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The Tau badly need an update to 5Edify their rules. What ideas would make them worthwhile without losing the flavor they already have?

Here are some ideas I've got:


Fire Warriors - I made the minimum squad size standard, instead of a cost per model, and I dropped the base cost per warrior, then gave a couple of free upgrades to make them like almost every other codex out there. I also gave them the ability to bring some heavier weapons to the squad without breaking Tau fluff (Fire Warriors don't carry the good guns). Shas'els are already Crisis Pilots, so I gave them the option to do that.

50 points: Fire Warrior squad:
4 Fire Warrior Shas'la
1 Fire Warrior Shas'el
Wargear: Pulse Rifles
Shas'el has a Markerlight

Upgrades:
May add up to 7 more Fire Warriors at +8 points per model
Free - Switch a Pulse Carbine for a Pulse Rifle
+25 - Upgrade the Shas'el to a Crisis Suit Shas'el. A Fire Warrior unit with a Crisis Suit Shas'el can no longer board a transport vehicle.
+2 points per model - Equip the squad with EMP Grenades (use Haywire Grenade rules from Dark Eldar)
(other wargear costs unchanged)


Despite Crisis Suits being considered competitive, they are still more expensive all said and done than comparable Elite options in other codexes, so I upped the base cost to give them some basic weapons (at a reduced price compared to currently) and gave them the option to upgrade weapons to everything currently evailable.

Crisis Suits: 40 points per model, 1-6 models per squad
Wargear: 1 Burst Cannon
1 Missile Launcher
Hard-wired Multi-tracker

Upgrades:
Free - Switch any weapon for a Flamer
+10 - Each Crisis Suit in the squad may take a single Drone of any type (Gun, Shield, Markerlight)
May switch the Burst Cannon for the following:
+5 - Missile Launcher, Fusion Gun
+10 - Plasma Rifle, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector
May switch Missile Launcher for the following:
Free - Burst Cannon, Fusion Gun
+10 - Plasma Rifle, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector
(other wargear costs unchanged)


Devilfish are way too expensive as-is, so i dropped them down in cost. Since they don't have fire points or open tops, they have way less firepower than anything else out there as well. I made a fairly radical change and am basically combining the Devilfish and Hammerhead, though the Devilfish with a turret still has less armor than a real Hammerhead.

Devilfish - 50 points
Wargear - 2x Burst Cannons
1x Networked Markerlight (held by Tank Commander in top hatch)

Upgrades:
+50 points - Replace Networked Markerlight with a Railgun (slug or submunition)
+15 points - Replace Networked Markerlight with an Ion Cannon
Free - Replace 2x Burst Cannons with 2x Gun Drones
Free - Replace 2x Burst Cannons with Smart Missile System
(other wargear costs unchanged)


Stealth suits have no purpose as things stand. They can't be seen from far away, but they have to get close to do anything. And likewise, Rail Rifles are only available to a couple of weak units, and not the supposedly elite battlesuits. Stealth Suits should naturally be snipers, so I gave them the option. I also made a makeover option to turn them into tank hunters and skirmishers. They will still get owned in assault, but there's at least a chance of escaping with hit and run to keep being annoying.

Stealth Suits - 25 points per model, toughness raised to 4, initiative raised to 4

Wargear/Abilities - 1x Rail Rifle (Tau Jet Packs altered to give true relentless to its jump infantry)
Stealth Armor (includes cloaking generator and Stealth USR)
Scout
Infiltrate

Upgrades -
+10 points per model - Replace Rail Rifle with Fusion Blaster, Melta Bombs, and Shield Generator. The Stealth Team also gains the Hit & Run USR.

So not to be mean but crisis suits are almost definitely not going to be squad upgrades. Think of it this way, it would completely ruin BOTH a Firewarrior squad and the Crisis suit attached.

Also think of the fact that Tau are Eldar lite. Their squads are specialized and only really do the one thing. The strength of a crisis suit is that it can be given any equipment but its almost always better to equip the who squad the same or differently but for the same task. The Tau way of war is to keep Fire warriors and Crisis suits separate. And they'll probably stay that way. Also, Tau say that mixing weapons in a fire warrior squad is a bad idea and that they won't do it. (They may change the fluff about them but until they do, no special or heavy weapons)

Additionally, every 5th ed vehicle got a roughly 15 - 20pt drop and included some small upgrades. Smoke, searchlight (Usually) A devil fish being 50pts probably isn't going to happen especially with MORE weapons and equipment. Not to mention the fact that it would require a new model.

More likely we're going to see a 60-65 point devilfish that includes a Blacksun filter as standard. I do like the markerlight upgrade, I could see that happening. Once again, the upgrades you state would require a new pack or a different kit entirely, that's happened very rarely in GW history and I don't think they're going to change the basic Hull configuration of Tau vehicles. (They're awesome, there's a reason Wave serpents and Falcons haven't been upgraded in nearly 20 years)

The Stealthsuits will probably drop in points to 25 or 22. They're not going to drop AND get better. The basic Tau I is 2. Only Commanders have I4. Basic guys aren't going to get it unless all the suits get a stat overhaul. Which would lead to a points INCREASE or at least, them staying the same points and getting better. (Only Grey hunters have been blessed with that in the new edition and I can't image they're going to share the love with an Xenos)

The problem with stealth suits isn't that they're useless, it's that their function is muddled by having anti-infantry weapons with an anti-tank option. Plus their stealth field only really makes them good for Markerlight platforms. (When markerlights come down in price it'll make this option more viable.) Giving them a Flamer option and/or a Fusion is still doable. The current rumor mill seems to suggest that they'll get a missile pod upgrade as well. That would make them damned near invincible if that's true.

RIght now a Chimera at 55 points is almost strictly better than a Devilfish at 80. Skimmer rules aren't nearly as advantageous as they were in 4E, and compared to Chimeras, fish have no fire points, shorter ranged and less powerful guns, and have no standard upgrades. Of all the transports in 40k, Devilfish are definitely the weakest.

Changing them to a new configuration wouldn't be hard, Devilfish and Hammerheads already use the same hull with a different top piece - a hatch with a commander for the fish, and a turret with a big gun for the hammerhead. Using a Devilfish with a railgun would be as simple as putting the hammerhead turret on and switching the drone weapons and nosecone weapons.

I don't see where in the fluff or crunch a Crisis suit wouldn't be a legitimate upgrade for Fire Warrior Shas'ui. Without special weapons options or a useful transport, Fire Warrior troops would stay as useless as they are now. If you want to invent new man-portable special weapons for Tau, I guess that's fine, but it makes more sense to me to stick what the Tau already have into their squads. Their doctrine isn't about unit composition, it's about what each soldier's job is.

As far as stealth suits, I only upped the I to make hit and run possible. At I2, they might as well not have the ability. Striking at I4 still won't make them good at CC. And without a new weapon choice or a dramatic reworking of the stealth field rules, they will still be equipped wrong for whatever hypothetical role they fill. Either make the stealth field help at close range, or give them long range weapons so it actually matters that they can't be shot at from far away.

The strength of the Chimera isn't its weapons. A heavy bolter and stubber aren't really any more than a Burst cannon and SMS. The strength of them comes from the Vets inside with 3 meltaguns, a lascannon and a Demo charge. Tau have no such upgrades and probably won't get them. The fire point issue is moot.

DE Raiders are what? 65 points? Armour 10, open topped, no tank rule.

How would you tell the difference between a Devilfish with an Ion cannon and a hammerhead with a Ion cannon? They would look identical.

Yes, each soldiers job is different. Fire warriors do not do that same job as Crisis suits, they wouldn't mix with each other. S5 AP5 guns are great. The problem comes from them having expensive per unit cost and transports. Space Marines got about 50 points cheaper per tac squad. DE got a little cheaper and much more effective. A points drop to base ten with defensive grenades and a built in Shas'el is right about where they should be. Putting a crisis suit in a firewarrior squad is almost like putting a dreadnaught in a tac squad. It helps neither and decreases the effectiveness of both.

Stealth suits are I3 I think, making hit and run half and half. Upping their I to 4 for no other reason isn't something that I see GW doing in their design. Sisters Seraphim HAD I4 and hit and run, in the new codex they kept hit and run and dropped to I3. Why? Because every other sister is I3, making them I4 for no reason other than hit and run was deemed unrealistic. I also don't imagine they're going to get hit and run, not at base anyway. It would have to be an upgrade. Once again, cheaper AND better has only happened ONCE. (Twice, sorry. Grey hunters and Sisters Seraphim - if you're me and think the new rules are great and not Mellissa who hates everything about everything)

My point about raiders and chimeras is that their guns are better. A Tau army already has dozens of 30" S5 AP5 shots, why would they want 5-7 more with short range? And Raiders are fast to boot. The Devilfish can stay crappy, but if it does, make it as cheap as the innocuous Rhino.

You have a point about the Hammerhead. Maybe force the Devilfish to keep the nose-mounted burst cannon, and only allow the drones/SMS upgrade? The nosecone would be different between hammerheads and Devilfish in that case.

I'm not totally adamant about Crisis suits mixing in with fire warriors, but the troops need to be able to contribute meaningfully to the army from a game design perspective. And that means being able to pop transports and being able to hurt MEQ either with volume of fire or quality of fire. A hybrid tank/transport baseline would help with that, but so would burying special weapons platforms in blobs of infantry.

I find your lack of faith in the warfish disturbing...It is a great transport once you upgrade it. Sure its expensive at 120 pts for a warfish, but you have a 4+ cover if anything is over 12", you have a total of 7 S5 AP5 shots, 4 of which ignore cover and do not require line of sight. And you can make it a fast vehicle...If you use the fish of fury tactic you can rapid fire 24 shots + 4 from the SMS leaving your firewarriors safe to get back in next turn.

As far as you think crisis suits are expensive? They are by far one of the cheap elite squads, a deathrain squad is somthing around 144 pts for all 3, fireknife squad is 186 for all 3...

Stealthsuits arn't terrible, right now you're just a terrible tau player if you don't use all 3 elite slots full of crisis suits...thats just the way it is. And unless they buff some other elite choice in the next dex, its the way its going to stay.

Mixing a crisis suit with firewarriors is like they said a bad mix. You now have to foot slog at a blisstering 6 in a turn a 12 man squad, oh and your crisis suits assault move? useless.

FoF is not a very good tactic. For the sake of argument, let's say that you had a squad of 10 naked tactical marines at the perfect distance. You move, shoot the fish, and rapid fire pulse rifles. That's 31 pulses it's, half of which hit. 2/3 of those wound, which is about 10. So you are looking at killing maybe 3-4 of the weakest MEQ before the rest shoot and charge, most likely wiping out your whole squad. You will never kill enough of anything with a FoF burst to justify exposing your troops like that. Tau have great anti-vehicle with Broadsides and Hammerheads, but that still leaves all of your other FOC choices hoping that your heavy support can stop your opponent's vehicles so they can do something. God forbid anything happens to those HS units... If you use big FW squads in warfish, there easily goes 500-750 points in troops that can't assault, can't kill vehicles, and have to focus fire to even kill infantry. I can't think of another Codex where litrally nothing in the troops FOC slot is capable of beating a 4+ armor save or getting a power weapon. That is a drastic deficiency that goes beyond bad strategy.

I do think those Crisis Suit point costs are high, even when you economize them with the minimum upgrades. 186 points is still 62 per model, for a unit with no invuln save, 3+ armor, and a good chance of failing morale if a single one bites it to shooting. And in return you get autocannons and plasma rifles, the two middle ground guns that aren't great at killing vehicles and are just okay at killing infantry. Don't get me wrong, Crisis Suits are good, but they are a lot of points for what they do and how fragile they are, and even then they can't be expanded into a shooting death star with lots of models. They also have awkward point costs that I hate.

I find your lack of faith in the warfish disturbing...It is a great transport once you upgrade it. Sure its expensive at 120 pts for a warfish, but you have a 4+ cover if anything is over 12", you have a total of 7 S5 AP5 shots, 4 of which ignore cover and do not require line of sight. And you can make it a fast vehicle...If you use the fish of fury tactic you can rapid fire 24 shots + 4 from the SMS leaving your firewarriors safe to get back in next turn.

Having used the Warfish many times and given it many chances to prove itself, I can say that I much prefer the regular fish with just dpods.

A Warfish is an overpriced upgrade to an already overpriced transport, the 4 shots you say ignore cover only do so if it's intervening; a unit with at least half its models in area terrain, or that are obscured due to wargear or a special rule, will still get their cover saves; there's also the fact that you're unlikely to find anything with a 5+ armour save that isn't inside a transport or area terrain.

You also cannot make the Devilfish a fast vehicle. You can allow it to shoot as if it were fast using a multi-tracker, but it doesn't make it fast. There's also the fact that you only get your aforementioned 7 S5 shots if you're within 18" of an enemy; anything out of LoS gets 4, and anything greater than 18" away gets 4; if you're within 18", then you're endangering an expensive and very useful transport unless you can ensure that what you're shooting at will die, and there's nothing in range that can take you out.

If you use the FoF tactic, yes you get X amount of S5 AP5 shots (discount the fact you're only BS3, so if anything 12 hit and against MEQs, about 8 wound, which means you're killing 2-3 marines, which seems pretty fine until you realise you spent 240pts to do it. You'll kill more T3 units and 5+ save units who aren't in cover, but they're often cheaper than marines, making it even less worth it.

Next turn, the remaining 7-8 marines simply move 6 and assault your fire warriors. FoF lost its impact when LoS could not be drawn beneath skimmers anymore, so now you have to kill the squad you're shooting, or you lose your FWs to the inevitable charge next turn. You're better off sticking them in a Cheapfish and saving them for the last-second objective claims/contests that 2/3 games will require.

I also disagree with your sentiment that Crisis Suits are cheap elites. If we got weapons as standard, yes, they'd be cheaper, but as you displayed yourself, 144pts for a Deathrain squad (it would actually be more, 3 Suits with just TL Pods are 129pts, nevermind the 3rd hard-point) that has less survivability than a terminator... Having a 3+ AS and the requirement to buy an invulnerable save for 15/20/30pts so you don't get krak-missiled down does not do them any favours. Terminators can laugh off AP3 krak missiles and Battlecannons, whereas Crisis Suits fall to them like flies...

The problem with the warfish is the 4th ed transport cost. A new devilfish will probably drop to around 60ish. Then upgrading won't be too bad.

Giving them more turret weapon pod options is probably doable, railrifles seem the best choice of the weapons available now.

Once again, the problem with FW and FoF is the 4th ed pricing. If each unit were 45-55 pts cheaper including a fully upgraded transport, you're not looking at something too bad there.

Giving them EMP grenades is a great way for FW to deal with vehicles too.

Crisis suits also suffer from 4th ed pricing and 5th ed 'true line of sight.' No trees to hide behind anymore to make them invincible. Most likely we're looking at an over all points drop for almost every unit along with more options built in. Including suits probably dropping to 20 base or staying 25 and being BS4 with a multi tracker.

Stealth suits will probably get a Force Org shift. Probably Fast attack with a commander that lets them hold objectives.

Same thing with Pathfinders, they may even become troops.

Here's something I was fething around with

http://anjetto.deviantart.com/art/Tau-codex-258703063

Emperor awfulness wrote:FoF is not a very good tactic. For the sake of argument, let's say that you had a squad of 10 naked tactical marines at the perfect distance. You move, shoot the fish, and rapid fire pulse rifles. That's 31 pulses it's, half of which hit. 2/3 of those wound, which is about 10. So you are looking at killing maybe 3-4 of the weakest MEQ before the rest shoot and charge, most likely wiping out your whole squad. You will never kill enough of anything with a FoF burst to justify exposing your troops like that.

Since we're brainstorming ideas for the whole codex, why don't we try improving the Fire Warrior. I think it's a given that Pulse Carbines should be assault2, and to strike a difference between the two guns, pulse rifles should be made heavy2. Also, the introduction of a light suit from the XV2 series to work between crisis suits and fire warriors that fit in the Fast Attack slot would be nice.

Also, I think kroot deserve at least a 6+ save upgradeable to 5+.

Finally, has anyone heard any news about the codex?

Pulse Rifles going to heavy 2 defeats the purpose of a fluid shooting army. Tau are meant to be able to rapidly re-deploy whilst laying down devastating fire, having the core unit forced to bunker up in order to shoot is the exact opposite of how the Tau fight.

If anything, they should become heavy 2 when they're not moving, and assault 1 when they are, to represent how they lay down fire whilst on the move. It's fiddly, but no one type can really portray the fighting style. Either that or allow them to fire on the move with a -BS modifier, but 40k isn't known for its modifiers outside of combat-forced morale checks.

Other than points drops and including grenades I don't see a real way to improve firewarriors. Having a heavy basic weapon on a fast moving strike force is not a good idea.

We may as well give assault marines heavy bolters while we're at it.

Also, if you FoF right the enemy won't be able to charge you. That's the point of FoF

Thanks to TLoS, the only way you can stop chargers is ploking a JSJ unit in front of your fire warriors. Since you need to be within charge range to rapid fire, and you need to actually visibly see the unit, it means they can also see you in their next turn, and move 6" and assault 6" into you.

How can you rapid fire an enemy and prevent them from charging without firing under a skimmer as was the old way?

Making pulse rifles heavy weapons would be a bummer, I agree. What about making carbines assault 2, 30”, and giving pulse rifles the rail rifle stat line? If thousand sons can have MEQ killer guns, why not Tau?

My skimmers have flight stands. I've never not been able to have the two squads rapid fire from behind two Devilfish, it's still not a great tactic to be sure but it's better than nothing.

Carbines are short-barreled weapons, and are usually used in close-quarter engagements; giving them 30" range goes against the idea of a carbine. 18" Is fine for me, but the statline needs to be more impressive; 'assault 2, pinning' works fine for me, especially since leadership tests aren't all that hard to pass in an edition where everyone and their dog has decent leadership or a way of overcoming it if it's low.

I can't recall any time where my pathfinder carbines have pinned anything (although it isn't often that I use them above markerlights), similarly so with gun drones. It'd also make gun drones a little more useful; even twin-linked, BS2 on a 1-shot weapon isn't appealing to start with, but deep-striking 6-8 Drones and blasting a squad with 12-16 shots is nothing to sneeze at; it's also the least they deserve for their cost.

I think heavy2 pulse rifles are fine. If someone wanted to use a mobile Devilfish mounted army, they could just use carbines. 18" also keeps you out of charge range. Heavy2 is meant to be used on static troops, eg Fire Warriors on an objective. And just because that 5th edition is a fast-moving mech edition, doesn't mean that gun line or hybrid type lists that have static elements don't have their uses.

Heavy 2 would be fine, as long as it was better then S5 AP5. Like you said, a gunline is in character for Tau, as long as it isn't suicide

I'm all for R36" S6 basic guns to bring the Tau back on top when it comes to shooting, but I'm hesitant to give them AP3 as well.

Also, some things I forgot to mention.

-Pathfinders should have infiltrate and stealth there scouts after all.

-Stingwings need to be cheaper, have rending and some kind of change to their gun. Either make it 18" or assault2. Or give the squad the option to upgrade a character or two to carry a template version of the weapon.

-Each army has some special gimmick that makes them special, IG w/ orders, DE w/ pain tokens, Sisters w/ Acts of Faith. The Tau have markerlights. Currently however, they aren't used as often because they are either, a) too expensive, (marker drones), b) too vulnerable, (Pathfinders), or c) just plain bad. (Fire Warriors) Markerlights should have 2 firing modes, R36 Heavy1 and R12/18" assault1.

-Unless a new unit source of infantry level heavy weapons arises, Seeker Missiles should get a bigger role. Cheaper, more types(Sky Ray exclusive?), an override that lets multiple missiles to be called down on one markerlight hit(might have to reduce BS from BS5.)

-And ethereals should be removed entirely, unlike Imperial Religious figures, they don't go walking around with a force field around their necks and carry chainsaws on them. If they do keep them, perhaps some psychic defense ability would be nice, not sure how to justify it with the fluff though.

If Marker drones got a point drop and became relentless that would solve most of markerlights problems.

Pathfinders should have SCOUT and Stealth. They're scouts. haha. Maybe give them something that prevents enemy infiltration and/or deepstrike around them.

A firestorm missile could be cool, instead of a seeker missile.

S5 AP4/5, Blast, ignore cover saves.

Stingwings going up to Assault 2 is probably a sure thing. Also, allowing Stingwings access to technology that makes suit deepstriking never miss, like a locater beacon and the like. Or ones that make enemy deep strike worse.

Also, Tau gunline is not their character. Its not how they fight in the codex or any of the (2) books they are featured in. Tau way of war is mounted and fast moving combat, sitting around isn't what they do.

It may be how WE/OTHERS use them but its not their character. Mech'd up and moving is the way they are portrayed in the fluff. (Usually, they're adaptable)

acekevin8412 wrote:I'm all for R36" S6 basic guns to bring the Tau back on top when it comes to shooting, but I'm hesitant to give them AP3 as well.

Also, some things I forgot to mention.

-Pathfinders should have infiltrate and stealth there scouts after all.

-Stingwings need to be cheaper, have rending and some kind of change to their gun. Either make it 18" or assault2. Or give the squad the option to upgrade a character or two to carry a template version of the weapon.

-Each army has some special gimmick that makes them special, IG w/ orders, DE w/ pain tokens, Sisters w/ Acts of Faith. The Tau have markerlights. Currently however, they aren't used as often because they are either, a) too expensive, (marker drones), b) too vulnerable, (Pathfinders), or c) just plain bad. (Fire Warriors) Markerlights should have 2 firing modes, R36 Heavy1 and R12/18" assault1.

-Unless a new unit source of infantry level heavy weapons arises, Seeker Missiles should get a bigger role. Cheaper, more types(Sky Ray exclusive?), an override that lets multiple missiles to be called down on one markerlight hit(might have to reduce BS from BS5.)

-And ethereals should be removed entirely, unlike Imperial Religious figures, they don't go walking around with a force field around their necks and carry chainsaws on them. If they do keep them, perhaps some psychic defense ability would be nice, not sure how to justify it with the fluff though.

I agree with all of this, and maybe some more. Vespid Stingwing super chars, like the Krootox or Kroot Hounds. Those would be awesome.

Markerlights do need the upgrade, but screw the Heavy version. There's no reason why it shouldn't be assault.

Ethereals, I generally like. Sure, they suck competitively, but the idea is there, and with some tweaking, it has some potential. As for psychic defense, none of the Tau have a psychic presence in the warp. So, instead of psychic powers, they should have Anti-Psychic powers, just to mess with other races.

I can see them getting their Kroot character back, a special power that allows them to take an all Kroot force.

Plus the inclusion of the veteran Kroot squads and maybe a Knarlock herd in the fast attack section, wouldn't be too bad an army.

I would like to see power Weapons/ Power fists in Kroot Squads, like in the old Kroot Merc codex.

High Shaper Seti 175pts

Seti WS5 BS4 S4 T3 W3 I5 A4 LD10 SV 4+

Composition: 1 Seti

Unit type: Infantry

Wargear:
High Shaman’s Staff

Special rules:
Unique
Stealth
Infiltrate
Worthy of respect
Master of the hunt
Independent character

High Shaman’s Staff: A two handed ‘Witch blade’ that ignores armour saves. Additionally it contains a rare artifact passed down from the elders. It’s a shooting weapon with the following profile:

Range: Template S:4 AP:3 Type: Poison (4+)One-shot

Worthy of respect: Removes the 1+ requirement on Fire Warriors and Crisis suit commanders.

Master of the hunt: Before the game starts nominate a piece of terrain. Seti and a Kroot Carnivore squad he leads may arrive from reserve in that terrain as long as they are at least 1'' from all enemy units. They may act normal the turn they arrive as if they had walked on from the board edge.

Veteran Kroot squad 85pts

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Kroot WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W1 I3 A1 LD07 SV6+
Shaper WS4 BS3 S4 T3 W3 I3 A3 LD08 SV6+
Hounds WS4 BS0 S4 T3 W1 I5 A2 LD07 SV-
Krootox WS4 BS3 S6 T3 W3 I3 A3 LD07 SV6+

Composition: 1 Shaper and 9 Kroot

Unit type: Infantry (Krootox Relentless)

Wargear:
Kroot rifle
Kroot gun
Claws and teeth (Hounds - 1 CC weapon)

Special rules:
Infiltrate
Stealth
Move through cover
Rending (Hounds)
On your heels (Hounds)

Options:

May take up to 10 hounds…………… +06pts/ model
Up to 3 Krootox riders………………… +30pts/ model
Krootox may exchange Kroot gun for:
Heavy flamer.......................................................Free
Twin-linked burst cannon................................ +10pts

The squad MUST select one of the following:

Hunterkin………………………………................. Free
Stalkerkin………………………………............. +15pts
Headhunterkin………………………………..... +20pts
Vulturekin..…………………………….............. +25pts

Additionally, any Squad may take:
Hyperactive Nymune organ……………………+15pts

The Shaper may replace his Kroot rifle for:
Flamer………………………………..................... Free
Pulse carbine/Rifle...........................................+05pts
Shaman’s staff.................................................+15pts
AND take either an:
Orbital drop beacon.........................................+10pts
OR Sensor echo beacon................................ +15pts

On your heels: If an enemy squad loses close combat to a squad containing hounds and escapes they take a S4 AP- hit on a 4+ for each hound the squad contains.

Hunters: The unit trades its Kroot rifles for hunting rifles at no additional cost.

Hunting rifles:
Range:36’’ S:X AP:3 Type:Heavy 1/ Sniper

Stalkers: The unit replaces ‘Stealth’ with ‘Improved stealth’ and gains the ‘Night vision/acute senses’ and ‘Scout’ USRs but may not purchase Krootox.

Headhunters: The units Kroot rifles and Kroot guns become: Poisoned (4+) in shooting AND close combat. Additionally, up to two members of the squad may replace their rifles for Forest strippers for 20pts each.

Forest strippers: See ‘Eviscerator’

Vultures: The unit becomes jump infantry and gains the ‘Skilled flier’ and ‘Hit and run’ USRs but may not purchase Krootox or Kroot hounds.

Shaman’s staff: A two-handed ‘Witchblade’

Orbital Drop beacon: Friendly units entering play via deep strike within 12’’ do not scatter.

Sensor echo beacon: Enemy units entering play via deep strike within 12’’ must re-roll successful scatter rolls.

Kroot rifle: A black powder weapon. Counts as two weapons in close combat.

I see eviserators and witchblades being more their thing.

acekevin8412 wrote:I think heavy2 pulse rifles are fine. If someone wanted to use a mobile Devilfish mounted army, they could just use carbines. 18" also keeps you out of charge range. Heavy2 is meant to be used on static troops, eg Fire Warriors on an objective. And just because that 5th edition is a fast-moving mech edition, doesn't mean that gun line or hybrid type lists that have static elements don't have their uses.

You're looking at it purely from a gaming perspective, it needs to be true to fluff too, and that fluff says that Tau don't tend to bunker down and stay in one place; they lay traps and use their rapid redeployment ability to lure enemies in, and they pull troops back under covering fire when the enemy gets too close. Bunkering is the last thing Tau want to do when you take into account that they are vastly inept at close-quarters fighting; letting the enemy come to you is all well and good so long as you're constantly moving away from them, to let the enemy get close to you as Tau is suicide.

Tau do rarely dig in, but it should be noted that the vast majority of Tau settlements are not fortified unless it is under the direst of circumstances, they prefer mobile warfare as noted in the codex. They might well create gunlines, but they'll rarely be rigid.

Heavy 2 might be great in the game, but so are S10 AP1 bolters, however the fluff doesn't support that; to represent Tau, they have to be shown to possess fluidity, and handing them 18" guns to try and satisfy that is not enough.

Just gonna put I'm my 2 cents.
Tau are awful. Just no other way to go about it. They have only one good thing (Railguns) and FoF is now outdated.
GW even struggled with the Tau example army in the rulebook. It doesn't matter how good laying down 30 marker lights is on paper, because Tau just don't preform out of lack of durability.
So, either GW just makes them a tan IG army, or they grow some balls and rework the codex entirely. For example, if they want to make them a fluid army, then they just become a less effective mix of IG and Eldar, being T3 and shooty, with no armour/psycic powers to help compensate. Thus the only course of action is to change the way Tau are played.
I could go on and suggest endless ideas for improving the codex, but short of massive point decrease or the like Tau are going to remain bad until a new codex. Really, if your looking for a better army with the same models and are unwilling to wait for GW (I would be), just start from scratch and redesign everything.

BTWs, this all is under the assumption that GW isn't going to just make them rediculous and impossible i.e Gray Knights.

BTWs, this all is under the assumption that GW isn't going to just make them rediculous and impossible i.e Gray Knights.

Tau are actually pretty effective against GKs. The downside of our 'quality over quantity' type of shooting is offset somewhat by the fact that GKs are a small and elite army, and there's also the fact that they can't duct tape storm shields onto everything. With our plasma facing at best a wall of 2+/5++, it makes everything a lot easier, especially since (IIRC) those 2+/5++ are about as costly as their 2+/3++ Codex: SM brethren.

The killing power of GKs in CC isn't an issue, since we die in CC anyway; they're paying for their fancy halberds and whatnot in an all-comers army, and it doesn't matter what they use against us, they're essentially paying for unnecessary overkill.

The only really worrying things are Psyriflemen that can instagib our battlesuits (but still, railgun>psyrifleman) and possibly Dreadknight spam if they manage to remove our railguns quickly enough.

Whilst we don't have the firepower of IG, able to throw dice at things until they die, we do have good quality shooting, and that is only made better by the fact we have to kill less models.

Kroot also make a good impact here, thanks to GK's only reasonable shooting capabilities. Stick a unit of Kroot in 4+ cover area terrain and walk them out in front of anything that comes past. Oh no, your expensive silver space marines killed my 70pt unit...

A good amount of psychic powers aren't all that effective either; quicksilver and hammerhand are pointless, and they're the only two I know by name; any other powers are anti-psyker (look, no psykers!) or probably don't do much.

I don't think Grey Knights aren't impossible. I've never lost a game to them since they've come out. I've tabled them 3 times with eldar. Tied twice with Tau (Very difficult) Beaten them very handily a few times with my Blood angels and beaten them twice with my Sisters. The only two times Ive gotten to use the sisters' new codex.

That being said. They need to make Tau really tricky and very good at shooting. (Obviously) A lot of wargear options that does a lot of different things and the ability to take almost all of it. Tau can turn into toys over boys really, really quickly and should stay that way in my opinion.

Avatar 720 wrote:You're looking at it purely from a gaming perspective, it needs to be true to fluff too, and that fluff says that Tau don't tend to bunker down and stay in one place; they lay traps and use their rapid redeployment ability to lure enemies in, and they pull troops back under covering fire when the enemy gets too close. Bunkering is the last thing Tau want to do when you take into account that they are vastly inept at close-quarters fighting; letting the enemy come to you is all well and good so long as you're constantly moving away from them, to let the enemy get close to you as Tau is suicide.

Tau do rarely dig in, but it should be noted that the vast majority of Tau settlements are not fortified unless it is under the direst of circumstances, they prefer mobile warfare as noted in the codex. They might well create gunlines, but they'll rarely be rigid.

Heavy 2 might be great in the game, but so are S10 AP1 bolters, however the fluff doesn't support that; to represent Tau, they have to be shown to possess fluidity, and handing them 18" guns to try and satisfy that is not enough.

Like the Codex Astartes, the Tau combat doctrine do has provisions for static warfare, mostly in the form of ambushes. As a result, We need to a hammer, broadsides for armour, Fire Warriors for infantry that can crush the enemy that has been baited by the lure. Therefore, Fire Warriors could be equipped with carbines when on the move and rifles when not.

Pulse Rifles would be better off being Rapid Fire 2 before they ever became Heavy 2.