, and the effort is there, I would say go for it. Besides, why does cost have anything to with it? Would you object more or less if he bought a phantom Titan and stuck an Aquila on it?

Reanimator wrote:Perhaps people try and put baneblades into SM armies and not thunderhawks into ig list because SM do not have anything like the abundance of superheavies that guard do. If it's modelled well, and the effort is there, I would say go for it. Besides, why does cost have anything to with it? Would you object more or less if he bought a phantom Titan and stuck an Aquila on it?

SM don't have the abundance of superheavies that Guard do because large-scale army on army warfare isn't the Marine's business and is where the guard thrives.

Cost doesn't have anything to do with it, fluff does.

I would be equally vehement in opposition to using a Phantom with an aquila; it is equally unfluffy.

Reanimator wrote:Perhaps people try and put baneblades into SM armies and not thunderhawks into ig list because SM do not have anything like the abundance of superheavies that guard do.

And aren't supposed to...

If they needed such, Thunderhawks fulfill the role a Baneblade would and more.

. Besides, why does cost have anything to with it?

Primarily because most people only bring this up because they can't afford an appropriate unit but desperately want a Superheavy so try and hamfist a Baneblade in. They require far less monetary and time investment than something that actually fits.

Would you object more or less if he bought a phantom Titan and stuck an Aquila on it?

Yes.

Vaktathi wrote:

Reanimator wrote:Perhaps people try and put baneblades into SM armies and not thunderhawks into ig list because SM do not have anything like the abundance of superheavies that guard do.

And aren't supposed to...

If they needed such, Thunderhawks fulfill the role a Baneblade would and more.

. Besides, why does cost have anything to with it?

Primarily because most people only bring this up because they can't afford an appropriate unit but desperately want a Superheavy so try and hamfist a Baneblade in. They require far less monetary and time investment than something that actually fits.

Would you object more or less if he bought a phantom Titan and stuck an Aquila on it?

Yes.

Nice answer to the question

This kind of snobbish behaviour is just sad really. A superheavy is used in an Apoc game where everything goes. If someone wants to add a Baneblade/Fellbalde to their MEQ force then why not let them. And if they can come up with some piece of fluff on their own then cudos to them. Grey Knights have the dread knight, Im sure they have some other stuff tucked away from the Mechanicus as well...

Ok, this cost thing that has been raised is begin to grate somewhat. Simply stating a trend you have observed and then attributing it to the OP is unfair in the light of his explicit denial. It is your assumption, not a fact, and not reasonable to keep using it as one in a discussion about the OP's intentions.

As for the fluffiness of SM chapters, let alone GK having baneblades, well perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. What is unfair however, is not respecting someone else's differing opinion on the fluff, and then subsequently using it to hold onto a misjudgement of their character. Disagree by all means, explain and discuss, but using said disagreement to cast aspersions on someone's motive is a step too far, and certainly not what the OP was inviting when he posted the idea.

I would say atleast 1000p for that upgrade.... since its probably me that is gonna face this thing..... : )

I for one don't think a Baneblade is a good fit or makes sense for Grey Knight use in terms of fluff for many reasons, but I think that point has been covered already.

If 'Fellblades' are allegedly priced at about 600pts (reasonable), then making the GK version somewhere around 700-750 to have fortitude/psy-ammo. Personally, I'd just go with 750pts to play it safe, as Fortitude is a huge boon for such a vehicle.

Imma make another post here, it makes much more sense for a bunch of IG to be joining your gk.

And if you really want your army to be all gk... then you really shouldn't have a baneblade.