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2011/09/08 21:21:00
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
...Yet you only see white man between 30 and 40 on the battlefields of the 41st millenium. Why aren't the models more varying, and why does nobody seem to paint any humans in a different skin color than white? (exept salamanders). How does fluff work togerther with the miniatures here? I remember having read that the IG does consist of all kinds of humans (young, old, male, female, and i guess that not all humans in the universe are white). What are your thoughts? I'll be starting IG soon, and Im gonna take care that every composition of gender, age and color will be represented. My Igs are gonna be Space Pirates, so they have to look different and unorganised anyway...)
Automatically Appended Next Post: damm wrong forum. mods, please move it. thanks
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/08 21:23:24
Maybe GW doesn't want to make, Hmm, I'd say... 8 sets for each section of an already massive army. You have Tallarn, Mordian, Armageddon, DKoK, Cadian, Catachan, Vallhallan, and the Elysian. We're covered. And if you really want to put a chick in your army, go buy a conversion set.
Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats.
2011/09/08 21:28:19
Subject: Re:Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
That's why all my guardsmen have helmets and gas-masks, in addition to the fact that I hate painting faces. Can't tell if it's a man, woman, teenager, geezer, latino, caucasian, asian, indian, african, arab, etc, underneath all that kit, armor, coat, boots, mask and helmet.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2011/09/08 21:34:32
Subject: Re:Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Heya and welcome to the Imperial Guard!
Well there are a few answers to this I guess... But the one I'm giving you is simply that you are probably looking at Cadian models. Cadia's population is apparently what we consider caucasian and seems to have a policy of only sending men of 25 years and older into combat, while the rest of the population either works to sustain the planet or is still in training. This would be my explanation (not sure if this is correct according to fluff, people with more knowledge are welcome to correct me^^), another would be to say that the different designs for younger or female soldiers might not have appeeled to a broader group of customers, was not considerd during production or was to complicated/expensive.
But(!) not every regiment is cadian. There are a variety of models out there that at least show different cultures. Vostroyans and Valhallans are sort of a russian/eastern european type if I'm not mistaken, Catachans are just Rambo and gang from the first predator movie, the Death Corps and the lads from Armageddon are kind of a WW1 (german?) inspired army which might aswell consist of woman and yougnster because they all wear masks and unless you exagerate a lot when it comes to physique you can't really tell the difference under the armour any way , Elysians are just plain bad-ass and I'm sure there's a bunch of other regiments out there with different cultural inspirations. + there's always greenstuff and your imagination if you are handy^^
hope that helps
PS: The cadian meatshield guys should technically be kids, but I guess GW won't make extra units that barely differentiate from the already existing model for a unit nobody uses anyway^^
PPS: I actually painted many of my Cadian soldiers with a darker skin colour and it looks alright
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2011/09/08 22:05:57
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Age and gender depends on the regiment and its homeworld culture. Some will be mono-gendered, some will only have white people - it's not outright "wrong". Will there be mixed regiments? Yes. Will there be regiments that may consist entirely of women or people of darker skin colours (Arabs, blacks)? Again yes. In case of the Arabs we even have special minis for them (Tallarn Desert Raiders).
Now, why don't we see more varied skin colours in GW drawings and miniatures? Simple. When it comes to "everyday random folks", many artists commonly only draw people that look like themselves, unless they consciously choose to be more open and actively remind themselves that there ought to be others.
There's no bias behind it, it's just a typically human flaw.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/08 22:06:43
2011/09/08 22:26:03
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
I know a guy who had a 'barebones' squad of catachins to grant cover saves. Thier platoon was 'operation human shield' and they had brown skin.... it was evil
2011/09/08 22:28:36
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Lynata wrote:Age and gender depends on the regiment and its homeworld culture. Some will be mono-gendered, some will only have white people - it's not outright "wrong". Will there be mixed regiments? Yes. Will there be regiments that may consist entirely of women or people of darker skin colours (Arabs, blacks)? Again yes. In case of the Arabs we even have special minis for them (Tallarn Desert Raiders).
Now, why don't we see more varied skin colours in GW drawings and miniatures? Simple. When it comes to "everyday random folks", many artists commonly only draw people that look like themselves, unless they consciously choose to be more open and actively remind themselves that there ought to be others.
There's no bias behind it, it's just a typically human flaw.
Actually, Tallarns are not Arabs. They're "Lawrence of Arabia" types, that is, Britons in the Middle East.
2011/09/08 22:35:31
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Alkasyn wrote:Actually, Tallarns are not Arabs. They're "Lawrence of Arabia" types, that is, Britons in the Middle East.
I'll take your word on it. The skin colour on their minis must have fooled me.
It's the names that fooled me. Al'Rahem doesn't exactly scream "British" to me.
Also the Desert Raiders book clearly intends for them to be Arab-esque but I suppose you can pretty much pick and choose what you want to be canon from Black Library.
2011/09/08 23:39:26
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Alkasyn wrote:Actually, Tallarns are not Arabs. They're "Lawrence of Arabia" types, that is, Britons in the Middle East.
It's slightly more complicated than that; Al'rahem is both at once. He is a Tallarn, and, judging from his name and appearance, a (for want of a better term) space-Arab; he does his Lawrence of Arabia bit leading the natives in the Emperor's name against their warp-touched rulers (presumably the space-Ottomans) on a different world, Thoth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/09 11:52:22
Red Hunters: 2000 points Grey Knights: 2000 points Black Legion: 600 points and counting
2011/09/08 23:52:41
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
My Penal legion are all either black or Irish (pasty white and ranger), with one asian dude, and the custodian is a Mordian Captain model painted to look like a British redcoat.
If you're THAT worried about the lack of race representation in tabletop gaming, paint your own army that way. Dark flesh is good for black skn, and elf flesh+heavy devlan mud wash is good for asian skin.
When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.
- Cain.
2011/09/09 00:13:12
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
After reading the Tallarn entry in the 2E IG Codex, I have to say they "sound" a lot like Arabs - at least regarding how their planet ended up looking like 1.000 years after the virus bombardment, and how the Tallarn coped with it (constructing sheltered settlements in desert domes and within caves, building vapour traps etc).
Al'rahem pulls off his "Lawrence of Arabia" on another planet - Thoth, as the English Assassin has mentioned. But you could say he himself and his men are still space Arabs.
Also, /tiphat to that cool-sounding Penal Legion, papathrax
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/09 00:13:32
2011/09/09 01:11:51
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
You can always paint your army however you want, white, black, asain etc
But when you look at it (ie fluff and cannon) the common foot soldiers (unless Catachan) are always white men as well with their officers. However, specialists sometimes tend to be female (sniper, recon, sanctioned pysker) and commissars for some reason are either pale white or black. If you want to know why there aren't any asians just look at the Adpetus Mechanicus (ok, sorry for the bad/half-racist joke)
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Obliterators: They've got a gun for that.
2011/09/09 02:12:25
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Because making the standard/average/most common makes the most sense for a model kit. It's a simple matter of slightly converting them.
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2011/09/09 06:40:17
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Vaktathi wrote:That's why all my guardsmen have helmets and gas-masks, in addition to the fact that I hate painting faces. Can't tell if it's a man, woman, teenager, geezer, latino, caucasian, asian, indian, african, arab, etc, underneath all that kit, armor, coat, boots, mask and helmet.
Same here
2011/09/10 09:34:50
Subject: Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
MrMerlin wrote:...Yet you only see white man between 30 and 40 on the battlefields of the 41st millenium. Why aren't the models more varying, and why does nobody seem to paint any humans in a different skin color than white? (exept salamanders). How does fluff work togerther with the miniatures here? I remember having read that the IG does consist of all kinds of humans (young, old, male, female, and i guess that not all humans in the universe are white). What are your thoughts? I'll be starting IG soon, and Im gonna take care that every composition of gender, age and color will be represented. My Igs are gonna be Space Pirates, so they have to look different and unorganised anyway...)
A quick look on the Painting blogs will show that alot of IG players have mixed race armies (all you need is paint).
But it depends on the theme of an army:
a Tallarn army will be 'arabic'
an army based of a Micheal Cane WW2 film will be all white
etc
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2011/09/10 13:56:12
Subject: Re:Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Well, from what I could tell, the Cadian population are caucasian and slavic, they have full regiments of women but rarely combine them within the same regiment (bad for discipline. pls, no outraged calling of chauvanism, i dont writ IG regs). the female soldiers would look very similar to the male soldiers when in full BDU's and body armour. that and they probably cut their hair short too.
Catachans are of mixed race, but from what i can tell they dont include any women in the ranks.
Mordians are nominaly caucasian, though it could be an evolutionary mutation due to growing up for several generations withought sunlight. there is no reason to think that there arent female regiments either.
no-one knows what race or gender are the steel legions or DKoK (its the gas masks), though i think the DKoK are probably nth generation germans.
Vostroyans are all male and slavic (firstborn sons).
Valhalans are of mixed gender and slavic.
Tallarns are Middle-eastern or eastern mediteranian, have no idea about gender bias.
Elysians are just parratroopers, no other data available.
Attilans are Mongols or Huns, probably all male.
as for the psykers, they tend to be pale or pasty because they tend to be insomniacs because of the bad dreams, no sleep = looks unhealthy.
as for my Cadians, I'm converting up some female models (i've got a combined regiment).
on the other hand, the "one-species" pollicy of the Imperium could lead to ethnic cleansing. just imagine a racist inquisitor could declare that black skin or almond shaped eyes were a sign of warp taint
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2nd/283rd Cadian Infantry "Black coats" - 5500pnts and growing
2011/09/10 15:06:07
Subject: Re:Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?
Commissar Typhus wrote:other stuff..... and commissars for some reason are either pale white or black.
This is very possibly because so many of the regiments are 'white' that it's an easy way to distinguish your off-worlder commissar.
MrMerlin wrote:Yet you only see white man between 30 and 40 on the battlefields of the 41st millenium.
I wouldn't say the models are all 30 or 40. In the Gaunt's Ghosts books, this is the case, but then by the end of the run they've been on constant campaign for fifteen years or so. The models just seem to represent well-built males. They could be 18 or 40, depending on health and the health of the culture in general. On worlds with a harsher culture and greater physical strains, it's quite possible that people in their 20s could look like what we see as 40 year olds....
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MrMerlin wrote:...Yet you only see white man between 30 and 40 on the battlefields of the 41st millenium. Why aren't the models more varying, and why does nobody seem to paint any humans in a different skin color than white? (exept salamanders). How does fluff work togerther with the miniatures here? I remember having read that the IG does consist of all kinds of humans (young, old, male, female, and i guess that not all humans in the universe are white). What are your thoughts? I'll be starting IG soon, and Im gonna take care that every composition of gender, age and color will be represented. My Igs are gonna be Space Pirates, so they have to look different and unorganised anyway...)
Planets tend to have people of the same shade of skin on them because people will gravitate towards the Temperate climates, no one will live in a Desert by choice when they can live in a nice temperate zone. so a particular Guard regiment will usually have people of the same skin color.
as for why there arn't any Female models, its because GW hasn't sculpted any plastic female Cadians. And, given GWs track record with Female sculpts, you don't want them to.
there are many companies out there that make Female soldier conversion kits for this purpose if you so desire.
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Grey Templar wrote:
Planets tend to have people of the same shade of skin on them because people will gravitate towards the Temperate climates, no one will live in a Desert by choice when they can live in a nice temperate zone. so a particular Guard regiment will usually have people of the same skin color.
i have to disagree with that; lets look at this planet called earth (or terra). I mean all the different kinds of people in question on this thread come from one and one only planet. They simply spread out during the countless milenia, and i guess if there is a planet in 40k wich has been populated for some thousands of years, people will live on every corner of it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: hmm somehow i got my post mixed into the quoute....?
Automatically Appended Next Post: wtf?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/10 18:40:45
Grey Templar wrote:as for why there arn't any Female models, its because GW hasn't sculpted any plastic female Cadians. And, given GWs track record with Female sculpts, you don't want them to.
ACtually I kinda do, GW is getting better. Used to be that GW models were pretty hideous, but they're looking better every time a codex is released.
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2011/09/10 20:50:47
Subject: Re:Isn't the Imperial Guard supposed to be put together from people of different age and gender?